Help with first Mac Pro purchase, new or used?

Hey all,

First time poster, but I'm sure once I make a purchase decision I'll be around a lot more often. (=

I'm trying to compare between buying a used Mac Pro (loaded from late 2007) or a new Mac Pro with Nehalem, I'll post both configurations and I'm looking for insight on overall speed, expected life, and best bang for buck.

Used - $2300 CDN
Processor: 2 x Dual Core Intel Xeon 2.66 GHz CPU's (Quad core total)
Memory: 13 GB DDR2 (can support 32GB max) 6x2GB + 2x512MB
System Hard Drive: 250 GB system drive
Production Drives: 3x500GB
Optical Drive: Double Layer SuperDrive (DVD burner)
Graphics: ATI Radeon x1900 512MB Graphics and NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT 256MB
Networking: Gigabit Ethernet 10/100/1000 plus Airport Extreme wireless card
Operating System: Apple Mac OS X 10.5.6 (Leopard)
No warranty remaining

New - $3090 + tax
Processor: One 2.66GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
Memory: 6GB DDR3 (3x2GB)
System Hard Drive: 640GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
Graphic Card: ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB
Optical Drive: One 18x SuperDrive
Networking: Gigabit Ethernet 10/100/1000 (no Airport extreme)

-----------------------

I do graphic design including interfaces and themes for mobile applications/devices, web design/coding, lots of music and movies, and lots of internet browsing. I don't play games or edit video. I will be running Windows in the background as I absolutely cannot avoid it.

I realize both of these machines may be overkill, but they're within my budget and I already have a great 24" monitor to use so I'm not interested in an iMac.

Questions:

1) Is it better to have Two Dual Core Xeons @ 2.66GHz or one Quad Core Nehalem at 2.66GHz?
2) Is it better to have 12GB of DDR2 or 6GB of DDR3?
3) Even though I don't game, which has the better graphic card layout?
4) If I buy the used without warranty, I'm worried about reliability. Are Mac Pro's generally reliable?

I would appreciate any insight on this, I'm torn in half.

Cheers and thanks in advance!

Both computer systems you listed are very nice & capable machines.

The older Mac Pro you listed has an impressive amount of "extras" with it for the price (I have seen "bare bones" Mac Pro's sell for that much on E-Bay).

But these "extras" are not (in my humble opinion) a replacement for the hardware advancements in the new Mac Pro.

If as you say both machines are within your budget...then I would say get the new Mac Pro. You can always upgrade the ram & hard drives later if necessary.

If purchasing a new Mac Pro was not in your budget, then I would say get the used Mac Pro.

Here is a link to some benchmarks for your review:

Updated Mac Pro Benchmarks and Video of Internals - Mac Forums

As you can see from the benchmarks...the new Quad 2.66 is quite a bit faster than the older Quad 2.66...especially in "multi-thread" mode. Software in the near future (Mac OS included) will be more "multi-thread" oriented...and thus, the new 2.66 Mac Pro will be a better performer than the older Mac Pro.

Hope this helps,

- Nick

Also to keep in mind - there is a serious difference in hardware between the older model you list and even the '08. If it were me and I magically didn't have the mac pro I currently have - I would either look at a clearance '08 or one of the new '09's.

Reasons for both:

* faster cpu options
* more core options (4 or 8 core on '08 or '08 vs primarily dual core options (although I guess there was a single 8 core build option looking at the specs at apple) )
* faster ram (800MHz ram '08 vs 667MHz ram pre '08 vs 1066MHz ram '09)
* more ram (16GB max pre 08, 32GB '08 and '09)
* larger data transport per cycle ('09 mac with triple channel configuration vs older models with dual channel)
* faster bus speed (1600MHz '08 vs 1333MHz older (new '09 model doesn't have the same technology due to the i7 design removing the traditional fsb) )
* better video card options ('08 and '09 have pcie 2.0, pre 08 does not)

IMHO, either get the new mac pro, or if you can't afford it look for an '08 mac pro.

hastings said:

I do graphic design including interfaces and themes for mobile applications/devices, web design/coding, lots of music and movies, and lots of internet browsing. I don't play games or edit video. I will be running Windows in the background as I absolutely cannot avoid it.

I realize both of these machines may be overkill, but they're within my budget and I already have a great 24" monitor to use so I'm not interested in an iMac.

Click to expand...

While you may have the money, a Mac Pro IMHO is overkill for this. Why spend the extra money if you don't have to? While I know you said you aren't interested in the iMac, that would be my recommendation. You can still use your old monitor in a dual monitor setup but you'll need an adapter. This setup will be more than adequate for your needs plus you'll have two monitors. If you need to run all of that at once, my recommendation would be to make sure you have enough RAM (go more than 2GB). Spend the money you save on something else or send it to me if you don't want it .

Wow, great feedback. Definitely more than I expected.

After looking at the benchmarks and the various pros/cons listed I think I'm pretty much set on the new Mac Pro.

Here's what I'm pretty set on:

# One 2.66GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
# 6GB (3x2GB)
# 640GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
# NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 512MB (not upgrading)
# One 18x SuperDrive

For $2920 + taxes. (that includes my student discount)

Will I have a difficult time finding an aftermarket USB wireless N receiver for Macs? If so I'm going to just buy the built in airport card.

Secondly, is there anywhere in Canada that I can buy a Mac Pro from outside of the Apple store? It's a lot of money and if I contact a smaller Apple reseller do you think I'll be able to beat my $200 education discount? (do they offer this discount at the Apple store even?)

@ vansmith

I like overkill, besides I don't like how restrictive iMacs are in terms of upgrades, I like all the options I have with the Mac Pro. That and I don't have enough room on my desk for 2 24" monitors. =P

Also, if I drop down to 3GB of RAM (3x1GB), can I use this after market memory?

Crucial PC8500 1066MHz 6GB DDR3 Triple Channel Desktop Memory Kit - 6144MB (3 x 2048MB), 240 Pin CT3KIT25664BA1067 in Canada at TigerDirect.ca

I understand that the Mac Pro has eight memory slots, so would I be able to use 3 x 1GB and 3 x 2GB for a total of 9GB of RAM? It knocks the price down to $2752 CDN before I buy the extra RAM for $130.

Cheers and thanks

The ram, probably not. Although, when just looking at the Mac Pro in terms of general specs, it just says "3 GB Ram" or "6 GB Ram", it's actually ECC ram, not just any off the shelf ram like that link.

You'd need something like...

CT3KIT12872BB1067S - 3GB kit (1GBx3), 240-pin DIMM , DDR3 PC3-8500 from Crucial.com

or

CT3KIT25672BB1067S - 6GB kit (2GBx3), 240-pin DIMM , DDR3 PC3-8500 from Crucial.com

Even then, you might have to do some research to make sure they're compatible.

I don't know about mixmatching sizes in the new mac pro.

This will help you find a place to buy one.

You might be able to negotiate a better price (especially for a workstation like the MP) but it may not be much. It all depends on who you talk to and where you go to buy your MP.

hastings said:

I like overkill, besides I don't like how restrictive iMacs are in terms of upgrades, I like all the options I have with the Mac Pro.

Click to expand...

You hit the "nail on the head"...so to speak!

The current iMac's are very good, but can be very limiting (upgrade-wise)...and the iMac will be obsolete WAYYY before the Mac Pro!

A 2009 Mac Pro will serve you well for a very long time!!!

Congrats if that's definitely the computer you're going to get!

- Nick

Nethfel said:

Also to keep in mind - there is a serious difference in hardware between the older model you list and even the '08. If it were me and I magically didn't have the mac pro I currently have - I would either look at a clearance '08 or one of the new '09's.

Reasons for both:

* faster cpu options
* more core options (4 or 8 core on '08 or '08 vs primarily dual core options (although I guess there was a single 8 core build option looking at the specs at apple) )
* faster ram (800MHz ram '08 vs 667MHz ram pre '08 vs 1066MHz ram '09)
* more ram (16GB max pre 08, 32GB '08 and '09)
* larger data transport per cycle ('09 mac with triple channel configuration vs older models with dual channel)
* faster bus speed (1600MHz '08 vs 1333MHz older (new '09 model doesn't have the same technology due to the i7 design removing the traditional fsb) )
* better video card options ('08 and '09 have pcie 2.0, pre 08 does not)

IMHO, either get the new mac pro, or if you can't afford it look for an '08 mac pro.

Click to expand...

One more HUGE difference is that the hard drive bays are connected DIRECTLY to the motherboard. This undoubtedly helps with speed, but you will find it difficult to utilize a third party RAID card when THERE IS NO IPASS CABLE!

Sorry about raising my voice, it was an expensive lesson and I wanted to get that out of my system.