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Adobe Flash CS5 For Windows May Violate Apple Rules

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this should be interesting it to see how this plays out. I wonder what is the real reason behinde apple not allowing iphones,ipads,iPods to uncode Flash yet all the other computers can show it.
 
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chas_m

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this should be interesting it to see how this plays out. I wonder what is the real reason behinde apple not allowing iphones,ipads,iPods to uncode Flash yet all the other computers can show it.

Partially, perhaps, but the "real reason" is exactly what Jobs said it was a) when they introduced the iPhone three years ago and b) what they said it was more recently at the iPad intro:

1. Kills the battery
2. Causes crashes

The bottom line is that Flash for OS X *sucks* and needs fixing. If Adobe would just *fix it* Apple might change their tune.
 
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I did not take what they said to heart. a Battery issue is a joke if that was the case you would have an option to not decode flash as you have to option not to use 3G which will slash your battery time in half. As for crashes that is a OS issue for sure and shame on apple for that if it is true.
 
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Even on a PC Flash is a security breach long live HTML 5.
 
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I did not take what they said to heart. a Battery issue is a joke if that was the case you would have an option to not decode flash as you have to option not to use 3G which will slash your battery time in half. As for crashes that is a OS issue for sure and shame on apple for that if it is true.

How can you justify your position on how you imply that you're smarter than Apple?
 
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this should be interesting it to see how this plays out. I wonder what is the real reason behinde apple not allowing iphones,ipads,iPods to uncode Flash yet all the other computers can show it.

Simple test unplug your laptop play Flash content watch your battery life go
down cpu usage go up and heat go up and that is on a laptop with a serious
battery not a portable device or you can ask someone that has a jail broken
portable how long the battery lasts if the heat monitor does not kick in first.
 
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this should be interesting it to see how this plays out. I wonder what is the real reason behinde apple not allowing iphones,ipads,iPods to uncode Flash yet all the other computers can show it.

Well what osxx said is very true.
But Apple could just want to drive the IT industry away from flash. Apple did it with floppy disks. Imacs did not have drives for them to move the industry away from their use. And Apple are are doing it over and over. And I think it's just Apple's idea that flash one day will be out dated and useless. And think this is the future and are making a stand now so they are not left behind.
 
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I noticed its not just Apple that wants to do away with Flash or have it completely overhauled its in other mfg's interest also.
 
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Another really good reason for not wanting Flash on a computer is that there are a good number of security holes associated with Flash. FFT IMO
 
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I did not take what they said to heart. a Battery issue is a joke if that was the case you would have an option to not decode flash as you have to option not to use 3G which will slash your battery time in half. As for crashes that is a OS issue for sure and shame on apple for that if it is true.

No its not an OS issue its a junk code issue ! The problem isn't with apple its with adobe being lazy and never developing flash for OS X , its the same product they wrote and optimized for windows , and it is a serious cause of crashes on Mac's .

Clay
 
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As for crashes that is a OS issue for sure and shame on apple for that if it is true.

It's not an OS issue -- it's a developer issue.

Thus, it's not "shame on apple," it's "shame on Adobe."

The Mac version of Flash IS BUGGY. This is an undisputed fact, even by Adobe itself. It is the #1 cause of Safari (and Firefox, according to them) crashes.

Once again, this means that the problem is with Adobe's implementation of Flash on the Mac, which is considerably inferior to the Windows implementation.

Thus, Adobe should stop treating Mac customers like second-class citizens and just *fix Flash.* They should do this for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with the iPhone or iPad -- they should do it because its the right thing to do.

Apple has spent the better part of a *decade* trying to get Adobe to get their apps up to speed with the latest reference platforms, APIs and languages, and Adobe has consistently chosen to drag behind absolutely EVERYONE else in this regard. It is an "attitude problem" with Adobe, not Apple.
 
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Yes and this attitude could be the end of flash as we know it. Apple are not the biggest market share. But they do set the trends in the industry and others do follow. So if Apple trashcan flash because of it, I'm sure others will too. And that'd be a big blow to Adobe's profits.
 
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Wake up people

Please take the time to read this (I took me a while to write it) but, before you do I would like to say that I'm not an HTML5 hater I simply love all web technologies whether it be Flash, HTML etc...gotta use it all and we should have the freedom to choose what we want to display in our devices. I just bought an iPad but, I'm so disappointed with the lack of Flash support I honestly can't wait for the HP Slate to come out (I'll probably keep both)...

- "Even on a PC Flash is a security breach long live HTML 5."

When will people realize you can't really compare Flash with HTML5. HTML5 is barely starting to come out it will take years for it to get to the level where Flash is at and even then Flash can handle so many things that HTML5 can't...Flash is not just a video player!..and Adobe is also working on Open Screen Project to enable developers and content publishers to deliver to any device, so that consumers have open access to media, content, and applications across platform, regardless of the device that people choose to use, course Apple is not joining.


- "How can you justify your position on how you imply that you're smarter than Apple?"

He was not implying that at all simply making a statement. 3G will drain your battery just as much if not more as Flash does so why not have an option to disable/enable Flash...Apple simply wants to control the content on their devices (not a true Internet device..we want freedom!). This being proven more today after Apple banned iPhone/iPad publishing from third party compilers...(even apps compiled in Flash would need to be approved for the app store..hmmm wonder why they put the ban in place..)..


- "And I think it's just Apple's idea that flash one day will be out dated and useless. And think this is the future and are making a stand now so they are not left behind."

Flash is a long way from over...it has so many capabilities..Look around the web and show me an HTML5 site that can do what sites at thefwa.com can. Those sites provide major interactive content...Over 85% of the top web sites contain Flash content and Flash runs on over 98% of computers on the Web.

- "Another really good reason for not wanting Flash on a computer is that there are a good number of security holes associated with Flash. FFT IMO"

Again..that's with certain content...it's not Flash itself..there are security risks with Java too (everything has security issues)....



-"The Mac version of Flash IS BUGGY. This is an undisputed fact, even by Adobe itself. It is the #1 cause of Safari (and Firefox, according to them) crashes.

WRONG!!! Hardware acceleration is not supported under Mac OS X, because Mac OS X does not expose access to the required APIs. Basically Apple isn't allowing Flash to become more efficient on their Mac OS X/Safari platform (or their iPod/iPhone/iPad one, either) by not providing the access to the hardware it needs to reduce its CPU load... the ball is in Apple's court.


- "No its not an OS issue its a junk code issue ! The problem isn't with apple its with adobe being lazy and never developing flash for OS X"
PLEASE SEE ABOVE...


- "Thus, Adobe should stop treating Mac customers like second-class citizens and just *fix Flash.* "

WRONG AGAIN!!!
If anyone remembers correctly...or before everyone jumped on the "apple" bandwagon..when Apple was not doing so well the majority of it's users/customers were Adobe users (creatives)...Apple should remember Adobe users and stop treating us like second class citizens!


Bottom line if Apple wants to provide the "end user" (they're always talking about end user design) with a great Web experience they should allow us to make the choice and not dictate what we can and can't view...Apple is just blocking Flash for corporate gain..

I own a Macbook Pro 2.5 (after selling my original 2.33), Mac Pro (fully loaded 16gigs of mem Nvidia Quadro fx 4500..paid top $$ for this 2 years ago)..30" LCD cinema, 20" Cinema and I just got the iPad. I really love their products but this is getting to me big time...
 
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Please take the time to read this (I took me a while to write it) .


O.K. I read it. And before anyone starts calling this person a troll or anything of that nature, I'm gonna go ahead and say that I back his statements all the way. The last paragraph he wrote pretty much states it all. It's about control, nothing more. We all know that Jobs is a control freak, and he's also very clever, so none of this is surprising.

The main problem I believe that everybody whom is clamoring against Flash in defense of Apple's moves is, that they feel useless and trapped. You stated that it would be better if the end user had a "choice". Well, since Apple's users never have a choice (if they want to continue using Apple's products), they (we) have no other way to vent their (our) frustrations other than by blaming the only other participant (Adobe) in this ongoing feud.

I'm with you and have seen the same proof as you have (Apple not giving Adobe the access they need to actually fix the problem), as have others' here, but most (if not all) are just too far into the anti Adobe propaganda that it's impossible to shed the denial and make Apple take any of the responsibility in their minds.

So now, the only other choice they leave themselves, is to ride the wave until they finally receive satisfaction. And if that takes years, they'll wait it out, continuing the mantra that Apple is 100% right and won't even admit that alienating the company that actually supported Apple with a huge user base for years, is the same company that they're now spitting on, simply because they're actually powerless to do much else. After all, could you ever see these same people abandoning/boycotting Apple products ? Never.

And to be honest, I don't blame them much. After having used Windows since its inception, and Linux for 5 years, there's nothing I'd ever want to go back to in that direction. Linux was a great alternative, but at the price of what it lacks, I'm not willing to do it again for anything other than a tinker hobby.

While the ball may be in Apple's court, the problem is that they're not playing anymore. And all we can do is either accept that fact, or do as everyone else is doing and go with the flow and wish for the best. I don't like it, but I don't see many other choices. I'm not going back to Windows. Not until they start figuring out what makes a secure, and fun computing experience.

Doug
 
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Yep

Cool thanks, I don't think I'm a "troll"...I've always visited this and other forums but...in reality I just got the info i needed and went about my business..but the lack of flash finally made me join and post.

I run Windows too but in Bootcamp and honestly I've had to re-image that Bootcamp partition one too many times while the OSX side has never been re-imaged once...the reality is I would have to stop purchasing Apple products in order to make a statement but, their hardware and OS run my Adobe apps the best...I just feel let down by apple.
 
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Please take the time to read this

I read it all too.

And firstly:
"3G will drain your battery just as much if not more as Flash does"
That is correct. People need 3G though. So running flash + 3G = no battery life at all. And I think this is what Jobs is hinting at with his "I hate flash speech". On their own Flash and 3G are not bad on the battery. But put the two together and it's not good. And I'd like to see what the ipad clones battery life is with flash+3G running at the same time.

Yes flash can do a lot of stuff at the moment I agree with you. But . . . well I see it this way:

Flash:
Pluses - Looks pretty, a lot of the web uses it, easy enough to code with if you know what you're doing, is an established codec to use
Minuses - A lot of the web uses it (all those ugly pointless poor quality flash ads), requires me to have extra plugins, uses way to much of my cpu, lack of decent OS X supprt from Adobe.

Html5
Pluses - Needs no additional plugins to work, uses a lot less of my cpu then flash, is being slowly adopted as we speak, can be seen anywhere, even in mobile devices liek iphone/ipad
Minuses - Not yet a completed standard, many websites have not yet or refuse to switch over to html5.

So neither flash or html is perfect. So it's more about picking the one thst suits you more. For me apart from one little facebook game I do not need flash, so I am in the html 5 camp. And so is Apple.

And if you look at the history of mainstream computing, it is not about choice. It never has been. It's been about how well you can use what is dumped infront of you. Be it Apple or MS neither officially support hacking your OS to modify it to just how you want. All the hackers moved to linux where you can hack to your hearts content and all the linux devs will love you for it.

For the 2 big players Apple and MS, they just plop infront of you, Windows or OS X. And you live with their limitations or wither not use a computer or move to linux.

And how this relates to html5 vs flash is this:
The iphone OS is no different to any other OS in the respect that it's just Apple giving you an OS and you have only one choice, use it or don't use it and don't use the devices it runs on. That's just life.

And about this you said:
"Thus, Adobe should stop treating Mac customers like second-class citizens and just *fix Flash.* "

I think your comments th this are wrong. Well in a way only. I don't think Adobe should fix flash. Cause I think there is nothing to be fixed. Flash needs to be retired to a green pasture where it can live the rest of it's life in peace and quietly die.

Nothing in the computing world lasts for ever. Yes we need death to bring about new progess. OS X came around and killed OS 9. W7 killed vista. etc etc. And I think flash is the same. In it's day flash was relitavely good and a good purpose on the internet. But today Adobe is just lazy and want to keep milking their cash cow for more money. This cow being flash. If Adobe were smart they'd move on to something even better and make even more money.

In my opinion flash is already a legacy codec. And Apple was the one of the first to make a move away to something new. Nothing lasts for ever. And though flash was once useful, I loved it back in the day, now it needs to die to let soemthing new and improved take it's place.

You said this:
"Bottom line if Apple wants to provide the "end user" (they're always talking about end user design) with a great Web experience they should allow us to make the choice and not dictate what we can and can't view...Apple is just blocking Flash for corporate gain.."

Agreed corporate gain is one thing apple is doing just like any other company would do. Apple is also moving with the times. Better to be ahead of the tech curve then behind it. And sure by doing this you have to say bye bye to a few things. And adobe are cut that Apple said goodbye to their flash.

I am sure if Apple were not as strong as they are today that Adobe would say bye bye to them too and not support OS X anymore. You just have to know when to get out of something and move on to the even better. And I think now is an awesome time for Adobe. They have just the opportunity to kill flash with soemthing even better (hopefully not plugin based). And this something could take the world by storm and become the next net standard.

Adobe can kill flash by their own hands as I said above or wait a while and someone else kill it. If I was CEO of adobe I'd be putting all my R&D money into flash's successor. And heck that move might even get some brownie points with Apple/google/MS etc.

You said this"
"The Mac version of Flash IS BUGGY"

And your responce is that is "wrong". And I agree with you "flash is buggy" is wrong. For me flash just works on my imac. Be it in safari, FireFox, Opera or a FLV video in VLC. Not one issue. I can't say the same for MS's silverlight. Major POS that is is every way pssible.

The only bad thing about flash's performance is it using up way to much of my cpu. I really don't like that. But I would call that a flash design fault and not a bug. So on the whole I agree with you flash is not buggy at all. But poorly designed - heck yes.

You said this:
"And I think it's just Apple's idea that flash one day will be out dated and useless. And think this is the future and are making a stand now so they are not left behind."

And you claim flash is far from dead. I disagree. My opinion is as I stated above, I feel flash in it's corrent form is a legacy codec that people still insist on supporting. Adobe need to move on to flash X or whatever they want to call it. Something that is not flash but does the same thing and is 100x better (and hopefully no plugins required) but I won't be dissapointed if one is needed. Html5 is not flash but does a lot of what flash can do. And I'm sure by the time all the new flash features are done, html will have a lot more features too.

So my final opinion on this war is:

Apple - I agree do not support flash.
Adobe - Use this prime time to work on a successor to flash that is not flash but does the same stuff only better. And stop relying on legacy codecs.
Everyone else - Wait and see if Adobe are making a better altenative to flash or just Flash version whatever. And if it's just flash rebranded, then move on and don't support legacy codecs.
 
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While I respect your opinions at the end of the day, they are just that "your opinions"...I have mine, I love Flash, Flash content, Flash stand alone apps and as a consumer I would like support for it and not have it dictated by Apple and I'm sure there are a lot of users that feel the same. The reason why Flash (aka legacy codec) is still being supported is because......drum roll.....It is still being used

I think jobs just used a poor excuse to deny Flash (if Flash is the cause of OSX crashing then, is he's stating that OSX is that much of junky OS that it can be crashed by Flash..come on). He just needed to build momentum from the Apple fanboys to join him..I'm ashamed to admit but, I was a fanboy at one point but..I'm definitely placing a call to the apple store tomorrow and going to put a good argument in to avoid that 10% restocking fee of my iPad...I'll keep my macs because they've always done what I wanted them to do. On another note I've never had issues with Flash on my Macs...odd
 
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LOL I just realized how worked up I was getting over this topic....when all I simply have to do is return the iPad and get something else...sucks I can't publish to it or the iPhone directly from CS5 though..
 

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