Why I don't like the iPod

Before I even start, let me state my intentions here. I am sharing my thoughts just to give some insight into the "other side" of the portable music market. Given that there's two groups: the Ipod, then everything else.

I never jumped on the IPod bandwagon. Although it has incredible design, a great interface, and easy controls, I didn't like it because of one thing. You can probably guess.. iTunes. I can't stand being forced to use a piece of software I don't like. I have never liked the way it organizes the music. I seeked a player that would allow me to use whatever I wanted.

Early on I used Creative Labs players. The little Zen Muvo that plugs in like a thumb drive and only use a AAA battery. I had a 1GB unit, and loved it, until I stepped on it in work boots... It didn't survive and Creative laughed at my warranty request. (Had to try).

Just like I don't like the IPod, I don't like the Zune. Zune marketplace doesn't appeal to me.

When I heard Sony was selling a player that wasn't tied to their own crapware they used to peddle with mp3 players, I investigated. Sony's newer walkmans are very similar to the Zune and IPod. With an interface thats just as easy as the Ipod, a body thinner than a Zune, and a metal housing like the IPod, I was sold. I have the 8Gb NWZ-A818 and love it. The battery lasts forever, the screen is awesome, it has a powerful headphone amp, and sound controls that blow away a simple equalizer. The interface is (I dare say) superior to the Ipods. When I show people my walkman, most say they didn't know Sony had anything like that. No advertising?

Now, for the iTunes fans out there, you won't like to hear that in my experience I like WMP11 better than iTunes. I've used Winamp and don't like it. I say that there is no easier to use media library as WMP11. I plug in my walkman, it syncs my latest playlist updates at the desired bitrate, and I move on.

Usually people are shocked when I say I'm an IPod hater, so I thought there would be some interest.

Why would you be locked into iTunes? It's not the only media player that works with iPods.

cwa107 said:

Why would you be locked into iTunes? It's not the only media player that works with iPods.

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I am aware of this, and I have seen a few alternatives my friends use.... Floola, songbird, and yamipod. I don't think they are that impressive.

If only Apple would unlock the IPod.

Why would you let a media player on your computer ruin your experience with a PMP? That's like saying I don't want to eat at a favourite restaurant because the plates aren't served properly.

How often do you seriously connect your PMP to your computer?

Before I bought my first iPod, I had a Dell DJ (15GB) as I was (and to some extent, still am) a big Dell fan. The DJ was a nice device, but what really caught my eye about the iPod was the sheer number of third party devices out there for it.

My goal in switching off of CDs and over to an MP3 player was to be able to take my entire music collection with me, wherever I go. That was the "killer app" so to speak. But I found using the DJ in my car to be very cumbersome.

Although iTunes is not the best example of a media player UI (I prefer WinAmp, if you must know), I can deal with it for precisely the reason Vansmith mentioned above. And with an iPod adapter in my car that integrates into the factory stereo, emulating an XM radio, I have full control over the iPod through my stereo and steering wheel controls, with text display on the screen. That to me is well worth the trade off of having to deal with iTunes' eccentricities. Although I will say, that with the addition of "Genius" to iTunes, I do find it more compelling. I love finding new music that I had forgotten about or never heard of before, based on what I play.

I'd have a hard time buying a Sony media player. These are the same guys that introduced us to the most draconian DRM schemes ever, complete with rootkits! To me, Sony is an also-ran, I'd sooner go with a Zune, which is not all that bad of a device, despite how poorly it's been received.

vansmith said:

Why would you let a media player on your computer ruin your experience with a PMP? That's like saying I don't want to eat at a favourite restaurant because the plates aren't served properly.

How often do you seriously connect your PMP to your computer?

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Mostly, on principle. I don't believe that one should have to be limited in what software he or she uses.

I usually switch up and modify my playlists every couple of days. I do not want to(and cannot) take my entire library with me. I have about 120Gb of high variable bitrate (300-400kbps) 2-pass encoded music. Some PMPs will not play that high a bitrate or if they do it eats the battery faster. My entire collection of music is from real CDs. I don't download. I know that 80 years from now I will be able to play a CD. I can't say that about a sound file on my hard drive. With that, I am not on top of the bell curve of people with music libraries. So a PMP that is supposed to fit the biggest part of the curve doesn't fit me. Thats really it.

Not that I'm defending (and I'm NOT) Sony's past DRM and software practices, I think their new walkmans have made my day.

And keep in mind, this is not a bash on the IPod from me. It's a great device and many people love it. Just the biggest complaint I hear about them is iTunes.

EDIT: Of course, I may not be alive in 80 years. But a CD will still play in.. say 70 years.

Win+Mac_Dude said:

I know that 80 years from now I will be able to play a CD.

EDIT: Of course, I may not be alive in 80 years. But a CD will still play in.. say 70 years.

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Are you sure about that? Can you still buy a VCR? The CD just celebrated 25 years. The VHS lasted about 31 years. I find it hard to believe that, with the rapid growth of digital distribution, that the CD has another 70 years in it. I'd be surprised if it had 10.

I can't take my whole library with me either. The question is whether you listen to all the music in your library on a regular enough basis to justify needing all of it with you at all times.

Ultimately, I don't have any problems with your objections to the iPod. I just find your arguments to be a little weak. For instance, you can get a 120GB iPod - that solves your space problems. I do acknowledge that there are other players on the market, perhaps some better than the iPod but using iTunes as an argument is not very logical.

vansmith said:

Are you sure about that? Can you still buy a VCR? The CD just celebrated 25 years. The VHS lasted about 31 years. I find it hard to believe that, with the rapid growth of digital distribution, that the CD has another 70 years in it. I'd be surprised if it had 10.

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Optical disc based media isn't going away in the next 100 years. It's too inexpensive, too easy, too reliable when compared with flash memory or hard drive storage systems. Digital distribution may continue to gain ground, but there's always a market for hard media. You can't resell an mp3 file at a rummage sale or Amazon marketplace after you are through listening to it.

Can you buy a VCR? Have you been to Best Buy or Wal-Mart recently? Yes you can. And you can still buy VHS tapes. The cheapest way to time shift your TV shows is still with a programmed VCR that you probably already have in your house.

I was just sharing with the forum why I don't like the iPod. For you to tell me that I'm not thinking logically about it nonsense. With the iPod, you have iTunes and iTunes is a big turn off for a lot of people. I could say you are not logical with your thoughts on optical media.

Win+Mac_Dude said:

I know that 80 years from now I will be able to play a CD. I can't say that about a sound file on my hard drive.

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Sorry, but there's absolutely no way you can say this with any more certainty than I can guarantee a music file's integrity/playability in 80 years.

And keep in mind, this is not a bash on the IPod from me. It's a great device and many people love it. Just the biggest complaint I hear about them is iTunes.

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Because iTunes utterly fails as a management system.

Win+Mac_Dude said:

Optical disc based media isn't going away in the next 100 years.

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It's already disappearing... Any company that deals with media is figuring out that shipping a DVD isn't going to be profitable for very long. The industry is trending towards online downloads.

With the iPod, you have iTunes and iTunes is a big turn off for a lot of people. I could say you are not logical with your thoughts on optical media.

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Out of curiosity have you used RockBox? By far the best iPod OS alternative. Too bad it doesn't run on the newer models, but the 5.5g's are better in the first place.

Win+Mac_Dude said:

Optical disc based media isn't going away in the next 100 years. It's too inexpensive, too easy, too reliable when compared with flash memory or hard drive storage systems.

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Inexpensive? Sure but is it more inexpensive than digital downloads? Market changes are driven, primarily, by costs. If something is cheaper it will be produced as long as it satisfies the market.

How many songs can you store on a HD compared to a CD? As an example, let's take a look at this 1.5TB HD at $160. Let's also take the new U2 CD at $15. That CD has 11 songs so a per song cost of ~= $1.36/song. Now, using Apple's 30,000 songs/120GB calculation (according to them, this is 30,000 4 minute AAC songs with a 128-kbps bitrate), that HD can hold ~= 384,000 songs. That is ~= $0.00042/song. So, if you want to claim CDs are inexpensive, then HDs are <insert extreme epithet of your choice> cheap.

Second, they are easy? What do you mean by easy? For me, this means it is easier to get a song from the record store than from the computer I am sitting in front of right now ;D.

Third, reliable? Define reliability. It's easier for me to step on a CD and break it compared to a HD that is either in my MB or on my desk in an enclosure. Sure, you may have to replace a HD more often than you do a CD but at least HD's are easier to find (especially if you consider replacing an old record) and, as illustrated earlier, the costs of buying a replacement would still be worth it if you take into account the cost/song calculation.

Win+Mac_Dude said:

Can you buy a VCR? Have you been to Best Buy or Wal-Mart recently? Yes you can. And you can still buy VHS tapes.

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Perhaps but how many of those movies are new? The last company to ship VHS tapes stopped not too long ago. See here and here for example (the LA Times article linked to in the second link is good too). If no new titles come out, how much more use will VHS serve? This is even more problematic considering that many old titles are now put on DVD. In fact, I watched Live and Let Die last night and it was released in 1973.

Win+Mac_Dude said:

I was just sharing with the forum why I don't like the iPod. For you to tell me that I'm not thinking logically about it nonsense. With the iPod, you have iTunes and iTunes is a big turn off for a lot of people. I could say you are not logical with your thoughts on optical media.

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Like I said, I have no objections to your dislike of the iPod. I'm just arguing that your argument is illogical because you're arguing that you don't like the iPod because of iTunes. This is like arguing that you won't fly at all because you don't like Airline A when there are 4 other airlines you could choose from. If you want to claim that my argument is illogical, then please illustrate to me how it is instead of saying it could be.

Listen, I'm not trying to be mean (far from it). Don't expect a warm reception though or an easy time making your argument on a forum where many people probably use iPods as their PMP of choice. I am very open to being swayed - I have no choice considering the academic program I am in. You have to substantiate your claims though.

Win+Mac_Dude said:

Now, for the iTunes fans out there, you won't like to hear that in my experience I like WMP11 better than iTunes. I've used Winamp and don't like it. I say that there is no easier to use media library as WMP11. I plug in my walkman, it syncs my latest playlist updates at the desired bitrate, and I move on.

Usually people are shocked when I say I'm an IPod hater, so I thought there would be some interest.

Click to expand...

Why in the world would I care what software you use to manage your digital library or what your choice of PMP is? Use what works for you, I'll use what works for me, pretty simple.

What I don't get is why you chose to come to an Apple based (and biased) forum and post a long winded, and ultimately pointless, thread about why you dislike the iPod and iTunes. It seems to me that your intent was one of two things:

1) Stir up trouble.

2) Get attention.

It seems you have succeeded at #2 but failed at #1. Use what you want, but why do we care? There are much better places out there to post this sort of thing than here.

I never had a problem with iTunes. It does what it's supposed to do for me. It neatly sorts the files in my Music folder, and I make my playlists, and i can pick and choose my playlists i want to sync. I guess I am not as picky as other people.

I had a hard time accepting iTunes when I switched from Windows. I was used to Winamp and to organize my music myself into folders that made sense for me. It actually took a while until I really switched to iTunes. I realized it was a lot better to organize the music the iTunes way ... and now I cant live without it.

However we people are not alike, if that Sony player works best for you so why not? It is not like you are FORCED to use the iPod if you are taking part in this forum

How boring the world would be if everyone liked the same things.

I have been using itunes since the ipod photo came out. I can't imagine using anything else! You have accessibility to apps, recordings, readings, and so much more from one program.

vansmith said:

I can't take my whole library with me either. The question is whether you listen to all the music in your library on a regular enough basis to justify needing all of it with you at all times.

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Is it more commonplace for people to not listen to their whole library all the time? I have all 55GB or so of my music on my iPod so I can listen to anything any time. It spends most of the time on random in my library, so I can hear all my music. I also have a smart playlist for unplayed music that I often go through (in iTunes anyway) to make sure i hear it all. I have some songs that I listen to more than others, obviously, but is it normal for people to have a bunch of music they don't hear often?

TennsDog said:

Is it more commonplace for people to not listen to their whole library all the time? I have all 55GB or so of my music on my iPod so I can listen to anything any time. It spends most of the time on random in my library, so I can hear all my music. I also have a smart playlist for unplayed music that I often go through (in iTunes anyway) to make sure i hear it all. I have some songs that I listen to more than others, obviously, but is it normal for people to have a bunch of music they don't hear often?

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It depends on the size of your iPod and the size of your music library. I got an 8GB iTouch when 8GB was enough for me but my library has since grown to 14.5GB.

TennsDog said:

Is it more commonplace for people to not listen to their whole library all the time? I have all 55GB or so of my music on my iPod so I can listen to anything any time. It spends most of the time on random in my library, so I can hear all my music. I also have a smart playlist for unplayed music that I often go through (in iTunes anyway) to make sure i hear it all. I have some songs that I listen to more than others, obviously, but is it normal for people to have a bunch of music they don't hear often?

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To me, that's the whole appeal of MP3 players. Sure tiny iPods like the Shuffle are good for specialized tasks like workouts, but when I'm driving, on vacation or at work, I want my whole library with me. This way I can safely pack away all of my CDs and never have to worry about them getting damaged or stolen. I do exactly the same thing as you, I keep it on shuffle most of the time and in this way, it's like having my own personal radio station with only music that I like.

TennsDog said:

Is it more commonplace for people to not listen to their whole library all the time? I have all 55GB or so of my music on my iPod so I can listen to anything any time. It spends most of the time on random in my library, so I can hear all my music. I also have a smart playlist for unplayed music that I often go through (in iTunes anyway) to make sure i hear it all. I have some songs that I listen to more than others, obviously, but is it normal for people to have a bunch of music they don't hear often?

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I always had harddrive based iPods (from the 2nd gen. up to the video I owned every large model at some point thanks to work) and couldn't imagine ever using a device with less than 10 gigs.

Until I got my iPhone. Now I get by just fine with ~7.3GBs. On the go I still have my favorite tracks and to be honest I usually listen to Podcasts anyway.

So I guess to each his own and you use what you have

cwa107 said:

To me, that's the whole appeal of MP3 players. Sure tiny iPods like the Shuffle are good for specialized tasks like workouts, but when I'm driving, on vacation or at work, I want my whole library with me. This way I can safely pack away all of my CDs and never have to worry about them getting damaged or stolen. I do exactly the same thing as you, I keep it on shuffle most of the time and in this way, it's like having my own personal radio station with only music that I like.

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That's essentially my philosophy. I have my 4G iPod to hold the bulk of my collection and I have my iPhone for more select music for workouts and such. I need to get a bigger iPod since 20GB hasn't been enough in a long time.

My main beef with the iPod is its lack of support for free audio/video formats such as Vorbis, FLAC and Theora. I'm not crazy about iTunes either, but I can put up with it. Songbird is alright, but it doesn't run on PPC and being a pseudo-native XUL application that dares to double as a web browser, it's a bit of a resource hog. I would love it if there was something like Exaile for Mac OS X, something native and lightweight with a nice interface.