Machine for RAW Photography + HD Video

jupesingh · Apr 8, 2009

hi all,

i'm a newbie to the forum whose looking to buy a Mac for the first time; i've simply given up on vista.

i'm a UK-based portrait/wedding photographer who will also soon be doing some video work. i can see myself getting more into video over time.

i've searched other threads which have been very helpful but feel i still need more specific guidance. my needs/situation can be summed up as follows:

- i will be mostly retouching and batch-processing RAW files (via Lightroom and PS) which will be 20-40 MB in size.

- i will also want to edit 1080 HD video - mostly clips which will be 15 mins max in size (via Final Cut or Premiere Pro).

- i will be using this machine with one monitor (already have monitor) but would like the option to potentially add a 2nd down the line.

- i've disregarded the iMac because i don't want/need the screen and it seems upgradeability is limited and general performance may not be up to par.

- would a quad-core be enough or do i really need a 8-core? i want very good performance
but don't want to pay through the teeth needlessly for anything which will be overkill.

- that said, i still want to be able to add lots of RAM and generally be able to upgrade; i don't fancy splashing out on a new box any time soon.

- i already have a WD 2TB My Mirror ext. HD set to RAID 1 (7200 rpm). it is USB connection only and i would like to use this in the future.

- i need advice as to which is the best route re: uk 2nd hand machines; apple-store's refurbs seem pricey. ebay any good? any other route?

- that said, i don't mind waiting 1-3 months if it means a better, cheaper machine will turn up brand new at a very good price.

many thanks for even just reading my ramblings

jupesingh

Nethfel · Apr 8, 2009

Hi! Welcome to the forums!

jupesingh said:
i'm a newbie to the forum whose looking to buy a Mac for the first time; i've simply given up on vista.

Vista is an interesting beast, I know a lot of people are still using xp because of how much they dislike vista (or don't want the performance hit of vista while gaming)

- i will be mostly retouching and batch-processing RAW files (via Lightroom and PS) which will be 20-40 MB in size.

Sounds similar to my workflow, although I haven't gotten my PS for mac yet, conveniently enough the license key on lightroom works for either mac or pc, and since the program is downloadable from adobe, it's not a huge deal to install the mac version. Right now, I'm focusing on just lightroom for as much as I can until I can deal with getting PS.

- i will also want to edit 1080 HD video - mostly clips which will be 15 mins max in size (via Final Cut or Premiere Pro).

Ok

- i will be using this machine with one monitor (already have monitor) but would like the option to potentially add a 2nd down the line.

Easy for mac pro.

- i've disregarded the iMac because i don't want/need the screen and it seems upgradeability is limited and general performance may not be up to par.

I know a lot of people do handle their photo and at least to a certain degree video work on an iMac, but if you'd feel more comfortable with a Mac Pro, then no problem.

- would a quad-core be enough or do i really need a 8-core? i want very good performance
but don't want to pay through the teeth needlessly for anything which will be overkill.

A Quad will most likely give you enough performance. Especially if you're buying a new nahelem based machine. Let's face it - many people edit HD video on lower class machines without too much of an issue.

Now, I'll add my one bit that I usually suggest to anyone buying a mac pro - you can get a quad, but I'd suggest getting an 8 core if you can afford it - this way you will definitely have the power, and more longevity with the machine. The machine should be able to last through more generations of new software then a single quad - this may not be as important now, but as software takes more advantage of multiple cores it can become more of an issue. Also, the single quads are not upgradeable to 2xquads, from everything I've read they only have a single processor socket, so you're stuck with quad for life. Also on an 8 core, if you were to want to have your video editor open w/ hd and have photoshop and possibly lightroom open, you should get better performance then a 4 core as having them all open (which I could see as possible) could tax a system for resources depending on what they are all doing.

I don't know how effective premiere is at using multiple cores in its current version - I've heard that FC Pro uses multiple cores very efficiently, but I can't confirm that from personal use as I don't own FCP.

- that said, i still want to be able to add lots of RAM and generally be able to upgrade; i don't fancy splashing out on a new box any time soon.

Mac pro will give you the most ram upgrade capability. If you buy a new machine, it tops out at 32 Gigs, but you are using 8 memory sockets at that point which from what I've read about i7 technology (what is used in the new nahelem processors), it uses DDR3 as tripple channel, but if you have ram in sets of 2 (or 8) you will be using it as double channel - at least that's what I've understood from what I've read, this could be wrong and may require more research. The default new configs of Mac Pro comes with 3 or 6 sticks of ram which bears out the triple channel as those are 2 banks of 3 to make up the 6 sticks.

As I mentioned before tho, I would get the dual processors if you can afford it now tho as you can't add a second processor later AFAIK on the current models.

You can add and upgrade/change video cards, so that is fairly flexible. And the HD's are VERY easy to gain access to, it'd probably be cheaper to get a single drive and shop for filling the other bays.

- i already have a WD 2TB My Mirror ext. HD set to RAID 1 (7200 rpm). it is USB connection only and i would like to use this in the future.

Shouldn't be an issue, as long as the raid operation is transparent to the OS and not dependent on a driver in the OS. Now, if it's formatted as NTFS, you'll probably need to copy off what's on it and reformat the drive to either Fat32 or HFS+

- i need advice as to which is the best route re: uk 2nd hand machines; apple-store's refurbs seem pricey. ebay any good? any other route?

I can't comment on UK pricing or availability. I got my Mac Pro on ebay lightly used, still under warranty, and I consider myself very lucky as I got a great machine (I have an early 2008 model, not the new '09 model)

- that said, i don't mind waiting 1-3 months if it means a better, cheaper machine will turn up brand new at a very good price.

The only thing I could imagine dropping in price a bit more would be the older Mac Pro's.

If I were to buy used today, I wouldn't buy anything earlier then an early '08 for your needs because there are more video card options due to pcie 2.0 support. The 8 core early '08 will perform similar to / outperform a single quad '09 nahelem (depending on operations performed, etc.). An 8 core '09 will blow an '08 8 core away in terms of processing power.

My ranking for purchasing would be:

1st '09 2xquad (8 core) Mac Pro with either 6 gig or 12 gig (2x6 sticks) of ram
2nd '08 2xquad (8 core) Mac Pro with whatever amount of ram and you upgrade later (used or clearance).
3rd '09 1xquad (4 core) Mac Pro with 3 gigs or 6 gigs (2x3 sticks) of ram.

Any configuration:

Any video card should do, ATI or NVidia, since most of the heavy lifting will be done by the cpu for your needs, also you're not gaming from what you've said, and you'll be color calibrating your display which either card should support a profile for. You are limited to apple supported video cards tho, so check your software to see if they suggest a certain level of video card before deciding.

1 HD should be enough unless you get a great deal. It will probably be cheaper to add your own HD's later.

No matter which one you get, if you buy clearance or used, make sure it's still under warranty if possible, although granted many buy used machines way out of warranty, it never hurts on a machine this big and important and expensive to repair to make sure you are covered.

I'm sure you'll be happy with it. I love my Mac pro, I use it in OSX about 75% of the time right now (other 25% I'm playing games in windows that aren't avail for OSX). I now do all my photo work on OSX rather then windows, and I have a temporary video editor until I can replace my old one (Pinnacle Liquid Edition Pro 6.1 ) with something comparable (like FCPro or Premiere for Mac)

Hope this helps a little!

jupesingh · Apr 8, 2009

Nethfel,

You're an absolute star - thank you for your detailed reply. That is a great help.

Any more thoughts anyone esp. buying UK?

Douglass · May 11, 2009

Re :

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jupesingh · May 22, 2009

So it has begun...

Accidentally posted - see below (getting used to safari ;-)

jupesingh · May 22, 2009

So it has begun...

Hi,

Given this thread includes words such as 'photography', 'raw' and 'mac pro', i thought it would make sense for other newbies like me if i put all related questions here - easier to search for and find.

Well, I took delivery last night of my almost brand new 'less than 2 months since it shipped to it's last and only previous owner' Mac Pro (big thanks for all the useful advice and support Nethfel):

8 Core 2.8Ghz (2008)

8 Gb Ram (8 x 1GB)

320Gb WD Model: Caviar SE WDC WD3200AAJS-41VWA1 - Specs: Newegg.com - Western Digital Caviar SE WD3200AAJS 320GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive - Internal Hard Drives

750Gb Seagate Model: Barracuda ST3750640NS - Specs: ST3750640NS Barracuda® ES SATA 3.0Gb/s 750-GB Hard Drive | Seagate)

NVidia 8800GT 512MB

Airpot Extreme on-board

Applecare 'til 2012

Here are initial questions:

- I've read this thread re: clean install:

Leopard How-to: Clean install

thing is, i don't think i ended up doing a completely new install.

- Given i will be doing photography and hd video work, what's the best way i should do the following:

> Set up the hard drives (OS and apps on one with partition? with other for data or scratch?)

> Use my existing WD My Mirror 2Tb ext HD. This is currently formatted for Windows and is about 12% full (it's running mirrored not striped). If it makes sense, i don't even mind pulling the drives out and using them in the Mac - i've been told they need to be re-formatted.

> Are there any int/ext HD drives i should buy straight away given i will wind up having to set-up a particular way at some point.

i don't mind having a workflow whereby i use particular drives for work i'm currently working on (these could be striped) and others which u them move the data onto (mirrored so i always have two copies). if the speed differences are not the noticeable then i would prefer to use on a totally mirrored set-up. i would have one external drive off-site which has one copy of all my images/video. i don;t enjoy or trust dvd burning stuff esp. given how cheap ext hd's are nowadays.

to start off with i will be using Lightroom and i-movie. In the near future I will be using PS, FC Express and eventually probably FC Pro. Questions:

> How should I set-up hard-drives/fine-tune system performance given the above work environment?

up until today, i was using lightroom via a laptop. all Lightroom catalogs and images were on the WD My Mirror 2TB (mirrored) and so i simply plugged in and plugged out when working.

other factors to consider is that i will be editing mostly RAW files which on average will be 20-45 Mb in size. in future if i'm using PS with layer etc. this will obviously increase these file-sizes.

any responses are much appreciated.

ps - if anyone thinks i should move this to the photography sub-forum, pls let me know.

pps - loving the mac. safari seems nice but google need to quickly get chrome out there as that's the only thing i'm missing from my PC days lol

jupesingh · May 22, 2009

So it has begun...

accident duplicate of above - so have deleted text. apologies.