Group Plans Protests At Apple Stores Over Proposed Tax Breaks

Group Plans Protests At Apple Stores Over Proposed Tax Breaks


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Personally, I'm all for Apple and other US based companies getting a tax break. The US has the highest corporate tax burden in the world which in my opinion stunts growth and output. And that ultimately impacts on we the consumers costing us more in taxes and what we have to pay for the goods we purchase.

The one thing that works well in this country and they want to mess with it.

The problem with taxes isnt that we're not taxed enough. Its that we spend too much.

These clowns are lobbying against free speech. Apple has the same rights any other corp does. They're not breaking any laws and can voice their opinion.

I'm sure the company pays a lot of taxes and has paid the admission price to democracy.

Corporations ought to be tax free. A corporation is nothing more than a paper construct organizing a structure around which a company is built. Taxing money twice, once when it goes to a corp and again when its distributed is an unfair duplication.

Money should never be taxed till it reaches a human hand. When profits are distributed to shareholders in dividends, quite a bit of tax is paid.

We need to start taxing the bottom 60% of this country that pays 0 tax. It doesnt have to be a lot, even 5% would be fine. But as George Carlin once said, pay the admission price like everyone else.

AccessPA said:

We need to start taxing the bottom 60% of this country that pays 0 tax. It doesnt have to be a lot, even 5% would be fine. But as George Carlin once said, pay the admission price like everyone else.

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Wow, that's one of the most incorrect statements I've seen posted here in awhile. Care to cite the factual statistic for that?

Don't forget to look up the stats on how few corporations actually pay taxes or pay anywhere near what they could be paying...same for that upper 40% that you claim pays so much tax.

There's a huge difference between what the tax rate actually is and what the actual percentage of tax actually ends up getting paid. Usually it's the corporations and top 40% that can afford the fancy tax accountants to get that number way down from where it actually started.

I would agree that on paper the tax rates in the US are somewhat higher than they could be. However in practice, to lower them would mean shutting a bunch of loopholes and deductions so ultimately about the same would be paid either way. It's all a shell game.

schweb said:

Wow, that's one of the most incorrect statements I've seen posted here in awhile. Care to cite the factual statistic for that?

Don't forget to look up the stats on how few corporations actually pay taxes or pay anywhere near what they could be paying...same for that upper 40% that you claim pays so much tax.

There's a huge difference between what the tax rate actually is and what the actual percentage of tax actually ends up getting paid. Usually it's the corporations and top 40% that can afford the fancy tax accountants to get that number way down from where it actually started.

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Why don't you post the statistical evidence you say indicates Im wrong?

AccessPA said:

Why don't you post the statistical evidence you say indicates Im wrong?

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I'm under no obligation to prove you're right, that's your job so let's not play that game.

Usually, IMHO, people who pull that kind of comment know they can't back it up.

But for starters, here's a chart that shows the actual effective tax rate paid over time. This is real data, would love to hear you feel the actual data shows 60% of Americans pay no tax:

schweb said:

I'm under no obligation to prove you're right, that's your job so let's not play that game.

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You made a baseless, unsubstantiated statement. We're talking about YOU proving YOUR point.

AccessPA said:

You made a baseless, unsubstantiated statement. We're talking about YOU proving YOUR point.

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Uh....

Let's go back to you post. Can you prove what you said or are you going to continue to deflect?

AccessPA said:

The 0% Tax Rate Solution - WSJ.com

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You may want to read the actual article, no where does it say that 60% of Americans pay no taxes. They may pay less than the rich, which the article points out as some kind of egregious problem, but they also make a whole lot less than those very rich people the article is defending so mathematically it makes sense.

But when you look at taxes as a percentage of disposable income, the poor certainly hurt a lot more from taxes than that upper percentage.

Income inequality in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

BTW, that WSJ article is actually an Opinion article which doesn't require it to back up factually what it's saying and is written with an agenda. So take that with a grain of salt.

So again I ask, can you back up your statement that 60% of Americans pay no taxes with actual data, not opinions?

schweb said:

You may want to read the actual article, no where does it say that 60% of Americans pay no taxes.

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Re-read before posting authoritatively challenged publicly authored wikipeda. CBO is a bit more reliable.

Long before President Barack Obama took office, the bottom 40% of income earners paid no federal income taxes. Because of refundable income tax credits like the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC), in 2006 these bottom 40% as a group actually received net payments equal to 3.6% of total income tax revenues, according to the latest Congressional Budget Office data. The actual middle class, the middle 20% of income earners, pay only 4.4% of total federal income tax revenues. That means the bottom 60% together pay less than 1% of income tax revenues.

AccessPA said:

Re-read before posting authoritatively challenged publicly authored wikipeda. CBO is a bit more reliable.

Long before President Barack Obama took office, the bottom 40% of income earners paid no federal income taxes. Because of refundable income tax credits like the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC), in 2006 these bottom 40% as a group actually received net payments equal to 3.6% of total income tax revenues, according to the latest Congressional Budget Office data. The actual middle class, the middle 20% of income earners, pay only 4.4% of total federal income tax revenues. That means the bottom 60% together pay less than 1% of income tax revenues.

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So how does that statement say 60% of American's pay no taxes? It doesn't.

So let's go back to the chart I posted above (which comes from actual IRS government data) which clearly shows your statement is false.

So again I ask, can you show some proof in your statement that 60% of Americans pay no taxes?

schweb said:

So how does that statement say 60% of American's pay no taxes? It doesn't.

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If you want to trifle, it says less than 1%. Statistically zero. Not exactly a burden, and that enforced by transfer payments like EITC. The source is the CBO, take it up with them.

Well ok, if we're going to play fast a loose with stats, no point in arguing since I could make up anything I wanted also.

You can continue this argument of falsehoods on your own.

schweb said:

Well ok, if we're going to play fast a loose with stats,

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I'm not playing fast and loose with anything. I said, if you have a problem with the Congressional Budget Office, take it up with them. That's where the figures come from, not me. It appears to be your agenda that's playing fast and loose. And good luck with that.

AccessPA said:

Money should never be taxed till it reaches a human hand. When profits are distributed to shareholders in dividends, quite a bit of tax is paid.

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As far as I'm aware, corporations in the United States are juristic people so legally, it could be argued that they have a hand.

AccessPA said:

We need to start taxing the bottom 60% of this country that pays 0 tax. It doesnt have to be a lot, even 5% would be fine. But as George Carlin once said, pay the admission price like everyone else.

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I'm going to guess that you're not in the bottom 60%.

AccessPA said:

I'm not playing fast and loose with anything. I said, if you have a problem with the Congressional Budget Office, take it up with them. That's where the figures come from, not me. It appears to be your agenda that's playing fast and loose. And good luck with that.

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You're making stats say things they don't, you making assumptions regarding the data that isn't supported by the data.

No where does any of the actual data, even in your opinion article, back up your assertion that 60% of Americans pay no taxes. You've shown a complete unwillingness to admit you're wrong even when the data is staring you right in the face.

There's no point in arguing against rhetoric since you can't change the mind of someone who's not open to the truth.

vansmith said:

As far as I'm aware, corporations in the United States are juristic people so legally, it could be argued that they have a hand.

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Thats the current false construct. They do not live and breath. They profit zero and are simply a holding tank till profits are disbursed to an actual human with a pulse.

vansmith said:

I'm going to guess that you're not in the bottom 60%.

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At the current moment, I am, and in the low tide of the failed Obama administration's strangled wasteland of an economy. Even tech isn't doing well. Before "change" came, I worked a lot more.

I've been on both sides of the fence and had stellar years too. Where ever I am doenst change the math or the facts on the ground, nor my opinion of things. A free ride might seem nice till you see the net damage of accumulated freeloaders and the amassed debt of the country. Even if I was making 24k a year, 5% wouldnt be too much to ask, then again i never felt entitled to other peoples labor, the fruits of that labor or their stuff.

AccessPA said:

Thats the current false construct. They do not live and breath. They profit zero and are simply a holding tank till profits are disbursed to an actual human with a pulse.

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Well you may want to talk to your conservative buddies in Congress and the courts who have said that Corporations are indeed "people" under US law with all the rights thereof. So once again, in this case you are incorrect.

At the current moment, I am, and in the low tide of the failed Obama administration's strangled wasteland of an economy. Even tech isn't doing well. Before "change" came, I worked a lot more.

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Wow, did someone just channel Michelle Bachmann?

In all seriousness, the tone of this comment proves that you aren't interested in a real discussion, but simply are parroting rhetoric back that you've heard elsewhere. Hence why any discussion is pointless.