So… still think Apple should let Flash on the iPhone?

http://www.electronista.com/articles/10/05/24/faster.android.hurt.specifically.by.flash/

Adobe's launch of Flash 10.1 for Android is almost single-handedly responsible for slowing down the experience of the browser and the Android phone themselves, early adopters have discovered in a test. While Flash is installed, the browser on a Nexus One is slower to load content than both an iPhone and an HTC HD2. Android 2.2 is significantly faster without the plugin, but the OS with Flash installed bogs down PocketNow's phone to where it produces a low memory error after visiting only a few websites.

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Personally, I think they should offer the option to run it. Not sure why Apple feels the need to choose for their customers almost like they're children who don't know what's best for them. If you want to use it, great - if not, turn it off in settings and call it a day.

I still don't like the idea of developers using it in place of the Apple SDK, but for browsing, sure, why not?

I had a feeling it would slow down the android and I guess it does!

I am with CWA though, choice is a good thing. Just have a toggle and shut it off like we do on Safari with Click To Flash.

Apple stance, I think, has less to do with concerns over how slow the device might or might not get and more to do with the fact that there's a entirely new layer for app developers to use and it's a layer Apple can't touch since it's proprietary to Adobe. With the SDK in place, they have access and control to restrict/allow what they see fit..

So at the end of the day, it has more to do with control of the device than with any potential performance issues..

Regards

Of course it is going to slow it down. Take into consideration that it has to take the time to render embedded objects. Not to mention, it is a beta. I am personally interested to see how it it runs when it is released. Like stated above, I would like to have the option of having it or not.

cwa107 said:

Personally, I think they should offer the option to run it. Not sure why Apple feels the need to choose for their customers almost like they're children who don't know what's best for them. If you want to use it, great - if not, turn it off in settings and call it a day.

I still don't like the idea of developers using it in place of the Apple SDK, but for browsing, sure, why not?

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There are plenty of reasons not to, from Apple's perspective. First, it would risk holding up their development. Say Flash is available and working on iPhone 4.0, but iPhone 5.0 is coming, and Flash is broken. Does Apple sit on it waiting on Adobe to fix their end, or put it out and hope for the best? This ties them to Adobe's schedule and/or places a higher risk of inconsistency of the user experience. And that experience is what sets Apple apart.

Second... what if it has a significant impact on battery life (and it will, judging from everything we know about Flash and have seen)? Who will get the blame from the users in general, Apple or Adobe? Most people won't know why their battery life sucks. They just know it does and will blame Apple. As evidence, look no further than Google's recent comments that the developers are to blame if you are having battery life issues. Apple is taking ownership of the situation on their platform by being proactive, not reactive. Does it inconvenience some developers? Sure. As the consumer, do I care? Not in the least. If all this winds up doing is stops me from playing some Flash games on my iPhone, or bypassing those annoying Flash intro pages on many websites, I think I'll be fine. There are plenty of free or cheap natively-programmed games to keep me entertained anyway.

Third... security. There are plenty of documented security issues with Flash, or so I've read. One of the things Apple is heavily focused on is security, and that's a good thing. If they weren't so focused, or if it wasn't so important to so many of us, then we may as well be running Windows.

Choice is all a great thing in principle, and even in this, people have choices in terms of other platforms. But the way I see it, there are plenty of great reasons to avoid Flash, if not be rid of it entirely. To date, it's been a necessary evil on our desktops/laptops, but change will never come if someone doesn't take a stand. If Apple didn't take a stand, then I would have little choice but to have Flash, and I don't want that crummy performance you see in the video from that link. I don't want that crummy battery life. The security issues.. I don't want any of it, but I would pretty much be stuck with it because no one would bother themselves to make Flash-less sites if they already are making them and they would be usable on my device.

I don't like a lot of the various restrictions/limitations that Apple imposes, but there's plenty to dislike about the others' approaches. When it's all said and done, I can either side with the one who is truly driving innovation, or the side that is trying to copy the innovator.

lifeisabeach said:

There are plenty of reasons not to, from Apple's perspective. First, it would risk holding up their development. Say Flash is available and working on iPhone 4.0, but iPhone 5.0 is coming, and Flash is broken. Does Apple sit on it waiting on Adobe to fix their end, or put it out and hope for the best? This ties them to Adobe's schedule and/or places a higher risk of inconsistency of the user experience. And that experience is what sets Apple apart.

Second... what if it has a significant impact on battery life (and it will, judging from everything we know about Flash and have seen)? Who will get the blame from the users in general, Apple or Adobe? Most people won't know why their battery life sucks. They just know it does and will blame Apple. As evidence, look no further than Google's recent comments that the developers are to blame if you are having battery life issues. Apple is taking ownership of the situation on their platform by being proactive, not reactive. Does it inconvenience some developers? Sure. As the consumer, do I care? Not in the least. If all this winds up doing is stops me from playing some Flash games on my iPhone, or bypassing those annoying Flash intro pages on many websites, I think I'll be fine. There are plenty of free or cheap natively-programmed games to keep me entertained anyway.

Third... security. There are plenty of documented security issues with Flash, or so I've read. One of the things Apple is heavily focused on is security, and that's a good thing. If they weren't so focused, or if it wasn't so important to so many of us, then we may as well be running Windows.

Choice is all a great thing in principle, and even in this, people have choices in terms of other platforms. But the way I see it, there are plenty of great reasons to avoid Flash, if not be rid of it entirely. To date, it's been a necessary evil on our desktops/laptops, but change will never come if someone doesn't take a stand. If Apple didn't take a stand, then I would have little choice but to have Flash, and I don't want that crummy performance you see in the video from that link. I don't want that crummy battery life. The security issues.. I don't want any of it, but I would pretty much be stuck with it because no one would bother themselves to make Flash-less sites if they already are making them and they would be usable on my device.

I don't like a lot of the various restrictions/limitations that Apple imposes, but there's plenty to dislike about the others' approaches. When it's all said and done, I can either side with the one who is truly driving innovation, or the side that is trying to copy the innovator.

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+1 ! Solid well thought out post .

Clay

Never have really taken one side or the other in the Flash debate. Can say I am with those that would like to have the option for myself.

At the same time - by my maybe naive reckoning, if Apple had waited for Adobe on this issue, we would all be waiting for the first gen iPod Touch and iPhone to come out instead of the 4th anniversary of those devices. We also wouldn't have the iPad in our grubby little hands yet either.

Options are good. Why not put the power/decision in the hands of the user, let them decide?

Startemup said:

Options are good. Why not put the power/decision in the hands of the user, let them decide?

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Because if Flash was on the iPhone, then not having it would not be a realistic option for anyone. Installing Flash on our Macs/PCs is the one of the first thing anyone does with a new system or OS installation... not because we all love it and want it... it's because we NEED it. Far too many websites demand it. Let's face it... very few websites are going to re-do their Flash-ridden pages if they don't have to. It's really that simple... they won't do it unless they have to, and Apple is telling them they have to, so now they will. And they are. I for one am thankful. If you want Flash that badly, then you have an option. Get an Android.

lifeisabeach said:

Because if Flash was on the iPhone, then not having it would not be a realistic option for anyone. Installing Flash on our Macs/PCs is the one of the first thing anyone does with a new system or OS installation... not because we all love it and want it... it's because we NEED it. Far too many websites demand it. Let's face it... very few websites are going to re-do their Flash-ridden pages if they don't have to. It's really that simple... they won't do it unless they have to, and Apple is telling them they have to, so now they will. And they are. I for one am thankful. If you want Flash that badly, then you have an option. Get an Android.

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This and your previous post I highly agree bravo.

I still think we should have flash with the option of turning it on or off. It was one of the main reasons I bought an iPod Touch.

zacman said:

I still think we should have flash with the option of turning it on or off. It was one of the main reasons I bought an iPod Touch.

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Flash was one of the main reasons you bought your iPod Touch?

cwa107 said:

Personally, I think they should offer the option to run it. Not sure why Apple feels the need to choose for their customers almost like they're children who don't know what's best for them. If you want to use it, great - if not, turn it off in settings and call it a day.

I still don't like the idea of developers using it in place of the Apple SDK, but for browsing, sure, why not?

Click to expand...

Apple's customer don't know what's best for them. Steve Jobs knows what's best for them.

cwa107 said:

Flash was one of the main reasons you bought your iPod Touch?

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Mostly for the video and gaming sites. Having Youtube on was a good plus, but other sites like Dailymotion, Dragongamez and so on. i had previous iPods with video and so on, but the added internet feature was a big draw for me with the iPod/iPhone.

Personally I can live without flash. I run plug-ins to disable them in Firefox anyways, and I only temporarily allow them to run when I really need to see the content. Otherwise everything is blocked.

I think Apple should let people decide what they want to use/watch on their equipment. We should be left to make up our own minds- i think this whole issue is a big drawback for Apple

not many places use flash too too often that isnt a stupid advertisement.

with the other better options available for flash-like effects, flash is really falling short. not many web designers I know bother with it anymore, also its not google-searchable. thats a pretty big shortcoming since no content in the flash is searchable by a search engine.

I am pretty sure itll be completely phased out within the next year or so.

HypnoDerby said:

I think Apple should let people decide what they want to use/watch on their equipment. We should be left to make up our own minds- i think this whole issue is a big drawback for Apple

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Has not slowed their sales down any just look at the iPad shortages.

Flash should never touch the iPhone...seeing what it does to Mac's.
However i do not blame Apple for not having a solution, i blame Adobe for not being able to release something useful.