Is Apple becoming Microsoft

Chris H. · Aug 13, 2010

Village Idiot said:
And any one that says Microsoft is a crappy company needs to take a look at how long they've been successful and say that again. A crappy company would have folded a long time ago.

Microsoft, while a decent company in what market it currently has a stranglehold on, makes subpar products. Or as you would say, "crappy".

I say this because, despite their overall domination with Windows, and with Office, its two main successful products aside from gaming consoles- they have failed in just about everything else.

Because of Apple, Microsoft lost the phone market (there is far more in-depth with this than initially appears here). Apple simply created a better user experience. If Microsoft continues with the internal battles that have plagued it, especially with a CEO who cannot make up his mind, yes they will eventually fold.

While I'm at it, let's look at Windows. Despite the malware that exists for Windows, some of which forced Microsoft to take matters into its own hands, people still continue to buy it- why? The average Joe consumer won't know any better- the PC is their focus, and they will choose to run Windows on subpar hardware, and spend about $200 on anti-whatever software- let's not forget the licensing hassle. Don't forget that when Vista came out, many beginning XP users were left out (which is why many first-market netbooks ran Windows XP). Is Windows a subpar product? In some ways yes, in some ways no. Therein lies the differences that make Windows a choice for the consumer.

Tell me I'm complaining- really I don't mind. It's usually what I do anyway.

Village Idiot · Aug 13, 2010

Chris H. said:
Microsoft, while a decent company in what market it currently has a stranglehold on, makes subpar products. Or as you would say, "crappy".

I say this because, despite their overall domination with Windows, and with Office, its two main successful products aside from gaming consoles- they have failed in just about everything else.

Because of Apple, Microsoft lost the phone market (there is far more in-depth with this than initially appears here). Apple simply created a better user experience. If Microsoft continues with the internal battles that have plagued it, especially with a CEO who cannot make up his mind, yes they will eventually fold.

While I'm at it, let's look at Windows. Despite the malware that exists for Windows, some of which forced Microsoft to take matters into its own hands, people still continue to buy it- why? The average Joe consumer won't know any better- the PC is their focus, and they will choose to run Windows on subpar hardware, and spend about $200 on anti-whatever software- let's not forget the licensing hassle. Don't forget that when Vista came out, many beginning XP users were left out (which is why many first-market netbooks ran Windows XP). Is Windows a subpar product? In some ways yes, in some ways no. Therein lies the differences that make Windows a choice for the consumer.

Tell me I'm complaining- really I don't mind. It's usually what I do anyway.

And MS has been around for how long and been successful even though there's all those issues and complaints? A lesser company would have folded long ago.

baggss · Aug 13, 2010

MS is a half-decent company that, as of late, has had an issue with their crappy products. Don't confuse the two.

Sonicjet · Aug 13, 2010

..You know there once was a servey,it showed what factors best infulence an consumers purchase....it listed price then brand about 4 or 5 down was performance another 2 or 3 got you to build quality...that is why most consumers buy MS,it's because people buy with their wallet,not their brain.
If people were to buy Quality,then performance you would find that everyone would own either a Linux or Apple machine.

baggss · Aug 13, 2010

Sonicjet said:
..You know there once was a servey,it showed what factors best infulence an consumers purchase....it listed price then brand about 4 or 5 down was performance another 2 or 3 got you to build quality...that is why most consumers buy MS,it's because people buy with their wallet,not their brain.
If people were to buy Quality,then performance you would find that everyone would own either a Linux or Apple machine.

I'd love to see the source on that.....

Village Idiot · Aug 15, 2010

Sonicjet said:
..You know there once was a servey,it showed what factors best infulence an consumers purchase....it listed price then brand about 4 or 5 down was performance another 2 or 3 got you to build quality...that is why most consumers buy MS,it's because people buy with their wallet,not their brain.
If people were to buy Quality,then performance you would find that everyone would own either a Linux or Apple machine.

People routinely buy Windows OSes for performance rigs.

Gamers? I'm running Windows 7 on a gaming rig. It's faster than most macs and has a GPU with 1.8GB of memory.

B0yB0y · Sep 30, 2010

Its actually the other way around.... Microsoft is trying to become more like Apple.

Apple creates iPod.
Microsoft creates Zune.

Apple creates iTunes.
Microsoft creates Zune Marketplace.

Apple creates iPhone.
Microsoft creates Windows Mobile.

the8thark · Sep 30, 2010

B0yB0y said:
Its actually the other way around.... Microsoft is trying to become more like Apple.

Apple creates iPod.
Microsoft creates Zune.

Apple creates iTunes.
Microsoft creates Zune Marketplace.

Apple creates iPhone.
Microsoft creates Windows Mobile.

But you can spin the thing around the other way too.

MS created MS office
Apple creates iWork

MS put a lot of people into making advertising
Apple later also takes an interest in it's own advertising

MS has people lining up for it's products. (I remember the Win98 midnight launch in Australia, the lines were shown on the news).
And later on Apple has people lining up for it's products

MS created the BSOD
Apple created the SBOD

I think you get my point. Is Apple becoming like MS or the other way round? It can be either, it just depends on which way you spin the facts.

B0yB0y · Sep 30, 2010

the8thark said:
But you can spin the thing around the other way too.

MS created MS office
Apple creates iWork

MS put a lot of people into making advertising
Apple later also takes an interest in it's own advertising

MS has people lining up for it's products. (I remember the Win98 midnight launch in Australia, the lines were shown on the news).
And later on Apple has people lining up for it's products

MS created the BSOD
Apple created the SBOD

I think you get my point. Is Apple becoming like MS or the other way round? It can be either, it just depends on which way you spin the facts.

Yes it does depend on which way you look at the facts but how about this new alleged tablet thats going to be release? The facts go for another spin

ZachUSAman · Sep 30, 2010

As a monopoly? Apple keeps shooting itself in the leg when it puts no usb ports, or locks you into their software. Apple will never catch up to Microsoft in terms of computer market, I mean, Microsoft is what, 90%+ of the computer market, and with such a lead, I hope it stays. given the difference between the platforms, if Apple rises it will lead to a problem you see with the xbox and the ps3, exclusives. Microsoft is fine with Apple doing bootcamp, but what happens if Microsoft tries to pull the same trick?
edit: working in the shadows is fine for Apple now since its got a very small portion of the market, but the issue is growing with itunes, ipods,itouch/itouchjumbo and so forth. If Apple gets a majority, or heck, even 20% of the market, this whole cloak and dagger thing is going to have some serious consequences for them.

ZachUSAman · Sep 30, 2010

B0yB0y said:
Yes it does depend on which way you look at the facts but how about this new alleged tablet thats going to be release? The facts go for another spin

heh, one company lays down the groundwork, people complain, and then another company comes in and makes a device marketed to the people who complain, who then find something else wrong and another company joins in and so forth.

Chris H. · Sep 30, 2010

ZachUSAman said:
As a monopoly? Apple keeps shooting itself in the leg when it puts no usb ports, or locks you into their software. Apple will never catch up to Microsoft in terms of computer market, I mean, Microsoft is what, 90%+ of the computer market, and with such a lead, I hope it stays. given the difference between the platforms, if Apple rises it will lead to a problem you see with the xbox and the ps3, exclusives. Microsoft is fine with Apple doing bootcamp, but what happens if Microsoft tries to pull the same trick?
edit: working in the shadows is fine for Apple now since its got a very small portion of the market, but the issue is growing with itunes, ipods,itouch/itouchjumbo and so forth. If Apple gets a majority, or heck, even 20% of the market, this whole cloak and dagger thing is going to have some serious consequences for them.

One flaw in your argument…you're not considering the fact that Apple may eventually do something about the "problems" you've catalogued here. You can never know what is on the minds of Apple's employees- especially when Steve Jobs is the head honcho.

ZachUSAman · Sep 30, 2010

Chris H. said:
One flaw in your argument…you're not considering the fact that Apple may eventually do something about the "problems" you've catalogued here. You can never know what is on the minds of Apple's employees- especially when Steve Jobs is the head honcho.

true, just going off what we have seen so far though. Apple is very secretive and limiting on terms of user control over their devices, by that I mean usb ports, messing with software, etc.

the8thark · Sep 30, 2010

ZachUSAman said:
true, just going off what we have seen so far though. Apple is very secretive and limiting on terms of user control over their devices, by that I mean usb ports, messing with software, etc.

Agreed. And with all their secrecy and product limitations, Apple is the 2nd most valuable company in the world. Obviously they did something right. Maybe the competitors should follow suit and not make those 'Jack of all trades devices", and make something people actually want to buy.

ZachUSAman · Oct 2, 2010

the8thark said:
Agreed. And with all their secrecy and product limitations, Apple is the 2nd most valuable company in the world. Obviously they did something right. Maybe the competitors should follow suit and not make those 'Jack of all trades devices", and make something people actually want to buy.

second most valuable, but still nothing to Microsoft in the computers. Microsoft is at like 92% of computers, while Apple sits at 7% and linux sits at 1% (they gotta get 1)

Apples big seller is their mobile devices, which nobody has really challenged yet.

and the jack of all trades is something Apple will never be able to do away with.

baggss · Oct 2, 2010

ZachUSAman said:
true, just going off what we have seen so far though. Apple is very secretive and limiting on terms of user control over their devices, by that I mean usb ports, messing with software, etc.

Apple has pretty much ALWAYS been like that, with the exception of the Apple I and II...

ZachUSAman · Oct 2, 2010

baggss said:
Apple has pretty much ALWAYS been like that, with the exception of the Apple I and II...

yea, and in the mobile gadgets area its pretty irrelevant because theres not exactly a lot you can do, but in the computers department its a big issue, and something Apple is going to have to stop doing if they expect to get more of the market.

baggss · Oct 3, 2010

ZachUSAman said:
yea, and in the mobile gadgets area its pretty irrelevant because theres not exactly a lot you can do, but in the computers department its a big issue, and something Apple is going to have to stop doing if they expect to get more of the market.

You're working under the assumption that Apple is actually looking to overtake MS and dominate the market. Statements made by Steve Jobs and other Apple execs makes it pretty clear that they are not specifically working to do that. They obviously want to dominate the mobile and streaming markets (iPod, iPhone, iPad, ATV etc) but not the computer market. The are gleaning Mac growth from their other products and thus really only competing indirectly. They can maintain a 10% market share indefinitely and not have to deal with a lot of the issues MS has.

The secretive part will continue as long as Jobs is the head of the company and probably longer. It's worked so far and I doubt it will hurt them in the long run. If anything it actually helps them. The hype around secret "i-devices" is huge and only pushed their market demand.

ZachUSAman · Oct 5, 2010

baggss said:
They can maintain a 10% market share indefinitely and not have to deal with a lot of the issues MS has.

such as controlling 90% of the market, Perhaps Steve things this is fine, but honestly, nobody is content with just having a tiny slice, they want the whole thing.
and when you design an OS to work with basically any piece of computer hardware, and you let software developers have free reign over apps, combine that with 90%+ of the computer market you'd be lying if you said you had no issues.

osxx · Oct 5, 2010

Apple is gaining in the computer market because of the iPod,iPad and iPhone making people want to try it and see if the computing experience is easier and just as productive
without most of the maintenance hassles.