canon or nikon

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I couldn't disagree more.

You are going to be spending a lot of time holding your camera. If you aren't comftorble holding it and navigating it, you wont be happy and your pictures will suffer. In the grand scheme of things, most cameras really aren't all that different performance wise in the same price range. Their ergonomics, however, can make a big difference.

Personally, I'm a Canon guy and I shoot with a rebel xt. I like the camera, but it really is too small for my hands and I would have like a 40D, but I can't right now. I personally still wouldn't go to nikon just because I'm used to the canon interface and like it and I have invested in the system.

Go with what works best for you. Honestly, all the technical jargon in the world doesn't really make a difference for 95% or more of picture situations.

So a sports photographer choosing an XTI over a 1D MKIII because of comfort isn't going to have a harder time taking photos because of 3.5fps vs. 10fps and the ability to shoot with less noise at high ISO's because of the APS-H sensor in the 1D MKIII being larger than the APS-C sensor in the XTI?

Or some one that does a lot of low light photography is going to take better pictures with a $1100 50D that has mediocte high ISO performance in comparison to a used 5D with a full frame sensor, great high ISO performance and a price tag that's maybe $200 more.

That would cause your pictures to suffer much more than how comfortable you think the camera feels in your hand.

But then again, I am making money off of this and I did just buy a camera that cost almost 3x's more than my 30D because of the features and I never did get a chance to see how it felt in my hands until it was delivered to my house.
 
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Feel is...crap...considering the grand sceme of things.

You want a camera that is going to perform how you want it too. If a person is planning on shooting sports and they're looking at Canon, then there are certain cameras they'd want to rul out. They'd probably end up with a 40D. But if they were buying based on feel and though the XTI was better because of less weight and a smaller design, then they'd be buying for completely wrong reasons.

Buying based on feel should be low on a person's priority list and shouldn't factor into their decision until they've narrowed down their choices to cameras based on features.

True, a camera noob won't know what to look for in the way of features unless they research, but then again that's not our fault.

There was a guy on one of the forums I frequent that was asking how to use live view on the camera he just bought. He purchased a camera that doesn't have live view based on several people saying "Buy what feels best." That's a rare occurence but if he would have looked at the features instead of being a complete impulse buyer, then he would have gotten the camera he needed.

Live view is a nice bonus if you're lazy or don't have other proper equipment (I'd like live view, so don't mistake my comment for disagreement on whether or not it's a nifty feature) in order to get the kinds of shots you can get with it.. but it's not the be all end all feature for cameras, especially considering that there are not DSLR's which also have a full swivel lcd.

And feel is crap ? Wow, you couldn't be more wrong if you tried to be. And that is fact. A photographer holds his camera ALL DAY LONG, in varying climatic conditions, which will eventually present a challenge to someone with a camera that feels uncomfortable to begin with, whether it be that the grip is too small/big or the ergonomics of the layout is illogical to them.

If you were an Olympic marathon runner, would you wear a pair of Nike Jordan high tops because they had the best features in a sneaker ? No, you'd wear a running shoe that was comfortable, right ? Same thing. If you're buying a guitar, would you buy the one with the fretboard that caused you to over stretch your fingers because the neck was too wide, but was the coolest color you've ever seen, or would you get the one that you were able to put your index finger across all the way without effort, but wasn't as cool a color as the one that will eventually cause you carpal tunnel, amongst other things ?

Never should anyone new to photography listen to the advice you've given, as it is far too trivial for a list of priorities. Most of the above $1k cameras on the market will yield very similar results in terms of photo quality IF you know how to shoot your subjects. I can get fantastic results out of my measly Canon S3IS, because I know the camera well. I know what it can and can not do.

As for features.. Let's take the FPS feature. Is the person buying the camera a pro? Will he/she be using it for professional sporting events which will be published ? Sure, 6.5 fps vs 5 fps is a step up, but in the "grand scheme" of things, it's something I'd sacrifice in order to be able to hold the camera all day long without feeling like my hand is rotting off or sore etc..

Live view. Very useful and convenient but.. an absolute necessity ? Funny how this feature hasn't been needed by thousands of pro shooters over the years. So don't act as if you can't be a photographer without it.. .that's silly. I love live view on my S3, but if I told you that I could count how many times I've used it on both hands, I'd not be lying.

It's great for macro shot situations in positions I'd normally be hard pressed to reach without a good tripod.. but therein lies the key word.. good tripod. Good tripod + shutter release button= no live view needed. As a matter of fact, there are times I'd MUCH rather have my camera hanging upside down, in a tight spot than have me hunching over all twisted in some weird position in order to look at the LCD.

Furthermore, it's all about the glass. I don't care what camera you possess. If the glass is crap, there are no amount of features you can throw at the body, which will redeem the quality of your final product. So again, "features" take a back seat here.

In the end, AFTER build quality (because what good is a camera that will fail because of dust getting in the cracks, or will fail after a drop), and ergonomics, anybody would find it easy to compare and then find VERY similar "features" in any decent DSLR, give or take a thing or two that they could easily do without, given that they :

Know the subject matter they're shooting
understand how an (d)SLR works
use good quality glass
has technical (not just theoretical) and in the field knowledge

Doug
 
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And don't forget... shooting at a High FPS, requires a memory card that is fast enough to keep up with high FPS.
 
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Live view is a nice bonus if you're lazy or don't have other proper equipment (I'd like live view, so don't mistake my comment for disagreement on whether or not it's a nifty feature) in order to get the kinds of shots you can get with it.. but it's not the be all end all feature for cameras, especially considering that there are not DSLR's which also have a full swivel lcd.

And feel is crap ? Wow, you couldn't be more wrong if you tried to be. And that is fact. A photographer holds his camera ALL DAY LONG, in varying climatic conditions, which will eventually present a challenge to someone with a camera that feels uncomfortable to begin with, whether it be that the grip is too small/big or the ergonomics of the layout is illogical to them.

If you were an Olympic marathon runner, would you wear a pair of Nike Jordan high tops because they had the best features in a sneaker ? No, you'd wear a running shoe that was comfortable, right ? Same thing. If you're buying a guitar, would you buy the one with the fretboard that caused you to over stretch your fingers because the neck was too wide, but was the coolest color you've ever seen, or would you get the one that you were able to put your index finger across all the way without effort, but wasn't as cool a color as the one that will eventually cause you carpal tunnel, amongst other things ?

Never should anyone new to photography listen to the advice you've given, as it is far too trivial for a list of priorities. Most of the above $1k cameras on the market will yield very similar results in terms of photo quality IF you know how to shoot your subjects. I can get fantastic results out of my measly Canon S3IS, because I know the camera well. I know what it can and can not do.

As for features.. Let's take the FPS feature. Is the person buying the camera a pro? Will he/she be using it for professional sporting events which will be published ? Sure, 6.5 fps vs 5 fps is a step up, but in the "grand scheme" of things, it's something I'd sacrifice in order to be able to hold the camera all day long without feeling like my hand is rotting off or sore etc..

Live view. Very useful and convenient but.. an absolute necessity ? Funny how this feature hasn't been needed by thousands of pro shooters over the years. So don't act as if you can't be a photographer without it.. .that's silly. I love live view on my S3, but if I told you that I could count how many times I've used it on both hands, I'd not be lying.

It's great for macro shot situations in positions I'd normally be hard pressed to reach without a good tripod.. but therein lies the key word.. good tripod. Good tripod + shutter release button= no live view needed. As a matter of fact, there are times I'd MUCH rather have my camera hanging upside down, in a tight spot than have me hunching over all twisted in some weird position in order to look at the LCD.

Furthermore, it's all about the glass. I don't care what camera you possess. If the glass is crap, there are no amount of features you can throw at the body, which will redeem the quality of your final product. So again, "features" take a back seat here.

In the end, AFTER build quality (because what good is a camera that will fail because of dust getting in the cracks, or will fail after a drop), and ergonomics, anybody would find it easy to compare and then find VERY similar "features" in any decent DSLR, give or take a thing or two that they could easily do without, given that they :

Know the subject matter they're shooting
understand how an (d)SLR works
use good quality glass
has technical (not just theoretical) and in the field knowledge

Doug

But I woulnd't wear a pair of house slippers to run a marathon because they're more comfortable than any shoe out there.

I also wouldn't buy an acoustic guitar because they way that it felt when I was trying to play in a hardcore metal band.

The live view was an example, the only live view that I've seen photographers excited about is the live view in the new 5D because of the ability to silently take photos. Wedding photographers have been excited about that.

And glass is important, but there's other things out there that can trump good glass. I have pictures I've used the 18-55 kit lens with that have turned out amazing. I have pictures I've taken with the 24-70 f/2.8L that are some what mediocre.
 
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But I woulnd't wear a pair of house slippers to run a marathon because they're more comfortable than any shoe out there.

I also wouldn't buy an acoustic guitar because they way that it felt when I was trying to play in a hardcore metal band.

The live view was an example, the only live view that I've seen photographers excited about is the live view in the new 5D because of the ability to silently take photos. Wedding photographers have been excited about that.

And glass is important, but there's other things out there that can trump good glass. I have pictures I've used the 18-55 kit lens with that have turned out amazing. I have pictures I've taken with the 24-70 f/2.8L that are some what mediocre.

Those comparisons are not akin to the ones I've made in my examples, and you know it. As for the live view for wedding photographers, that.. I wouldn't know about, so I can't speak to its testimony, and trust that this specific type of photographer would know best. What do you mean by "silently" btw ?

As for the glass thing, you also know that there are some kit lenses which are quite good, and at the same time, you also know that lighting can either enhance or degrade the ability of any glass. There are also some discrepancies with the the type of shooting (landscape vs portrait vs macro etc) one does relative to the type of glass they own, but this can be tricky. One might have to experiment with several different lenses in order to get the synergy they want between the body and glass and their shooting style.

But that's another story eh ?

Doug
 
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wow i didnt make this thread to start a disagreement...lol

All i wanted was some info on the XSi (i liked the live view option on it) and the D60 (b/c it is nikon what my dad has used since the beginning of time). i cant afford a 40D or a D90 or i would have asked about those.. i plan on spending over 3k on getting my MBP in Feb. i need design software and such as well. i cant convince myself to let me spend another 2k on a camera and lenses. this will be my first SLR camera and i need it for digital photography class.

i like the D60 it is $599 and the XSi is just a lil bit more in Price i was basicly wondering if it was a lil bit better and had more features than the Nikon b/c the price was higher.

can anyone help me with these questions.. i have looked it up but i dont know all the jargon as well as most of you.. i know ISO and fps and stuff but that is about it..
 
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Well, if you ONLY want to base your purchase upon features in that price range, and specifically those two cameras, I'd probably go for the XSi. The D60 is using the CCD sensor, while the Canon is using the (supposedly) better CMOS one.

The Canon does have the live view, as well as a slightly higher fps rate. It also has time a time lapse feature to boot. Look HERE That's a good place to look for reviews as well as side by side feature set comparisons.

Oh, and I don't feel as if we're arguing. We're just throwing down some opinions (yes, I did mention one thing to be fact though, and still stand by that).

Here's a great idea. If you're able, rent both cameras for a week and you decide which is better for your needs.

doug

Edit: Sorry, I linked you to the 1000D rather than the 450 D which is the XSi:

Digital Cameras Side-by-Side, 2 cameras: Digital Photography Review
 
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Those comparisons are not akin to the ones I've made in my examples, and you know it. As for the live view for wedding photographers, that.. I wouldn't know about, so I can't speak to its testimony, and trust that this specific type of photographer would know best. What do you mean by "silently" btw ?

As for the glass thing, you also know that there are some kit lenses which are quite good, and at the same time, you also know that lighting can either enhance or degrade the ability of any glass. There are also some discrepancies with the the type of shooting (landscape vs portrait vs macro etc) one does relative to the type of glass they own, but this can be tricky. One might have to experiment with several different lenses in order to get the synergy they want between the body and glass and their shooting style.

But that's another story eh ?

Doug

Live view is enabled when the mirror flips up, so the sensor is exposed, just like in a P&S. The Canon 5D MKII allows you to take photos in live view without having the shutter and mirror flip back down and back up, which lets you take a photo without the typical shutter noise.
 
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So a sports photographer choosing an XTI over a 1D MKIII because of comfort isn't going to have a harder time taking photos because of 3.5fps vs. 10fps and the ability to shoot with less noise at high ISO's because of the APS-H sensor in the 1D MKIII being larger than the APS-C sensor in the XTI?

Or some one that does a lot of low light photography is going to take better pictures with a $1100 50D that has mediocte high ISO performance in comparison to a used 5D with a full frame sensor, great high ISO performance and a price tag that's maybe $200 more.

That would cause your pictures to suffer much more than how comfortable you think the camera feels in your hand.

But then again, I am making money off of this and I did just buy a camera that cost almost 3x's more than my 30D because of the features and I never did get a chance to see how it felt in my hands until it was delivered to my house.

But a sports photographer would never make that decision. The rebel is NOT more comfortable than the 1D mkIII. Its construction is much more profesional and durable and has a bigger, imho, more comfortable grip.

Don't get me wrong- you buy the camera that fits your needs, but within the same price range there is really very little difference in features between cameras, so when you are comparing, say, canon and nikon in the same market it really comes down to personal preference. You need to go out and try the cameras. Hold them. See which menu system and lens system you prefer. Getting bogged down in brand versus brand or even price range versus price range (duh, more expensive cameras will be better, and bigger and heavier) is really pointless.

My recomendation to the parent is just to go to a good camera store and play with both cameras. See which one feels best to you. Remeber- this is a decision that will probably affect your buying decisions in the future, too as once you build a lens system, it is very expensive to switch to another one.
 
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Better watch Canon, in the smaller S2 IS they knowingly installed image sensors that were build by Sony that failed. Because they weren't Canon built, they weren't responsible for the thousands of them that failed, and refused to repair any of them except at the owner's expense. They failed just after the 1 year warrany expired and the cost to repair the Sony sensor was almost $200.00
 
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There is no better of the two, go to the shop, try the camera's out for yourself and choose from that. If you ask people on the internet they will just tell you to go with the make of camera they have themselves and most owners tend to use canon.
 
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Canon.

Why? cos I have one :D
 
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Nikon! Because that's what I got...
 
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Both are good brands with pluses and minuses. Though I myself shoot a Nikon D3 and D200 with an array of nice glass. :Cool:
 
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This is subjective. There's nothing about a Nikon that is better than Canon and vice versa. Two companies competing back and forth. While one may lead the other at certain times, it goes back and forth. Go with what you like. I personally shoot Canon. Not that I dislike Nikon, I'm just comfortable with Canon SLRs. Personal preference. I also had an incident that sold me for life to Canon. I had a house fire and my Digital Rebel happened to be in my room. After the entire house was damaged with smoke and water damage, I found my camera. Having nothing else left, I picked it up, cleaned it off and let it sit to dry. Not having any high expectations, I turned it on and to my amazement, it turned on. I continued to shoot with that camera for several more months until I sold it to a friend. Who later kept it for several months and sold it to another friend.
 
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Nikon! Because that's what I got...

fine Dougit i'll just get both....lol

but seriously i am leaning toward the XSi it has CMOS sensor... i have read it is a better one...

thx for all the help guys
 
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This is subjective. There's nothing about a Nikon that is better than Canon and vice versa. Two companies competing back and forth. While one may lead the other at certain times, it goes back and forth. Go with what you like. I personally shoot Canon. Not that I dislike Nikon, I'm just comfortable with Canon SLRs. Personal preference. I also had an incident that sold me for life to Canon. I had a house fire and my Digital Rebel happened to be in my room. After the entire house was damaged with smoke and water damage, I found my camera. Having nothing else left, I picked it up, cleaned it off and let it sit to dry. Not having any high expectations, I turned it on and to my amazement, it turned on. I continued to shoot with that camera for several more months until I sold it to a friend. Who later kept it for several months and sold it
to another friend.

I have to agree. You should just try and get your hands on the two you've been looking into. See which one you like best.
 
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well i personally like the Canon.. i'll have to defy my father and get me one..lol
 

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