Macbook pro refresh and USB 3.0

Hello all i'm currently a PC user and am looking into purchasing a Macbook Pro and i need some advice. Just the two questions from the title approximately when will the next refresh of Macbook pros happen and with the new refresh is there a possibility of the new line utilizing USB 3.0?

No one knows for sure, this is the best one can do ↓
Mac Buyer's Guide: Know When to Buy Your Mac, iPod or iPhone

Man...no rest for the wicked. They just refreshed the pros, and people are already asking for new ones.

I'd say that USB 3.0 would be a long shot, given apple's reluctance to adopt new technology.

SweetCosmicPope said:

I'd say that USB 3.0 would be a long shot, given apple's reluctance to adopt new technology.

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Huh? Apple is usually at the forefront of pushing new technology and removing old technology. They're just selective about that technology they push.

As for USB 3.0, I agree that it won't happen. This is especially true because there are almost no devices out there that even utilize USB 3.0.

schweb said:

They're just selective about that technology they push.

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Probably a better way to sum up what I said.

I wouldn't look for apple to usher this in, though. Just like with Blu-ray, they're waiting on it to be established before they put their money behind it.

IIRC, apple supported zip drives. If that's correct, we see where that went.

SweetCosmicPope said:

Probably a better way to sum up what I said.

I wouldn't look for apple to usher this in, though. Just like with Blu-ray, they're waiting on it to be established before they put their money behind it.

IIRC, apple supported zip drives. If that's correct, we see where that went.

Click to expand...

Apple arguably also lead the pack in dropping the floppy and pushing WiFi in all their devices. And we see where that went.

I'm not so sure Apple cares about USB 3.0 (and honestly doesn't seem very many companies are honestly), they're more invested in this:
Exclusive: Apple dictated Light Peak creation to Intel, could begin migration from other standards as early as 2010 -- Engadget

Light Peak, IMHO, is a better solution for the long run.

I certainly agree that Apple many times pushes the envelope when it comes to new technologies & trying new things (just ask me to show you my collection of video/monitor adapters sometime)...I'm sure we could come up with quite a list of new or old technologies that Apple has lead the way in dropping or pushing.

I bet that there's a lot of folks out there wishing Apple would include Blue-Ray drives soon.

- Nick

pigoo3 said:

.I bet that there's a lot of folks out there wishing Apple would include Blue-Ray drives soon.

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Eh, I'm iffy on Blu-Ray. I agree with Jobs on this one, I think the future is streaming, not Blu-Ray. Look at all the new TVs and other mobile devices that are already streaming video.

I view Blu-Ray more as a passing fad eventually to fade to a niche market a la laser disk. Especially since the mainstream at this point is ok with DVD. By the time Blu-Ray gets to the point of DVD, streaming video will be so far beyond it.

I'd venture to say, though, that in general it's a hard sell to switch to a new transfer standard. You have to convince manufacturers that it's worth their while (i.e. a benefit to consumers who will buy it), which for most people, aside from power users, it isn't.

I like the idea of light peak, though.

schweb said:

Eh, I'm iffy on Blu-Ray. I agree with Jobs on this one, I think the future is streaming, not Blu-Ray. Look at all the new TVs and other mobile devices that are already streaming video.

I view Blu-Ray more as a passing fad eventually to fade to a niche market. Especially since the mainstream at this point is ok with DVD. By the time Blu-Ray gets to the point of DVD, streaming video will be so far beyond it.

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I disagree. There are always going to be collectors and film aficionados who don't want to go through the hassle. I think streaming will likely be a mainstay for the foreseeable future, and I imagine it will only get better and more mainstream over the years, but to assume it will kill blu-ray movies is a little far-fetched. And that's glossing over the data storage capabilities.

And before cloud-computing is brought up as a counter, I don't know how long that is going to keep up. It seems to be gaining steam, but personally, and I know many who share this sentiment, I don't appreciate paying a monthly fee to access data that I've already paid for, or to have to keep paying monthly fees when I can spend money to actually own a physical copy of a movie.

SweetCosmicPope said:

I disagree. There are always going to be collectors and film aficionados who don't want to go through the hassle. I think streaming will likely be a mainstay for the foreseeable future, and I imagine it will only get better and more mainstream over the years, but to assume it will kill blu-ray movies is a little far-fetched. And that's glossing over the data storage capabilities.

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You essentially just agreed with what I was saying. Blu-Ray might not disappear, but it won't be mainstream, it will be a niche.

As for storage, you can store more data on a flash drive already than Blu-Ray disks, so that's not really an issue. Give it 2 years and flash drives will be even bigger, cheaper, and more reusable than Blu-Ray storage.

And before cloud-computing is brought up as a counter, I don't know how long that is going to keep up. It seems to be gaining steam, but personally, and I know many who share this sentiment, I don't appreciate paying a monthly fee to access data that I've already paid for, or to have to keep paying monthly fees when I can spend money to actually own a physical copy of a movie.

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It will be interesting to see what happens with regard to the cloud. I can definitely see both sides of the argument on this one, but trend data seems to point to the cloud becoming the norm.

schweb said:

Eh, I'm iffy on Blu-Ray. I agree with Jobs on this one, I think the future is streaming, not Blu-Ray.

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Yeah...you ( and Stevie) maybe right. Blue-Ray may just be an intermediate step towards the eventual streaming of video/movies (I use the website "Vettle") quite a bit.

Since the Blue-Ray format thing was settled a while back that certainly reduced the risk quite a bit of a company choosing the wrong format like VHS vs. Beta.

The one thing that "not going Blue-Ray" depends on...is that the majority of folks have broadband internet...which may or may not be a good assumption for the international market. I think someone posted a statistic that about 50% of Apples sales is international (outside the U.S.).

- Nick

schweb said:

You essentially just agreed with what I was saying. Blu-Ray might not disappear, but it won't be mainstream, it will be a niche.

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That's always a possibility. As a film geek, myself, it's difficult for me to determine the mindset of non-movie folk. I've heard some people even say they can't tell the difference. On the other hand, my best buy is about 50% DVD and 50% Blu Ray at this point.

I tend to think people like to have hard copies of stuff, like I do, but perhaps I'm wrong.

As the owner of a working Betamax AND a working Laserdisc player ... I've been around long enough to see formats come and go, and I'm here to tell you: Blu-Ray is nice, but it does NOT have a long-term future.

Now, "long term" means different things to different people. Floppies only just completely died out quite recently. Sony, it will surprise most of you to learn, finally stopped making the last consumer Beta player in 2002. You can still find working 8-track players and tapes at most thrift stores. So formats hang around for a while in terms of support. So when I say long-term I'm referring to +20 years.

The problem with Blu-Ray, as I see it, is threefold:
1. As Steve correctly said, the licensing body is "a bag of hurt." The control over the format is too tight and too greedy.

2. For *mainstream* consumers, streaming will eventually become more convenient/easier and cheaper. Collectors will obviously feel quite differently, but most normal people don't have that kind of relationship to films -- they see them as simple entertainment. Most mainstream families I encounter have very few non-kids movies in their permanent collection.

3. There is a VERY high chance that a future format (among the many currently in development) will prove to have great storage capacity, support more formats and use cheaper media.

To use current existing technology as an example: if you could use an iTunes-like store to buy MKV 1080pHD/7.1sound movie files for let's say $5 (or less), which could be stored by the hundreds on a cheap multi-GB drive (and backed up easily) and stream wirelessly to your HDTV via an AppleTV-like device, I think most non-obsessive film fans would go for that in far greater numbers than we've seen embrace and invest in Blu-Ray.

Thus, it seems to me that BR has a high chance of being superseded by something more efficient, larger capacity, more convenient and cheaper. And that's before you even bring in the very real possibility of better-than-1080p HD (already the norm in Japan) and any possible breakthroughs in home 3D ...

SweetCosmicPope said:

I tend to think people like to have hard copies of stuff, like I do, but perhaps I'm wrong.

Click to expand...

I think the most accurate model for this is the music industry. Now most people just buy their music online and are not buying physical CDs.

I think the movie industry is even more ripe for this since I think most people will only watch a movie once or twice and probably don't need a physical copy.

Of course, there will always be videophiles who want the hard format, just like there are audiophiles who still want vinyl. But the important thing is in both cases, it doesn't reflect the norm.

Sorry to just jump in here, but I'll say one thing here: I know many a people who were disappointed that the new Mac Minis did not include Blu-Ray support. For how many people have used the Mac Minis for the sole purpose of a home theater, there was a good deal of disappointment that it doesn't support the newest home-theater (disc, high-quality) technology.

With that said, I am yet to really use Blu-Ray and I also don't use Mac Minis, so it didn't affect me in the slightest. I like Blu-Ray quality, but for me it's just easier to stream with Netflix or just order their regular DVD discs (cheaper). I do, though, see where people would have a gripe with that.

I agree with the above. The audiophiles and videophiles don't care about the media the data is on. They only care about the quality of the media. And as we know the media the data is on affects the end quality of the data.

For example vinyl produces that slightly scratchy warm sound a lot of people still love to bits. And for that reason they collect the vinyl. Another example is the videophile. They love the best video/sound quality. And as of today that comes on a blu-ray disc. So people collect the physical copies (blu-rays or vinyls or whatever) just because it's the best way to get the data at the quality they want it at.

The downside is a large collection needs a warehouse (or very large room) to house it in. I'm sure in the future when everyone catches up, there will be different online versions of things to buy. You will be able to choose between CD or vinyl quality music when you buy it online. You will be able to choose between standard and blu-ray HD quality for your online bought movies. And download it all to a hard drive you'll store it on.

I know a lot of DJ's (Carl Cox as one example) who have removed the vinyl turntables from their music sets. Cause they just do it all electronic and the technology is good enough now to get that crisp warm vinyl sound from an electronic machine. And for that reason alone investing in any form of media for an extended period of time is not a good idea. Invest in getting that same quality of content/data to the people in the best way possible. WHich I think Apple is doing with their huge server farm they are building and the itunes streaming service rumoured to be in the works.

Various kinds of media will come and go. But the content is here to stay. And it's a partnership. You need good content. The movie studios/record artists make that and you need also a great way to get it to the people. Apple is working on that. Without both sides of the coin nothing happens.

And I am sure Apple is making sure that in the future everyone will have Apple as their first port of call for any content distribution they need done.

Just to add to the conversation. I think I would personally be a little more welcoming if they offered their movies with menus and bonus features, as well. I love a good director's commentary and deleted scenes.

I tend to buy the physical media when its something I will watch or listen to many times
but for everything else I do use iTunes and would love to get things in lossless audio with
1080p over the internet at reasonable pricing and without caps and increased latency but
I think we are a ways from that with providers centered around greed more than customer satisfaction.

PS. Jumping back to the original topic of this thread (!), there's no chance of Apple picking up USB3 anytime soon. It has zero mainstream penetration, its claims are (once again) highly misleading, and its not totally backward compatible.

Knowing Apple, they'll only support it if they can't come up with something faster/better/cheaper ... and as of *right now* they have at least two other options they *could* go with. So I just don't see it (though I'm sure the Mac Pro could easily support third-party USB3 cards if we ever get to that point)