how to make folders listed first

i have a directory that has a bunch of pdfs and some sub directorys with pdfs in them. how do i make the folders be listed first in osx 10.6. i chose list by kind but the folders still are not listed first.

I know a lot of people that would like to have this functionality when viewing files and folders.
Unfortunately there is no way that the Finder by itself can do this without some hacking, although it can be added with 3 party applications/haxie add-ons.
PathFinder (A complete Finder replacement) or TotalFinder (A haxie add-on for the Finder. This one actually advertises Folders On Top)

There also is this hackish approach, don't attempt it without a HD backup.
Make Finder sort by type with Folders at top

ok its alot more complicated then i thought. i wont be doing much with this since i dont have any backup yet. thanks though for letting me know whats up and its not something simple. thanks again.

McYukon said:

There also is this hackish approach, don't attempt it without a HD backup.
Make Finder sort by type with Folders at top

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Many thanks for that link/tip McYukon (+1 rep!). That's a very simple, quick and (best of all!!!) Effective hack! Can't for the life of me see why Apple don't implement a simple change like this in an OS update!!! Makes so much more sense

You can force things to the top by adding a space at the beginning of the names.

I've never found the need to do this, because the "sort by modification" style already exists, which always keeps the stuff I'm actually actively working on at the top (regardless of whether it's a folder or not). I find this much more useful, ymmv.

RadioSaigon said:

Can't for the life of me see why Apple don't implement a simple change like this in an OS update!!! Makes so much more sense

Click to expand...

Probably because they can't see why anyone would want to do this. It's such a random and nonsensical way to do things.

Oh, right. Windows does it that way. Well, the Mac is lousy at being Windows, and always has been.

I admit that I am catching myself wondering why things aren't done like they are in Windows. Then, usually just before I go hunting down how to do just that, I decide to try the Mac way for a bit. I actually had my first "uh, what do I do" moment in Windows today, and it was quite nice. The folders being mixed in still blows my mind for a second, though.

Well, the other solution, which may not work if there are too many items, is to use Icon View with Snap to Grid. Then you can arrange them in any random order you want to.

Thanks the Totalfinder is superb!!!!

Logic for Folders at top

Separating files from folders is not just a Windows concept. The whole folder/file concept was developed as analogous to a filing cabinet or drawer. If you were filing documents in a drawer you would put them into folders and arrange the folders in alphabetical or some other order that made sense to you. If you had a group of miscellaneous papers you would not intersperse them between these ordered folders because it would be too hard to find the one you are looking for. You would put them in one place (either the front or the back of the drawer (or a Misc Folder which is what top level is to most people.) If you are trying to make something user friendly it should find a good representation in the analog world that helps users understand and pick up the concepts more rapidly. The Filing Cabinet has always help me get people to understand file/folder structure. I've trained a lot of people on both Mac and Windows. This and the one button mouse are two big interface areas where Apple has failed on usability. Thankfully they fixed the mouse. Someday I hope they get this right. JMHO.

beejsf said:

The whole folder/file concept was developed as analogous to a filing cabinet or drawer.

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Nice try, but your justification doesn't hold water.

If you're filing things in the real world, then there is no imposed organization. Like toMACsh noted, this is how the Icon view works: you put files or folders in whatever order makes sense to you, and then they stay where you put them.

List view is inherently an artificial construct. File cabinets don't sort themselves by name or size or any other criteria (unless you have a good assistant.) If I tell my computer I want things sorted by name, then by golly they should be sorted by name--regardless of what kind of item they are. Ask any three-year-old.

Hardly a matter worthy of argument I would have thought... it's simply a matter of personal preference. As must be clear, I personally prefer the folder structure to be at the top of the list; others don't. That's what individual choice is about, and not a matter over which I would scorn anothers preference.

RadioSaigon said:

Hardly a matter worthy of argument I would have thought... it's simply a matter of personal preference. As must be clear, I personally prefer the folder structure to be at the top of the list; others don't. That's what individual choice is about, and not a matter over which I would scorn anothers preference.

Click to expand...

I'm not being scornful of anyone, I'm just pointing out that the reason you (and many, many other people, it must be noted) prefer that particular structure is that you have used Windows for a long time, and have become accustomed to it. It's hard to change what you're used to, I understand that.

In this case, the Mac OS does what makes sense in the naive case. In other words, it does what you'd think it'd do if you'd never used any computer before.

Now, of course, y'all are not naive cases. You've used (Windows) computers before, and gotten used to Windows and the way Windows works. Again, that's perfectly understandable.

Should Apple put in options to accommodate you just because you're used to something else? Maybe, sometimes. But most of the time, "Because I've always done it this way" is not a good enough reason.

You are still being too simplistic technologist -it has little if anything to do with Windows per se.

Long before computers became ubiquitous (yes, I do personally remember such a time) all manner of filing systems used a simple, hierarchical structure that is in many forms -including computers- still in use today. Far from being a "random or nonsensical" system, I'm quite prepared to bet that You use a similar system yourself!!! Alphabetised? Numerical? whatever... the structure isn't really that relevant to anyone beyond the individual or group that needs to consistently interact with it -as long as it makes sense to that individual or that group -it works! It IS a hierarchical structure that meets the individual needs as designed by that particular subset of the population. Translation: individual choice.

With regard the OP of this thread, the question was asked, answered and most have now moved on to more stimulating discussions -as must I, as I believe this thread has moved well beyond any useful discussion.

The organizational structure of the filesystem has nothing to do with the ordering of a list, which is what this discussion is about.

Since you don't seem to grasp the distinction, I can understand your frustration.

Folders and files organization, as someone else told, have no standard. It is so simple... The best tool MUST let the user to decide how to organize it, no matter if it is windows, mac, linux, etc.

I think that Mac could be perfect if it would allow the user to decide how to organize his files. But unfortunately Apple don't want to be perfect, it prefers to be simple different from windows. If Apple would forget windows and include in its os the best it can, it would be REALLY THE BEST. But, it prefers to be simple different instead of the best.

Windows would want to be best but it cannot. Mac easily could be best, but it does not want to be.

How so sad!!!!!

Trolls dredge up 3 year old threads to bash Mac/Apple. Nice try. Doubt if anyone will take the bait.