AT&T tells unofficial tethering users it will upgrade plans

AT&T tells unofficial tethering users it will upgrade plans

AT&T has sent out a second SMS warning to subscribers it believes are illegally tethering their phones, and this one contains a more stern message. The carrier has told these users they will soon be automatically upgraded and billed for its tethering plan, which includes 4GB and raises monthly data plans by $20 to $45. AT&T's basic plans only include on-device Internet access and messaging....

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Automatic renewal? Hah....SO illegal! This won't last long. EVery new policy requires approval of your new contract. This is no different.

idrinorbarsaku said:

Automatic renewal? Hah....SO illegal! This won't last long. EVery new policy requires approval of your new contract. This is no different.

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Actually that's not true. This isn't core to the contract, data is considered an add-on service. Same way that when they change the price of SMS messages it doesn't void a contract.

They can always opt-out of the tethering plan, but they'll also need to stop the illegal tethering or it will be added back on. Their not forced into anything that isn't preventable by a behavioral change.

idrinorbarsaku said:

Automatic renewal? Hah....SO illegal! This won't last long. EVery new policy requires approval of your new contract. This is no different.

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Additionally, AT&T could argue that those illicitly tethering violated the terms of their contract and thus it is within their right to modify as they see fit. I'm sure there's a provision in the contract that states this.

Actually, I just looked all over my contract, and it says nothing about them having the right to modify anything without you approval. There are laws against that to protect the consumer. If this plan was existent at ATT from the get-go, then it would be okay for them to charge the user for "unofficially" using the tethering feature.

How is a data package not a core package when you are required to purchase some sort of plan when activating an iphone? It isn't an add-on service, it is a requirement on the iphone...unless I got it wrong all along, and didn't realize you could get an iphone without a data package.

idrinorbarsaku said:

Actually, I just looked all over my contract, and it says nothing about them having the right to modify anything without you approval. There are laws against that to protect the consumer. If this plan was existent at ATT from the get-go, then it would be okay for them to charge the user for "unofficially" using the tethering feature.

How is a data package not a core package when you are required to purchase some sort of plan when activating an iphone? It isn't an add-on service, it is a requirement on the iphone...unless I got it wrong all along, and didn't realize you could get an iphone without a data package.

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You can't but it is not considered part of AT&Ts core service. The requirement is part of the iPhone "package" you sign up for when you purchase the iPhone.

Just an FYI, IIRC Kash is in Law School and will likely thrive on a legal discussion in relation to this subject.

Carry on.

I wonder how they can tell when a user is tethering... Is it just a matter of noticing the higher volume that they often purport those who tether use?

Shikarnov said:

I wonder how they can tell when a user is tethering... Is it just a matter of noticing the higher volume that they often purport those who tether use?

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Higher volume and type of data. A mobile browser pulls different info than a desktop based one does. If they are looking atyou specifically they can probably tell exactly what browser is being used so if it's not a mobile browser it might be obviouse.

I don't know...I can see the argument going both ways. You can change what they charge you for, but the customer also has a chance to rebuttal.

They can tell:
what type of machine is being used, and whether it's a PPC or Intel Mac, Windows, iPad, iPhone, etc.
what OS and version - whether that's 10.3, 10.5, Win 98, Win NT, Win 7, iOS, Android
what browser and version, IE, WebKit, Mozilla...

bobtomay said:

They can tell:
what type of machine is being used, and whether it's a PPC or Intel Mac, Windows, iPad, iPhone, etc.
what OS and version - whether that's 10.3, 10.5, Win 98, Win NT, Win 7, iOS, Android
what browser and version, IE, WebKit, Mozilla...

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My understanding is some tethering options available via Cydia appear to AT&T to simply be the phone's normal connection. I'm interested to see if that is no the case, or if this just affects other apps that are used for tethering.

bobtomay said:

They can tell:
what type of machine is being used, and whether it's a PPC or Intel Mac, Windows, iPad, iPhone, etc.
what OS and version - whether that's 10.3, 10.5, Win 98, Win NT, Win 7, iOS, Android
what browser and version, IE, WebKit, Mozilla...

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Wow, if they can see all of that then I don't see how anybody gets away with tethering.

I was thinking about jailbreaking my iphone 4 just for the free tethering because I thought it'd be super useful, but I really haven't been in a situation where I've needed it yet so I've stayed away from doing it. Anything I would need to look at on my laptop I can just look at on my iphone.

On a political note: I have to wonder when the lawyers are going to start challenging AT&T's tethering cost. I mean, the water company couldn't charge you more per gallon if you decided to fill your pool instead of bathe your toddler. Contracts be dammed, this just isn't right.

Personally, I don't think they should be able to force charge for it. IMHO You should be able to use your phone and its data package for whatever you want. Whether you're using data via software on the phone itself or through the phone to a computer.

I just don't think that any phone company should be able to double charge you for a service (like data) - and that's how I see what a tethering package is (especially if you're a long standing customer that still has unlimited data - assuming they haven't found a way to rip that away from existing customers)..

It's not like you get better service with the tethering package and the only reason why they are doing this now is because the new iOS HAS a tethering feature in it vs before when it didn't and they couldn't attempt to force it on you. If they had in the past threatened to block or throttle data usage based upon if they believe you to be tethering, I could see how they could justify this easily, but the only reason they are doing it now is because they want to force you to buy their product even if it isn't really worth it (IMHO).

I mean, the water company couldn't charge you more per gallon if you decided to fill your pool instead of bathe your toddler.

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I can tell you don't live in Texas!

chscag said:

I can tell you don't live in Texas!

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Or Southern California!

Nethfel said:

Personally, I don't think they should be able to force charge for it. IMHO You should be able to use your phone and its data package for whatever you want. Whether you're using data via software on the phone itself or through the phone to a computer.

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So they shouldn't be able to charge you to use a network that they build and they own? Really? What about when your "use for whatever you want" causes others bandwidth to slow to a crawl, is that ok? What if your the one being slowed to the crawl and download that all important e-mail? Would that be ok, or would you whine that their data is too slow and complain to them about it? Simple fact is, and this may be a shocker to some of you the pipe is only so bi, as it throughput. It doesn't matter if it's AT&T, Verizon, Sprint, T-Mo, Boost, ComCast, TimeWarner or whoever's pipe, there is always a limit of some kind and those who hog more limit others. I see no issue with making people pay for data and even tethering. If you want to use it, you have to pay. Period.

If it's that big of a deal, you can always find a carrier that gives you every thing that you want....somewhere...

baggss said:

So they shouldn't be able to charge you to use a network that they build and they own? Really? What about when your "use for whatever you want" causes others bandwidth to slow to a crawl, is that ok? What if your the one being slowed to the crawl and download that all important e-mail?

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How would charging you extra help? I don't see how it would. Either way, a person who is using the data, will get to it, but will now have to pay something for it. That guy trying to get to that important email has nothing to do with what is going on now, when all ATT is doing is charging you extra to use that same amount of data. Am I not getting something here? The only thing I can see happening is that the high cost of the tethering would deter users from even using that data.

If you don't like the rules, build and support your own cell network. Then you can make the rules whatever you want.

For better or worse, it's AT&T's network, they can do whatever they want. If you don't like it, choose another carrier, but you can't whine and complain about AT&T's rules and then stick around and keep paying them. Just doesn't make sense. Nor does it make sense to say they shouldn't be allowed to set their own network's rules.

idrinorbarsaku said:

How would charging you extra help? I don't see how it would. Either way, a person who is using the data, will get to it, but will now have to pay something for it. That guy trying to get to that important email has nothing to do with what is going on now, when all ATT is doing is charging you extra to use that same amount of data. Am I not getting something here? The only thing I can see happening is that the high cost of the tethering would deter users from even using that data.

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I suppose it depends on where the money goes but in theory some of it goes to improve infrastructure to help make the pipe bigger and/or increase bandwidth. In AT&Ts case I can tell you that has happened in the last few years, so I'd think more would go into the new 4G system coming on line. If it deters enough people then they'll maybe consider lowering prices or revising policies for data (this has happened fairly recently with both AT&T and Verizon letting some users back on unlimited data).

That e-mail scenario has a lot to do what happening now. If enough folks tether illegally it bring the network throughput down in the local area of the high use and other users wwho are paying for legal use may suffer as a result. The people trying to use a large amount of bandwidth, the more widespread the network slowdown becomes until everyone loses.

Bottom line is, if you want to use you are gonna have to pay. If AT&T (or any other prover for that matter) slaps illicit/illegal users with a bill they don't have to pay. That's what lawsuits are for. It IS their network.

schweb said:

If you don't like the rules, build and support your own cell network. Then you can make the rules whatever you want.

For better or worse, it's AT&T's network, they can do whatever they want. If you don't like it, choose another carrier, but you can't whine and complain about AT&T's rules and then stick around and keep paying them. Just doesn't make sense. Nor does it make sense to say they shouldn't be allowed to set their own network's rules.

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That.

baggss said:

So they shouldn't be able to charge you to use a network that they build and they own?

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Well, they're already charging me for 2gb of data a month. I bought it. Whether I want to use it on my iphone or my laptop is (arguably) besides the point. Nobody is asking to use the pipe for free. We're just asking to use the resources we paid for.
I think that's a legitimate thing to whine about.

Also, Texas and Southern California up-charge you for using more than a certain amount of water to fill your pool. That's not a fair analogy for wanting to use the amount of data you already purchased, just on another device.

That analogy would be something like: If you didn't bath for a month and used that same amount of water saved to fill up that much of your pool.
The water company wouldn't charge you more that month because you didn't use anymore water than you normally do, you just used your same amount to fill different things.

If you don't like the rules, build and support your own cell network. Then you can make the rules whatever you want.

For better or worse, it's AT&T's network, they can do whatever they want. If you don't like it, choose another carrier, but you can't whine and complain about AT&T's rules and then stick around and keep paying them. Just doesn't make sense. Nor does it make sense to say they shouldn't be allowed to set their own network's rules.

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Man, Apple people love this argument and think its a show stopper for some reason.
That's super simplistic and unrealistic. Customer feedback, politics, and PR change company policies. Shutup and bend over is kinda childish, and is not how the corporate environment works by and large. Instructing people that silence or boycot are their only 2 choices is bad advice.