• Welcome to the Off-Topic/Schweb's Lounge

    In addition to the Mac-Forums Community Guidelines, there are a few things you should pay attention to while in The Lounge.

    Lounge Rules
    • If your post belongs in a different forum, please post it there.
    • While this area is for off-topic conversations, that doesn't mean that every conversation will be permitted. The moderators will, at their sole discretion, close or delete any threads which do not serve a beneficial purpose to the community.

    Understand that while The Lounge is here as a place to relax and discuss random topics, that doesn't mean we will allow any topic. Topics which are inflammatory, hurtful, or otherwise clash with our Mac-Forums Community Guidelines will be removed.

Why do people hate me for using a Mac...

Status
Not open for further replies.

cwa107


Retired Staff
Joined
Dec 20, 2006
Messages
27,042
Reaction score
812
Points
113
Location
Lake Mary, Florida
Your Mac's Specs
14" MacBook Pro M1 Pro, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD
I think that if it wasn't for the game market in the first place, you'd not have the perception that PC's have to be upgraded every year to stay current.

I mean, the government mostly still uses XP Pro and Office 2003. I'm running on a 2.8ghz P4 and 512 of RAM. This computer is at least four years old. Granted, it gets hung up on occasion, but that's because of all the crap they have loaded on here for security and virus protection and other services.

But for normal computing it works fine.

Same here. I'm running on a Dell Optiplex GX270 at work. I think it has a 2.4GHz P4. The machine is about 6 years old. With XP, Office 2003 and 1GB of RAM, it runs like a top.

Now, I do reimage it periodically just to keep it running clean, but I put this machine through the wringer on a daily basis and it does just fine.
 

vansmith

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
19,924
Reaction score
559
Points
113
Location
Queensland
Your Mac's Specs
Mini (2014, 2018, 2020), MBA (2020), iPad Pro (2018), iPhone 13 Pro Max, Watch (S6)
I think that if it wasn't for the game market in the first place, you'd not have the perception that PC's have to be upgraded every year to stay current.

I mean, the government mostly still uses XP Pro and Office 2003. I'm running on a 2.8ghz P4 and 512 of RAM. This computer is at least four years old. Granted, it gets hung up on occasion, but that's because of all the crap they have loaded on here for security and virus protection and other services.

But for normal computing it works fine.
True, but a model T will get you place to place ;). Better yet, an El Camino could get you from place to place but would you really want to drive one to work? Once people are shown that something is "better" or "faster", they adopt. Why buy an iPhone when a Nokia from 2002 would get the job done? While the Nokia gets the job done, people don't want the basic. They want features, many of which they may never use, just so they can "keep with the times".

I'm still a little worried about your first statement. Pushes to upgrade, as inconvenient as it may be, work wonders in encouraging innovation and decreases in prices. Sure, Vista is not many people's favourite OS, but it has done wonders in driving down costs in hardware and at the time, encouraged better efficiency from computers.
 
Joined
Apr 4, 2007
Messages
2,641
Reaction score
134
Points
63
Location
Durtburg, WV
Your Mac's Specs
Sooper Fast!
True, but a model T will get you place to place ;). Better yet, an El Camino could get you from place to place but would you really want to drive one to work? Once people are shown that something is "better" or "faster", they adopt. Why buy an iPhone when a Nokia from 2002 would get the job done? While the Nokia gets the job done, people don't want the basic. They want features, many of which they may never use, just so they can "keep with the times".

I'm still a little worried about your first statement. Pushes to upgrade, as inconvenient as it may be, work wonders in encouraging innovation and decreases in prices. Sure, Vista is not many people's favourite OS, but it has done wonders in driving down costs in hardware and at the time, encouraged better efficiency from computers.

100 year old technology vs. ten year old technology, not a very accurate comparison. But I did just buy a 1999 Suzuki TL1000R for $500. No payments and very cheap insurance is a good incentive. Sure a 2009 Yamaha YZFR1 has drive by wire throttle tech, a cross plane crank, and a ton of other improvements, but for what I do, the '99 Zook will be just as good as the '09 YZFR1 for 24 x's less than the cost of the YZFR1.

But there's this perception (cue Justin Long Apple ads) that PC's have to be upgraded with more ram, faster processors, etc... every year or so or they won't be able to work properly, unlike Macs, which don't.

Of course, unless you're doing something like gaming, where there's always something new to push even the most up to date computers, then it's simply not true.

Just like if you're browsing the net and using work processor software, email, what have you, you could get by with a g3 imac. If you're editing 21mp photos or recording bands with multiple tracks, then you'd probably be pushing it and would need an upgrade.

The downside though, is that Apple computers are not very upgradable over all. Some are, but most aren't beyond HDD's and RAM. That's why I don't mind their notebooks. A standard PC notebook doesn't really have an upgrade path either.

Granted, companies like Dell and HP often have crappy cases with non standard mounting points and such, but you can either build your own or buy from a computer from a company, where when a new processor technology comes out, you just buy a board, a chip, and RAM and save the $1000 on buying a completely new system.

Is it possible to switch out the motherboard in a Mac Pro? If so, is there choices, or do you have to purchase an Apple MB from Apple, for Apple's prices?
 

vansmith

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
19,924
Reaction score
559
Points
113
Location
Queensland
Your Mac's Specs
Mini (2014, 2018, 2020), MBA (2020), iPad Pro (2018), iPhone 13 Pro Max, Watch (S6)
But there's this perception (cue Justin Long Apple ads) that PC's have to be upgraded with more ram, faster processors, etc... every year or so or they won't be able to work properly, unlike Macs, which don't.
As much as I like to avoid saying that one OS is better than the others (what is better is incredibly subjective and based on circumstance), I do agree. Apple has done a much better job at ensuring that Leopard is accessible to a larger proportion of its users by keeping the system requirements relatively low while still ensuring that there is innovation. Juxtapose this with Vista and the difference becomes glaringly obvious.

This perception that upgrades need to happen work well for me though. Hooray for cheaper RAM! :).
 
Joined
Apr 9, 2009
Messages
2,073
Reaction score
68
Points
48
Location
Ithaca NY
Your Mac's Specs
13 inch alMacBook 2GHz C2D 4G DDR3, 1.25GHz G4 eMac
Leopard to Snow Leopard reminds me of Jaguar to Panther. Really make the stuff work well. Maybe give it a shiney new skin, maybe not... either way. Bring it on, I'm ready.
 
Joined
May 10, 2007
Messages
502
Reaction score
13
Points
18
Your Mac's Specs
Mac pro quad 2.66 / G5 1.8
I'm still a little worried about your first statement. Pushes to upgrade, as inconvenient as it may be, work wonders in encouraging innovation and decreases in prices. Sure, Vista is not many people's favourite OS, but it has done wonders in driving down costs in hardware and at the time, encouraged better efficiency from computers.

Fair point, but I suspect in the case of Vista this really isn't happening. Seems to me that people have taken a look at Vista and decided the gain they'll get for uprgading all their hardware isn't worth the cost.

As I say, I haven't even tried it, but are there actually any benefits to Vista over XP? Again, absolutely the worng place to ask, but would anybody care to defend Vista?
 

cwa107


Retired Staff
Joined
Dec 20, 2006
Messages
27,042
Reaction score
812
Points
113
Location
Lake Mary, Florida
Your Mac's Specs
14" MacBook Pro M1 Pro, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD
Fair point, but I suspect in the case of Vista this really isn't happening. Seems to me that people have taken a look at Vista and decided the gain they'll get for uprgading all their hardware isn't worth the cost.

As I say, I haven't even tried it, but are there actually any benefits to Vista over XP? Again, absolutely the worng place to ask, but would anybody care to defend Vista?

Although there is nothing major under the hood, there are a few significant things:

1. The entire GDI was overhauled. This allows Windows to do dynamic scaling of icons and text without pixelation or distortion. This is very important if you're running a very high resolution display and you need to scale font and image size up (like when reading web pages).

2. DirectX 10 is exclusive to Vista (call me a conspiracy theorist, but I believe this was a deliberate move to push the gamers into upgrading).

3. UAC, love it or hate it, DOES add some degree of security to what was otherwise a free-for-all for malware. Now I've since read that there are ways for programs to get around it, but certainly less sophisticated spyware/adware will be defeated by it if the user is vigilant.

Aside from the UI changes (Gadgets, ribbon interfaces and the Aero interface), those are the major differences. Whether it's worth the upgrade for the average user is dubious, but there are some substantial differences.
 
Joined
Jan 27, 2007
Messages
5,658
Reaction score
159
Points
63
Location
*Brisvegas*
Your Mac's Specs
17 inch 2 GHz C2D imac (5,1) with 3GB DDR2 RAM, X1600 (128MB memory) GPU - OSX 10.6.3
cwa107 I agree with you totally. But for those who want to move from XP to vista, do they get the home or the business or the premium etc edition? And which editions have these new features and which don't. Still confuses me a little.
 

cwa107


Retired Staff
Joined
Dec 20, 2006
Messages
27,042
Reaction score
812
Points
113
Location
Lake Mary, Florida
Your Mac's Specs
14" MacBook Pro M1 Pro, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD
cwa107 I agree with you totally. But for those who want to move from XP to vista, do they get the home or the business or the premium etc edition? And which editions have these new features and which don't. Still confuses me a little.

That seems absolutely absurd to me still. I understand the reason they wanted to market it that way, but in my opinion, they shot themselves in the foot. Seeing stuff like that completely turns off the retail market. It also confuses the heck out of new PC shoppers, who don't see Windows as a "feature", as much as they do a means to an end.

In my opinion, it makes very little sense to market an operating system the way you would a traditional software package (like Office).
 

dtravis7


Retired Staff
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
30,133
Reaction score
703
Points
113
Location
Modesto, Ca.
Your Mac's Specs
MacMini M-1 MacOS Monterey, iMac 2010 27"Quad I7 , MBPLate2011, iPad Pro10.5", iPhoneSE
All I know for sure about the Vista versions is Home Basic has no AERO interface. I am sure it's missing a few other features also.
 
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
2,132
Reaction score
63
Points
48
Location
Lincoln Nebraska
Your Mac's Specs
late 08 macbook 2.0 4gig 320hdd10.7.3 32 gig iPhone 4s
Oh but the money I have made over the last 2 years upgrading hardware for the people who just had to have vista on their 3 year old gateways and dells !!!!!!!!!!
 
Joined
Jun 20, 2007
Messages
337
Reaction score
11
Points
18
Location
Land of Rising Sun
Your Mac's Specs
MB White 160GB, 2GB RAM,
Neighbours Envy..... Owner's Pride.... Mac is the way to go.
 
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
173
Reaction score
4
Points
18
Your Mac's Specs
eMac 1.42 GHz, 512 MB RAM, 40 GB HDD, OS X 10.4
All I know for sure about the Vista versions is Home Basic has no AERO interface. I am sure it's missing a few other features also.

Eh, it's decent. I'm not sure what the whole "Aero" interface is exactly anyway, but it doesn't seem like something one would miss terribly.
 

vansmith

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
19,924
Reaction score
559
Points
113
Location
Queensland
Your Mac's Specs
Mini (2014, 2018, 2020), MBA (2020), iPad Pro (2018), iPhone 13 Pro Max, Watch (S6)
Eh, it's decent. I'm not sure what the whole "Aero" interface is exactly anyway, but it doesn't seem like something one would miss terribly.
Here you go.

While I agree that UI improvements are hardly a reason to switch, many people use them as a selling point (think about the recognition Macs get for looking the way they do). If you believe Mark Shuttleworth, "pretty" is a feature.

There are some useful features of Aero that I would like to see incorporated, primarily a preview of the window when you mouse over a minimized app (live thumbnails). Most other features are simply eye-candy but do make Windows look nice.
 

dtravis7


Retired Staff
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
30,133
Reaction score
703
Points
113
Location
Modesto, Ca.
Your Mac's Specs
MacMini M-1 MacOS Monterey, iMac 2010 27"Quad I7 , MBPLate2011, iPad Pro10.5", iPhoneSE
Flip-3d is the closest Windows has some to Expose on OSX. It's better than nothing. I do like the icon preview also. The rest I can take or leave.
 
Joined
Apr 4, 2007
Messages
2,641
Reaction score
134
Points
63
Location
Durtburg, WV
Your Mac's Specs
Sooper Fast!
So I purchased a new "computer" today.

HP media smart server with Windows Home Server. It's NAS for my Vista box, XP box, and primarily my MBP.

Is this considered an identity crisis by your guys?
 

dtravis7


Retired Staff
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
30,133
Reaction score
703
Points
113
Location
Modesto, Ca.
Your Mac's Specs
MacMini M-1 MacOS Monterey, iMac 2010 27"Quad I7 , MBPLate2011, iPad Pro10.5", iPhoneSE
So I purchased a new "computer" today.

HP media smart server with Windows Home Server. It's NAS for my Vista box, XP box, and primarily my MBP.

Is this considered an identity crisis by your guys?


Well.... You could have purchased an Apple XServe for ONLY $3,599.00 :D

JK

How much did the HP set you back? Are the HP server products pretty nice? I just don't like some of the cheaper HP systems that much but I am sure the better stuff is fine.

What is Windows Home Server like? Never got to mess with it.

My server here at the house is an home built AMD system that runs Windows 2k server. Been a very reliable system.
 
Joined
Apr 4, 2007
Messages
2,641
Reaction score
134
Points
63
Location
Durtburg, WV
Your Mac's Specs
Sooper Fast!
Well.... You could have purchased an Apple XServe for only $3,599.00 :D

JK

How much did the HP set you back? Are the HP server products pretty nice? I just don't like some of the cheaper HP systems that much but I am sure the better stuff is fine.

What is Windows Home Server like? Never got to mess with it.

My server here at the house is an home built AMD system that runs Windows 2k server. Been a very reliable system.

$499.99 shipped. I had to add something $0.01 or greater to my order to qualify for 6 months non interest so I got a 2gb stick of ddr3 RAM for my MBP.

It's based on Server 2003 SP2, but it's more user friendly. When you had drives, it adds them to a collective pool showing how much free space you have instead of assigning drive letters and having to manually setup RAID configurations. It also uses something like RAID 1, so if you're using more than one drive and a drive fails, you don't lose data. I'm going to upgrade to four 1tb drives eventually.
 

dtravis7


Retired Staff
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
30,133
Reaction score
703
Points
113
Location
Modesto, Ca.
Your Mac's Specs
MacMini M-1 MacOS Monterey, iMac 2010 27"Quad I7 , MBPLate2011, iPad Pro10.5", iPhoneSE
Sounds nice to me and nice price also! I might have to check out home server for my network here.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Shop Amazon


Shop for your Apple, Mac, iPhone and other computer products on Amazon.
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon and affiliated sites.
Top