Apple says, "whoa.. check it out - it really IS all phones."

Apple - Smartphone Antenna Performance

Going as far as pointing out where to death grip their competitors phones to see the results. Drama!

I can even do the same thing with my inexpensive T-Mobile Sony Ericsson phone. If I hold it with the "death grip", the 3G signal dies and I'm left with a flat layer of bars.

Regards.

After Moto took out a full-page ad in the NYT claiming their (Droid was it?) phone CAN'T have this problem (due to dual antennas), Apple quickly proved them WRONG.

What's most interesting to me about all this is that neither these companies nor the media (or Consumer Reports) ever cared about this issue (though of course customers were affected by it) until Apple brought it (inadvertently) to the fore ... double standard much, CR?

The HTC Desire doesn't seem to have the deathgrip problem apparently

I dunno,I have owned a lot of different smart phones, I can tell you the iPhone 4 has a much more serious death grip than any other phone I have owned. I finally had to break down and put a bumper on mine because it would drop so low. I have rarely ever used cases or any form of protection on any of my phones,Like I said never had a problem like this.

If it's unusable for your, you can return it and apparently get that awesome HTC Desire.

schweb said:

If it's unusable for your, you can return it and apparently get that awesome HTC Desire.

Click to expand...

It's not unusable but it is there. Although my friends iPhone 4 doesn't seem to have the problem.


BTW: What's the HTC Desire?

I've kept quiet about this for a long time, I guess because I wanted to see what would happen after a while, what proof there would be in terms of a botched design or not, and what Apple would do etc..

The truth of it is that it absolutely IS a design flaw (and please don't ever say design compromise because that is bologna) which has put Apple in their current position and why they're able to spin their PR machine well enough with giving away free cases.

Sure, you can grip pretty much any phone out there with two hands or find the spot where the level of conductance is highest, and you'll likely be able to degrade the signal's dB level to the point where a bar or two will drop. This isn't the point here though. The point of it all is that the iPhone 4 was designed as such, where the antenna is in the most used and sensitive part of the case, and has the added negative bonus of using the part of a persons palm to bridge the antenna and cause the conductance to degrade the signal far WORSE than any phone normally would.

A case will fix the symptoms, but we ALL know that this too is not the point. I think it's pretty sad that some of our more intelligent and loyal Apple fans here just tend to brush off any possibilities where something isn't up to par and give other's the same old boring: " you don't like it, don't buy it" routine. That borders on being insultingly dismissive as well as being closed minded and in denial of the situation.

Had Apple taken a bit more time, and just put some sort of coating on the phones before shipping them out, this wouldn't even be an issue. ATT's cruddy network only helps to escalate the situation, I'm sure, because it would be logical for phones in an already poor signal area to experience more dropped calls when the phone isn't held "the right way".

And for the record, I can not for the life of me, put any sort of death grip hold on my 3G and get bars to diminish. Nor can I do so on my wife's crappy Palm Centro, nor my friend's 3GS, or my brother in law's Nokia (don't remember the model) or even my Sony Ericsson from 3 years ago. In fact, that thing has better network reception than my 3G. And it's small enough for me to cover the entire phone with one hand. I guess YMMV depending on carrier and proximity to cell towers.

Sad part is, I WAS actually looking forward to getting the iP4 upon returning to the States on Aug 17th, but I'm not even going to bother now. I don't even really care about Verizon at this point either. Interestingly enough, I'm actually looking at Sprint, of all Carriers. The EVO 4G, is mighty good looking with Sprint offering unlimited data plans, and being able to use the phone as a 3g wifi hotspot, I'm pretty sold on that. And I know that Sprint coverage in NY is very good, so not even worried about that either. I'm glad so many people are going with Verizon and ATT because of the iPhone, it just frees up more resources for the smaller guys.

Anyway, maybe I'll join you guys when we see the iP5. Things should be well sorted out by then. Maybe even Facetime over 3 or dare I say, 4G by then ?

Doug

Geez, and I thought you liked the iPhone 4 Doug...so surprised.

Simple solution, just don't buy the phone. But tolling iPhone 4 threads isn't really going to change the mind of the 99.5% of people who are happy with the phone.

Do remember, if the signal where you are doing your "Death Grip" is high, you will not see any loss of signal on the typical display (iPhone 4 included). It's when the signal is low to begin with.

Not saying the iPhone 4 is good or bad, but just pointing out a fact.

section1 said:

I see what your saying, but that comment goes against what Apple are showing in Smartphone Antenna Propaganda Performance skit they have done.

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No, that is not the case. If the signal is high the typical bar display is so saturated you will not see the drop. That does not mean it's not there.

This whole antenna war is about when the iPhone 4 and other phones are in areas where the Cell Signal is low to begin with. That is why there are so many with an iPhone 4 who don't see any drop at all no matter how they hold it.

Read Anandtech's excellent review on the whole antenna issue.

Yes it is a design flaw. But not of the iphone. But of every phone. Wireless signal does not go through your hand/head as well as it does the air. That is fact. And unless you can suspend the phone on a string and use a blue tooth headset so the phone is not near your head you're going to get the death grip no matter what phone you use. Just some phones have it worse then others.

My old non-smart flip phone experiences it. My mates Iphone 1G experiences it. As does the iphone 4's. Nothing you can do about it. Unless you want to design a new phone you don't hold with your hand to use. So this issue that the iphone 4 design is bad is a load of BS. I do not buy it. And I don't like that people are buying into it.

I do agree design in a very important thing in mobile phones. And another question. If every phone has this issue. Which they all do to varying degrees why is this death grip issue only becoming talked about a lot now. I think it has as much to do with a lit more 3G phones out there using a lot more 3G bandwidth. And all of this puts stress on the 3G network and makes the death grip issue a lot worse.

And the above post about the death grip only being an issue where the signal strength is low to begin with sounds rather plausible. I just can't see Apple ever making a product with fully testing it. And I believe they have. Will I get an iphone 4 if I could. Heck yes. Even with all the talk about it. It's still in my opinion the best smart phone in the world.

Apple are not perfect. I think the Apple TV and no still camera on the nano are bad ideas. Mind this is for the 0.5% of people with iphone issues. The other 99.5% have no issues what so ever. Seriously other companies would love to have 99.5% of their customers happy. And only Apple get so much stick for such a small % of unhappy customers. I think that's not a good image for Apple. As it shows that the public think 99.5% is not enough for Apple. They want 100%.

No one is perfect. And I think 99.5% is bloody good. and I'm proud of Apple for it.

the8thark said:

Yes it is a design flaw. But not of the iphone. .

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Actually, not true. I did state that you could reproduce this effect on other phones, but there's more to it than that. The outcome is dependent on a few factors. The biggest one being actual dB level strength in relation to distance from a repeater or cell tower. If you're in strong signal area, it will absolutely be harder to try and degrade a signal with any death grip to the point of where the phone's software will relay that info to the phone and thereby make the numbers of bars drop. Bars dropping is just an warning to before possibly switching over to a different band in order to pick up the slack.

The iP4's antenna may inherently be better than any other previous iteration of iPhone, as well as any other cell phone on the market but.... The problem is that the placement of the antenna (which IS unique to any other phone out there I believe) directly affects the amount of signal degradation because of how much attenuation is taking place. And this is because of how one would normally HOLD the phone. Don't put your fingers near that strip on the bottom, and you're golden. Put tape over that area and you're golden etc etc..

So how is it not a design flaw when you absolutely have to either put tape or a cover on it or just hold it the "right way" when not in an optimal signal area ? Again, other phones are susceptible depending on how you hold them, but the iP4 is just that much more susceptible, and that's all I'm saying.

I've messed around with the iP4 and think it's a great phone otherwise, but people already know how great a device it is. So what was the point of my post then is the question, right ? Honestly, I guess it just irks me a bit when people get ragged on for legitimate claims, and treated like lepers for not accepting denial as a solution. I also don't appreciate the way Steve seems to think that the same people whom have and are making him a wealthy man, deserve to be spoken to like red-headed step children.

Am I not buying the iP4 because of that ? Partially, yes. The other part, people don't really care to hear about though, so I won't bother mentioning it. At least not in an iP4 forum, because that would definitely fulfill the definition of trolling.

Doug

My living-room (literally JUST my living room) has always ben a spotty AT&T zone. The tower is about 1/4 mile from me but my living-room is in a shadow zone for that tower. I can make this issue happen on my 3G using the grip of death, always have been able to. Until a few weeks ago it didn't have a name, now it does. The iP 4 may have issues, but it really does depend on the signal strength from the tower(s).

The specimen I was sent had better call clarity than any of the cellular phones I've owned when the signal strength was high. It was very impressive really, especially in high wind and on the factory floor. Unfortunately, it's also the only phone I have ever owned that I was able to completely sever data and voice connectivity, simply by a change of hand position. I have been able to reduce the displayed signal bars on my iPhone 3G and some friends "other brand" AT&T cellular phones as shown in the videos. It's kind of a fun parlor trick, and a good way to knock someone down a peg when they give you poop about your Apple product -vs- their RIM or Android product. Petty, but fun. However, the display of bars, which I've always maintained was a relative guesstimate of signal strength on any phone, was never something I really cared about. I care about dropped calls and dropped data connections. I have never successfully been able to force any other cellular phone to terminate a call, or to interrupt data connectivity to the point there a "server not found" or "no internet connection available" situation occurred. I could do that at will with the iPhone 4 and no bumper. It is a direct result of the external antenna design, and it is easily solved with a bumper. Easy fix.
I would leave it at that, were it not for Apple going on with their videos of every phone dropping bars. I care about dropped connections, not dropped virtual bars. What I would be interested in seeing on Apple's video site, would be the same tests, but with the FCC or similar data transfer app running on each device when the "grip" is applied. I would be interested in knowing whether any/all uncased phones completely sever connectivity when a specific finger sized area (any external surface will do, I'm not picky) is touched. I'd also like to see all the phones in similar cases run the test, and see to what trickle the data stream slows down to.

Doug b said:

I've kept quiet about this for a long time, I guess because I wanted to see what would happen after a while, what proof there would be in terms of a botched design or not, and what Apple would do etc..

The truth of it is that it absolutely IS a design flaw (and please don't ever say design compromise because that is bologna) which has put Apple in their current position and why they're able to spin their PR machine well enough with giving away free cases.

Click to expand...

Don't you have something better to do than gripe about a phone that you don't own, presumably have never used, and are basically relying on media hype? I got my wife one, and yeah... it attenuates the signal if you hold it in that spot, to the point we can lose the signal (in our living room in particular). A case stops it, and from every technical report I've read, we can expect it to actually lead to improved reception over any other phone out there. Interestingly, since resetting the network settings and getting a new SIM card (she started getting the NO SIM error after a few days), she actually gets an extra bar now AND we cannot make it drop a call any more in our living room.

This whole matter is way blown out of proportion. Yes... Apple probably could and should have done more to insulate it. A case solves it either way, and serves to protect the device more than any manufacturing solution would have. Apple is giving out cases for free, so basically anyone who is still griping about this is either simply upset that they are not getting the color or style they want for free, or are upset that they can't have a case-free phone in areas of poor reception. That really just boils down to vanity. Boo flippin' hoo. Just pretend Apple fixed this in advance and glued a Bumper to the outside of the iPhone 4 before releasing it. Just stop crying about it already.

This issue sure has drawn a lot of internet scientists out of the woodwork.

Put me in the "blown way out of proportion" camp. It is a fantastic phone.

tiger roach said:

This issue sure has drawn a lot of internet scientists out of the woodwork.

Put me in the "blown way out of proportion" camp. It is a fantastic phone.

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I agree with you on both parts, But it does have a real antenna problem I can deal with it, I'm waiting on my free bumper.

bargsbeer said:

I agree with you on both parts, But it does have a real antenna problem I can deal with it, I'm waiting on my free bumper.

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It does have a real antenna problem as does every other smart phone on the market today.
The only difference is Apple admitted there is a problem and tried to fix it. The other phone makers just deny the entire issue.

the8thark said:

It does have a real antenna problem as does every other smart phone on the market today.
The only difference is Apple admitted there is a problem and tried to fix it. The other phone makers just deny the entire issue.

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I agree most other smartphones do and I have owned many smartphones, The iPhone antenna issue is real. It hasn't caused me to loose any more calls than I normally do but you see plain as day when you grab the phone the bars drop and flat line, I never get no service error. It always works, But lets not pretend this is the exact same issue all phones have. Fortunately for me At&t coverage where I live is excellent I'm pleased with their service.