G4 PPC startup/boot problems and delays ...

trader22 · Dec 15, 2009

About a month and a half ago I had my RAM maxed out to 2 Gigs. For 4 weeks everything was cool. About two weeks ago I came in my office and my machine wouldn't start, I pressed the button several times, held it down and nothing. I finally unplugged the power cord and reattached and tried again to start it. This time it worked and for several days had no incident, but in the last 2 weeks its happened a total of three times. Now starting yesterday, my boot/start times have increased dramatically. For 5 years it has reliably taken from around 30 to 45 seconds to boot up, but now it takes 3 to 5 minutes. I feared maybe a pending HD failure so I've purchased what I need to make a boot-able back system, 500 gig firewire external drive and a copy of "Carbon Copy Cloner". I should have done the backup years ago, I know, but this is where I am. Any ideas on my prolonged boot time?

hughvane · Dec 15, 2009

Changing the hard drive in a PPC G4 is a doddle, seriously.

For your purposes, hardware may be a better solution than the software you've opted to use. I refer to a USB/ATA adaptor, like this Newer Technology Universal Drive Adapter -... (U2NV2SPATA) at OWC (on special at present). Not as fast as firewire, and not usable for booting from external, but excellent for storage and file backup.

Before you swap drives though, replace the PRAM battery (also available from OWC, or from newegg).

In addition to a tired hard drive, as you suggest, the prolonged boot time may be related to Spotlight, because it's checking absolutely everything for its database. This should be occurring only if you've recently updated the OS, or changed S'light preferences. You should set S'light to check only the G4 hard drive, and then only essential folders.

For searching your hard drive, and any external storage devices, I recommend using Cmd-F from Finder. It does a better job than S'light.

harryb2448 · Dec 15, 2009

And what type of memory was installed? G4's are extremely fussy about RAM and it is essential that l,ow density Apple compatible memory was instal;led. Most PC shops sell similar memory which is cheaper high density which can fail after a couple of weeks, or months.

trader22 · Dec 16, 2009

hughvane said:
Changing the hard drive in a PPC G4 is a doddle, seriously.

For your purposes, hardware may be a better solution than the software you've opted to use. I refer to a USB/ATA adaptor, like this Newer Technology Universal Drive Adapter -... (U2NV2SPATA) at OWC (on special at present). Not as fast as firewire, and not usable for booting from external, but excellent for storage and file backup.

Before you swap drives though, replace the PRAM battery (also available from OWC, or from newegg).

In addition to a tired hard drive, as you suggest, the prolonged boot time may be related to Spotlight, because it's checking absolutely everything for its database. This should be occurring only if you've recently updated the OS, or changed S'light preferences. You should set S'light to check only the G4 hard drive, and then only essential folders.

For searching your hard drive, and any external storage devices, I recommend using Cmd-F from Finder. It does a better job than S'light.

Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. I'm not changing the HD I'm simply implementing a boot-able backup system in case thats where this is headed with the extended boot up times. I ran the Apple hardware test and everything tested fine, so I'm leaning towards a probable software issue, but I haven't changed or updated anything since the mem upgrade. I'm not familiar with spotlight, but my machine does boot up to "finder" if thats what you mean.

harryb2448 said:
And what type of memory was installed? G4's are extremely fussy about RAM and it is essential that l,ow density Apple compatible memory was instal;led. Most PC shops sell similar memory which is cheaper high density which can fail after a couple of weeks, or months.

I had the memory installed at the PeachMac store, (2) 1 gig strips. I have the box the memory came in ,but it doesn't give a brand, all it says is, "1GB, 184-pin DIMM, DDR PC2700 memory". I don't know if that helps... I haven't done any of the upgrades I mentioned earlier yet, except the memory. The new external HD is in route and the program isn't installed yet either(CCC).

hughvane · Dec 16, 2009

Okay, my reference to replacing the hard drive was your "maybe a pending HD failure", which would necessitate replacing it, assuming you wished to continue using your G4.

Re Spotlight - which OS are you using? S'light came into being with Tiger, the latest (and last) version of which is 10.4.11. Cmd-F is executed from Finder (or Desktop) and is used to locate absolutely everything related to the item being sought (excellent for ditching unwanted software).

If your G4 is one of the last three models produced, then 184-pin is the correct type (source - Mactracker). 184 wouldn't fit in earlier G4 models anyway. The only doubt might be single vs dual processors, requiring different RAM modules, so what model of G4 do you have? [use About This Mac from the Apple symbol, top l-h corner, or System Profiler.]

harryb2448 · Dec 16, 2009

1GB modules mat not work too well in a G4, particularly if there is other memory installed as well as the maximum recognised is 2GB. Maximum recommended memory is 4x512MB which makes up the 2GB and I would guess it is not Apple compatible memory. Try the machine with the new memory removed and see if that makes a difference at all.

Here is a link on similar problem:-

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/938324.html

trader22 · Dec 17, 2009

hughvane said:
Okay, my reference to replacing the hard drive was your "maybe a pending HD failure", which would necessitate replacing it, assuming you wished to continue using your G4.

Re Spotlight - which OS are you using? S'light came into being with Tiger, the latest (and last) version of which is 10.4.11. Cmd-F is executed from Finder (or Desktop) and is used to locate absolutely everything related to the item being sought (excellent for ditching unwanted software).

If your G4 is one of the last three models produced, then 184-pin is the correct type (source - Mactracker). 184 wouldn't fit in earlier G4 models anyway. The only doubt might be single vs dual processors, requiring different RAM modules, so what model of G4 do you have? [use About This Mac from the Apple symbol, top l-h corner, or System Profiler.]

I do wish to continue using my G4.
I am running OS X 10.4.11 .
My computer is one of the last produced. When I bought it they gave me a deal because the NEW G5 was out and they had 2 G4's left to move. My machine has dual processors. I copied the Hware profile for you below.

Hardware Overview:

Machine Name: Power Mac G4
Machine Model: PowerMac3,6
CPU Type: PowerPC G4 (3.3)
Number Of CPUs: 2
CPU Speed: 1.25 GHz
L2 Cache (per CPU): 256 KB
L3 Cache (per CPU): 1 MB
Memory: 2 GB
Bus Speed: 167 MHz
Boot ROM Version: 4.6.0f1
Serial Number: XB31807EN1X

I do remember when I had my memory installed that the two tech guys argued over which was the right way to go, (2) 1 gig strips or (4) .5 Gig strips. The younger guy said (2) strips would work and tested it before I took it. While my machine is up and running it does perfect, its just the boot time is getting really long.

harryb2448 said:
1GB modules mat not work too well in a G4, particularly if there is other memory installed as well as the maximum recognised is 2GB. Maximum recommended memory is 4x512MB which makes up the 2GB and I would guess it is not Apple compatible memory. Try the machine with the new memory removed and see if that makes a difference at all.

Here is a link on similar problem:-

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/938324.html

The (2) gig strips are all the memory that is installed, I have the old memory in a drawer and the tech guy told me NOT to put it back in the machine with the new memory, so I haven't. The memory was purchased and installed by an authorized Apple dealer, "PeachMac" in Athens, GA.

hughvane · Dec 17, 2009

trader22 said:
I do wish to continue using my G4.
I am running OS X 10.4.11 .
My computer is one of the last produced.

Ah, now we're getting there. Thanks for all the spec info.

The RAM for your G4 *should* be 4 - PC-2700 2.5v, unbuffered, 8-byte, nonparity 184-pin DDR SDRAM.

That's 4 x 512 Mb, but 2 x 1 Gb should do the same thing, the G4 isn't precious about it. The tech guys should have put the modules in slots J1 and J2, which you can check by opening your machine and looking at the RAM slots. I don't think it matters too much which two of the four slots are occupied, as long as they're side-by-side. The OS startup checks Slot 1 first, that's all.

While my machine is up and running it does perfect, its just the boot time is getting really long.

Okay, the next port-of-call is to give the OS a checkup. I recommend using Onyx Titanium Software for that. Repair permissions, run maintenance scripts, and optimize the system (update only). This operation will take quite a while first time.

Next, open whichever browser(s) you use, and empty the cache(s). Then, trash and delete any unnecessary/unwanted text files and pictures. Remember that the OS checks absolutely everything on startup. If you can reduce clutter, you'll reduce startup time.

The (2) gig strips are all the memory that is installed, I have the old memory in a drawer and the tech guy told me NOT to put it back in the machine with the new memory.

Yes, mix-and-match is not a good idea, providing the new RAM is definitely the correct type. You would imagine that the Mac store techs knew what they were doing.

I think Harry is suggesting replacing the new memory with the old, simply to test the idea that the new RAM may not be the correct type. Swapping RAM is a simple task.

Last thing for now - have you considered installing SMART Reporter? http://smartreporter.en.softonic.com/mac. It's a simple little utility that reports constantly on the state of your hard drive.

Mac1992 · Dec 18, 2009

Hi,

I'm using a single CPU PM G4 1.25GHz with 2 GB RAM running on Mac OS 10.5 with no problems on startup.

My RAM slot config is: J1 - 512MB; J2 - 512MB; J3 - 1GB; J4 - [empty]. I've installed 1 GB RAM in J1 & J2 slots for some time before I upgraded by adding 1 GB RAM in the J3 slot. Both configs worked fine.

In fact, I've just posted a question to the forum on whether I can add 1 GB RAM to use all my RAM slots.

Hope this info helps...

Mac 1992

trader22 · Dec 20, 2009

It's all over but the crying....

hughvane said:
Okay, the next port-of-call is to give the OS a checkup. I recommend using Onyx Titanium Software for that. Repair permissions, run maintenance scripts, and optimize the system (update only). This operation will take quite a while first time.

Next, open whichever browser(s) you use, and empty the cache(s). Then, trash and delete any unnecessary/unwanted text files and pictures. Remember that the OS checks absolutely everything on startup. If you can reduce clutter, you'll reduce startup time.

Last thing for now - have you considered installing SMART Reporter? SMARTReporter (Mac) - Download. It's a simple little utility that reports constantly on the state of your hard drive.

Well, Hugh its over. Mr. Mac died early friday morning. I took your advice and downloaded, "ONYX" and ran it. After it completed its run thru it said my hard drive had an issue and needed repair and gave instructions on how to go about using the "Disk Utility". I ran the disk utility, went to the first aide tab and selected repair(probably should've waited). The disk utility was unable to repair the drive and said it had an error. After this I no longer could reboot at all, I even considered a reinstall, but no drive volume would appear for me to select. I took my machine to the PeachMac store for an evaluation and repair, but it was deemed cost prohibitive. Turns out The Power module and the logic board were failing as well as the hard driver failure. the repairs and parts were estimated to reach more than $800, plus any attempt to recover my data was another $95. I ended up buying a new, "Mac Mini" that has more power and capability than what I had in my G4. The new machine was priced at $599 and they were able to recover about 98% of my files. They waved the file recovery charge of $95 and gave me credit towards a 3 year Apple car plan that normally costs $149 for the difference or about $55. Ironically the New external hard drive I ordered to backup my system to, it arrived friday evening.... On another badly timed note, I won an auction on ebay thursday night for a "New" in the box never registerd version of Leopard 10.5.6 . I think in an effort to recover some of my expenses I'm gonna try and sale the software and memory I recently purchased and maybe part out my G4 tower. Thanks for you assistance, sorry it was to no avail in the end, although I learned a few things.

Chip