AirPort Extreme Base Station question

A little background.

My current setup is
Wall -> wired to 4 port router -> wired to imac
The 4 port router is not wireless.
And I can access the internet just fine

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I know I've asked this before but I'm still confused on one point.

AirPort Extreme Base Station - Apple Store (Australia)
That is what I'm after, an Airport extreme base station. But the point I am so consufed on is this:
Do I still need my old wired 4 port router? As in which option is correct for me?

1. Wall -> wired to router -> wired to AEBS -> wireless to my imac
2. Wall -> wired to AEBS -> wireless to my imac

Which of those 2 is correct? I've had so many conflicting informations about this it's not funny anymore. I really hope it's option 2. But I don't have the $230 to try and work out it doesn't do what I want it to do.

A straight answer to this would really help me. And sorry for asking this question again. But I just can't seem to understand if I need my 4 port router with the AEBS or not.

Thanks so much .

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And a random question. If I had a USB external hard disk attached to the AEBS, could I access it wirelessly with my imac through the AEBS?
Well I read this on thr apple site about the AEBS:

You can share an external USB hard drive over your wireless and wired networks by simply connecting it to the USB port on your AirPort Extreme Base Station.

Click to expand...

That would mean a yes to my question? I would think so but is that right?

No, you won't need your old router but depending on how you get the internet into your house (cable modem, etc) will figure into this. Not sure exactly what you mean by "wall" but check here in the Airport Extreme User Guide on page 11 for a picture of a typical setup.

Check out pages 13 & 15 for your hard drive question. The answer is "yes". I have 3 drives and a printer connected to the AEBS by using a USB powered hub.

You don't "need" the other router, though it could be left in place - and allow it to handle all DHCP duties. But you do need the modem portion that I assume your existing router also has to handle the DSL, cable or whatever your broadband service is - as in the pic MacMe indicates. None of the Airport devices include a modem.

To Mac Me:
Wall is the outlet from the wall of your house you plug the phone cable into from your router. And thanks a million for linking the setup guide that really answers my question. Just like you said I'd have to use the setup on page 11 of the user guide. So I will net my old ADSL modem/router. A shame that. As I wanted to do away with it as it's getting rather old now. Oh well I'll have to use it still. At least now I know. And thank you.

To bobtomay:
I use ADSL and yes my router has modem capabilities in the same little box. Seems I'll be needing both. Than you so much too.

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Now I an understanding. Would you know a good new cheap ADSL modem I could use with the AEBS? Because mine is this one:
NB1300Plus4: NetComm
And it os so bug and grey and ugly. Something small would be nice.

But on this forum:
http://forums.mactalk.com.au/28/5322-airport-express-compatible-adsl-modems-routers.html

First up ask on a more international forum like macrumors to get UK specific info but
I can recommend the Netcomm NB1300 plus 4.
Definetly get a router modem of you can, its far more secure.

Click to expand...

likewise, can't go wrong with one of these.
Have had mine running with Airport Express since December and have never had a problem with it.... What more can I say?!
Approx $90 from memory

Click to expand...

So would you think my modem is ok with the AEBS?
Yes my modem/router is over 5 years old now and no longer being manufactured.

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And can the AEBS be left on (or plugged oin as there is no on/off switch) 24/7?

bobtomay is right - you can just keep your current router/modem - connect the AEBS to the router/modem - and have it serve your wireless - while your router/modem can handle NAT/DHCP duty. It is actually how I have my timecapsule setup. I have a router - that serves NAT/DHCP - and my timecapsule just does the wireless routing (and NAS)

And just to clarify - you go wall -> modem/router combo -> wired imac
There has to be a Wan modem somewhere and there is confusion about this because ISPs are now providing all in one solutions so it looks like a switch/router/hub but inside there is a WAN interface. So if a cable/fiber/telephone line/cell phone modem/etc goes in one side and rj-45 or wireless comes out - then that is a WAN interface device.

And yes, the AEBS would be left on 24/7. My Time Capsule (the model that was suppose to die after 18 months) has been running 24/7 for about 3 years now. (knock on wood)

Thanks to the both of you.
IvanLasston - that's exactly what I plan to do.
Bob - that helps a lot .

And I have one final question. You both know what I want to do with it. And I've been thinking of saving a few $ and buying maybe an express instead. But I've never found out what the wireless range is with express compared to extreme.

I don't need the 3 lan ports of the extreme. I don't need the USB hard drive ability of the extreme. I just connect the HD to my imac. So is the express's range good enough to fill a small 2 storey apartment (up and down stairs)? (That's what I live in). If so I'll get the express instead.

The form factor of the express and it's size really impresses me but does it have enough wireless range to get the job done?

the8thark said:

And a random question. If I had a USB external hard disk attached to the AEBS, could I access it wirelessly with my imac through the AEBS?

Click to expand...

I won't touch the rest of your post because it has already been well handled. Just wanted to add that I have almost exactly the configuration you are talking about going to with these exceptions:

1) Timecapsule in place of AEBS hooked to DSL modem
2) 2nd AEBS downstairs as wireless bridge to Sattelite receiver

I have 250gb WD HDD connected by USB to the Timecapsule; it works well though access can be slow. I at first tried moving my iTunes and iPhoto Libraries to it, but that proved maddening, especially since iTunes doesn't tend to wait long enough for the drive to wake up for synchs. If I want to synch files that are on that drive I actually have to play them first so iTunes knows where to get them for synch to iPod/iPhone/iPad.
Basically I use it for backup storage. If I had it all to do over, I probably would try a NAS to see if that worked better, or go for a larger drive in the Timecapsule (currently looking at upgrading mine with a 2TB HDD).

More than I had intended to post, but IMO the HDD connection via USB is not as useful as I originally thought it might be.

Thanks Razormac. I had already decided this working from a USB hard drive via the extreme is not worth the effort. And you just confirmed that.

Still need to know one final thing. I know the extreme will fill my little apartment ok (Upstairs will be ok with extreme downstairs). But will the range of the express be just as good?

If you're still interested in the additional storage, especially for back up, you may want to consider a refurb Timecapsule. Apple has the 1TB model for $239 USD, not much more than the AEBS alone.

I don't know anything about the relative signal strengths of AEBS vs Airport Express

Thanks for the offer but I don't need aditional storage. I already have a Western Digital 1TB USB external hard drive. So time machine was really never on the cards for me.

It depends on how much metal and what not you have in between you and the Airport Express (or Extreme for that matter) - I know the time capsule covers my 3300 square foot (American) house. I have Expresses peppered throughout the house so I can use Airfoil to listen to whatever wherever I am. Anyway I guess I can experiment at home and see which Express I'm picking up - with Istumbler.

Really if you have a lot of open space in your Apartment the Express should cover it. If it is really dense with equipment between where you want to use it and where you put the Express - then you may have issues.

So in summary - if you get the Extreme - I would say there would be no doubt it would cover you but it is $79 (US) more and has a bunch of functionality you wouldn't use. It seems like the Express has pretty good range to me but I can verify the range at home. I would go to Apple and see what they say about testing the Express and returning it for an Extreme if it doesn't work. I think Apple has a 14 day return policy - It's always best to test for yourself.

I just did some testing and the signal from my upstairs Extreme registered at 47% to 11% noise - from my basement. That is I have an upstairs - the ground floor and a basement and the Airport Express is in my upstairs bedroom. There is a kitchen between where I was sitting in the basement and where I my Airport Express was.

So I would say go get the Express - it probably will handle a 2 story flat but if it doesn't be ready to return it - so don't throw anything away. Also note that the express serves 10 users - whereas the extreme supports 50 users. Before you go thinking that an Express is enough think through the number of users and devices/user. For example one user could have an ipad, iphone and a laptop - so if you have 3 users like that - you are at 9 devices!

Thanks a million for allt he responces. Yes I know the express only works with 10 devices. And that is enough for me.

And well what did I do?
I ended up paying $150 for the airport express. I got home and set it up. I wasn't sure about one question in the Airport utility so I guessed it. And you know what it took me a whole 10 mins from the unboxing to me finishing using the utility and being connected to the net. Apple are not wrong about it being the easiest sireless base station it set up. And I think I am getting a full signal from it. So that's nice too.

But I do have another question. I know I'm full of questions .
What radio mode should I use? I have 4 options now.



What would be the best one to choose? I'm not so sure if the differences between 2.4 and 5 Ghz. Sure I know the technical differences but what will the actual user notice? I'm not so sure.

And for channel selection it's on automatic now, is that ok? Or shoild I pick a channel?
Istumbler says there is 3 networks in my area.
1. My airport express, level hovers around 36%-41%, noise 20%, Channel 1
2. A random telstra network, level 37%, noise 17%, channel 6
3. A 2nd random telstra network, level 18%, noise 15%, channel 7

Is there a way to get my level closer to 100%?

And yes I put a WPA2 password on it. I think that should be enough so others can't tap into my ietwork for free internet.

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In saying all of that, the net acts the same as it did yesterday when it was wired (which is very nice). But you know how it is, we all want to optimise all of our networks, be them wired or wireless so they are the best they can be.

Depends on what you want to hook up - Iphones and current version ipods only do 802.11g - so if you want to be compatible with those devices you need to keep b/g compatibility. Also - only the newest devices support 5GHz N (or 2.4GHz N for that matter) - so if you have any old computers you'll need to keep 2.4 on as well as being backward compatible. I keep my radio choice set to automatic. Just to throw a wrench in - if you hold alt and click you will see a bunch more options.

Secondly - 5GHz is very susceptible to "stuff in the way" - I tried running the 5GHz network and even with Airport Expresses backing up - the signal was really bad - so I dropped to having my machine automatically pick. When I am close enough to my time capsule I get the 5Ghz - otherwise I am running 2.4Ghz. Try it and see what istumbler says - but I saw really bad signal to noise when I tried running 5GHz. If you have an open floorplan this might not affect you.

Keep the channel on automatic - the Express will keep you on the channel with the least amount of interference.

The best way to get your signal up - is to get your Express in an open spot close to the center of your abode. Otherwise you are wasting signal going outside of your house. Or - put the Express as close as you can to where you work the most. Otherwise it comes down to - how much stuff is in between you and the express.

Lastly WPA2 is a good start - but your password should be strong as well. No dictionary words, 12 or more characters, combination of lower and upper case, numbers and punctuation. See this video on a dictionary crack - DON'T USE DICTIONARY WORDS FOR PASSWORDS!
YouTube - wpa2 Wifi Cracking

Thanks a lot for the advice. I'll try to move the AEBS around to get the best signal. And my WPA2 password is a bunch of latters and numbers on a random order. That are not a word in any language I know of. it is just a random combination like :

fg56fgrtdf

That's not even close to my WPA2 password but I'm just trying to say that is not a word just like my WPA2 password is not a word. Thanks for the advice though .

And about the N. At the moment the only device I have that is wireless in my house is a white C2D imac that is n capable. Not so sure about 5Ghz though, but it's worth a try

I'm not were I can view the video, but I have a question on password security. What about sentences like with $ substituted for "s":

$nowcone$areTa$ty!

(not even close to my password BTW)

The way dictionary and hash attacks work is it trys to guess your password off of known passwords and hashes. Think of it as a very large compare program. The more randomness, longer, and more characters you can use and still have a memorable password the better. Just think about it - The program will have to guess that you substituted s with $ - that increases the solution space quite a bit - if you can introduce numbers too - then the solution space becomes quite large quite fast.

Parallel computing has gotten better and there are botnets with quite a bit of processing power behind them. If you are really paranoid - the last time I heard you want to change your password every 43 days. That is the best cryptographic software working on name guessing - it usually takes 45 days to guess a password - but that is old info and seems pretty paranoid for home users.

If you can't see the video - he puts a complex string into the dictionary - so it works - so it is pretty fake. There another video that shows the password to be mercedes. Anyway - these visual substitutions are usually pretty good for making a password memorable but hard to guess. Also if you are truly worried - go grab a dictionary attack program and peruse the words in there to give you an idea of what is out there. If you have macports you can try
This will give you an idea on what a password cracker looks like (not necessarily for wpa2 cracking but to give you an idea of what password crackers are available.)

At my age I'm more worried about forgetting my Password than I am getting hacked, but I do want to take reasonable precautions. Thanks for the feedback and sorry to the8thark for hijacking his thread for an side question.

That's ok Razormac . I think that is good information for everyone to know. As the days of being wired to the internet are nearing the end, pretty fast too.

And Razormac. You can do what I do for a password.

Say this comes into your mind hypothecially "Steve Jobs Cupertino Apple 01, Steve Ballmer is dumb". You could use that as your password. But the password would be "sjca1sbid". Sure it's a bunch of letters, but the letters mean something to you, so you can easily remember them.

Sure your words and bunch of letters would be different but I think you get the idea. It's an easier way to remember the letters and numbers then just rote learning thew character sequence.