Anyone have guns?

MacNasty said:

I've always carried my .45's cocked and locked in either a paddle holster or one of Mitch Rosen's IWB holsters and belts. I have a Scott MacDougal pocket holster for my Colt Mustang .380 but I carry that on "light days". My instructors beat into me that the .380 was the next best thing to being unarmed so the .45 is my usual preference.

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I would bet no one would want to be on the receiving end of a .380 or any caliber since any bullet can be lethal.
I have seen a few ladies at the range with a rather tight group using a .380.

osxx said:

I would bet no one would want to be on the receiving end of a .380 or any caliber since any bullet can be lethal.
I have seen a few ladies at the range with a rather tight group using a .380.

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And my better half would be among them. It is still an underpowered 9mm. Again not just my opinion but those of a lot of experts. I'm assuming you have looked over the ballistics? A fellow student at Massad Ayoob's Lethal Force Institute switched from a .380 Sigg to a 9mm after it took several center punches to put down a guy attempting to rape her. His famous last words: "you {expletive}, you shot me!" as he continued to walk toward her. He lived long enough to walk by her, out her door to the driveway where he sat down and died. My personal preference would be that an attacker drop right when and where I tap 'em but that's in a perfect world...

MacNasty said:

And my better half would be among them. It is still an underpowered 9mm. Again not just my opinion but those of a lot of experts. I'm assuming you have looked over the ballistics? A fellow student at Massad Ayoob's Lethal Force Institute switched from a .380 Sigg to a 9mm after it took several center punches to put down a guy attempting to rape her. His famous last words: "you {expletive}, you shot me!" as he continued to walk toward her. He lived long enough to walk by her, out her door to the driveway where he sat down and died. My personal preference would be that an attacker drop right when and where I tap 'em but that's in a perfect world...

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Thing is, these examples can be said about any round size. I've read about a person taking a 45acp to the chest and walking away in NYC. FMJ vs JHP is the real defining comparison if you really want to cause damage with less shots. I bought a Ruger LCP 380 after an awkward moment where carrying anything larger would make me stand out in a crowd I did not want to stand out in. Been testing it out for a bit now, and if you can't make that bullet useful, you shouldn't be shooting. As ammo goes, each has it's cons in relation to amount of material you are seeking to go through before lethal penetration. The 380 round, as most rounds, are designed to penetrate ~12 inches under normal clothing. With so many 380 variations, you have choices between penetration, spread, and both. If you are worried about penetration, you have the option of Remington Gold Saber. Generally, those 380's that inflict the most internal damage are those with the lowest penetrating power(9"), but if you're after only penetration(which is not really what you want in defense) 14" of penetration is also found in some 9mm, .40, and 45acp rounds. Test also show that .380 vs 9mm performance equals out with smaller handguns. Pick what you prefer.
I use these three, in this order as pictured: .380, 9mm, and 45acp.

Use .380 Federal Champion 95gr, 9mm Hornady Critical Defense 115gr FTX, and .45ACP Hornady Custom 185gr XTP for my defense loads. Each has its own purpose. No bad guy will have a good time at my house.

Not sure if I posted this before:

Awesome pocket handgun.

iggibar said:

Thing is, these examples can be said about any round size. I've read about a person taking a 45acp to the chest and walking away in NYC. FMJ vs JHP is the real defining comparison if you really want to cause damage with less shots. I bought a Ruger LCP 380 after an awkward moment where carrying anything larger would make me stand out in a crowd I did not want to stand out in. Been testing it out for a bit now, and if you can't make that bullet useful, you shouldn't be shooting. As ammo goes, each has it's cons in relation to amount of material you are seeking to go through before lethal penetration. The 380 round, as most rounds, are designed to penetrate ~12 inches under normal clothing. With so many 380 variations, you have choices between penetration, spread, and both. If you are worried about penetration, you have the option of Remington Gold Saber. Generally, those 380's that inflict the most internal damage are those with the lowest penetrating power(9"), but if you're after only penetration(which is not really what you want in defense) 14" of penetration is also found in some 9mm, .40, and 45acp rounds. Test also show that .380 vs 9mm performance equals out with smaller handguns. Pick what you prefer.
I use these three, in this order as pictured: .380, 9mm, and 45acp.

Use .380 Federal Champion 95gr, 9mm Hornady Critical Defense 115gr FTX, and .45ACP Hornady Custom 185gr XTP for my defense loads. Each has its own purpose. No bad guy will have a good time at my house.

Not sure if I posted this before:

Awesome pocket handgun.

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You are quite correct that the ammo is the big factor. But may I suggest that a tennis ball and a brick traveling at the same speed will have different results on impact? The biggest problem (which has been solved) with the .45 was getting the slower moving .45 JHP's to open up after penetration. That being said if you take a .95 grain .380 and compare the terminal ballistics to a .45 JHP that is two or two and a half times that weight the advantage goes to the .45. Also ammo doesn't always do what we think it will do. In 9mm I won't carry the heavy weight ammo due to their tendency to over penetrate. If memory serves those are the 155 grain. I have some to load for practice but would never use the commercial stuff on the street for the reason stated. I do like your choice in .45 ammo. XTP ammo has a great rep and I've found the 185 grain ammo serves me well. My last trip to the slaughterhouse resulted in 100% bullet retention and catastrophic damage. 1 shot stop.

MacNasty said:

You are quite correct that the ammo is the big factor. But may I suggest that a tennis ball and a brick traveling at the same speed will have different results on impact? The biggest problem (which has been solved) with the .45 was getting the slower moving .45 JHP's to open up after penetration. That being said if you take a .95 grain .380 and compare the terminal ballistics to a .45 JHP that is two or two and a half times that weight the advantage goes to the .45. Also ammo doesn't always do what we think it will do. In 9mm I won't carry the heavy weight ammo due to their tendency to over penetrate. If memory serves those are the 155 grain. I have some to load for practice but would never use the commercial stuff on the street for the reason stated. I do like your choice in .45 ammo. XTP ammo has a great rep and I've found the 185 grain ammo serves me well. My last trip to the slaughterhouse resulted in 100% bullet retention and catastrophic damage. 1 shot stop.

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Yeah, I know...I'm not saying that the .380 is more powerful than the .45acp. I'm just arguing for the .380 not being the weak choice people make them out to be. I thoroughly enjoy shooting the .45 XTP ammo. It disintegrates wood and blows huge chunks out of it. I forgot to mention, I go back and forth between the Federal Hydra-shok .45 and the XTP depending on which I can get cheaper. The Hydra-shok has unbelievable expansion, and consistency in expansion pattern(like a flower with razor-blade pellets).

Caliber wars... always fun. Would you rather be hit by a sedan doing 90mph, or a dump truck doing 50mph? Mossad does just fine in realistic SD engagement distances with subsonic .22LR fired from old Beretta 70's. They are just tools, and they all excel at different things.

Anyhow, I like how the 10mm below actually triggers a small nuclear explosion after the temporary wound cavity!

XJ-linux said:

Anyhow, I like how the 10mm below actually triggers a small nuclear explosion after the temporary wound cavity!

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hahaha

XJ-linux said:

Para has been junk since the late 1990's IMHO. Consider yourself lucky to have gotten out of it without taking a hit. Much as I hate to admit it, many of the Asian-based manufacturers build a better 1911 for the price than many North American manufacturers.

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Yeah...I heard bad things about them, but I liked it when I first handled it and shot it. It's an absolute nightmare looking at the internal workings of that Expert...disgusting! I tried to finish off the inside, but there's only so much you can do to it before you lose it.

iggibar said:

Yeah, I know...I'm not saying that the .380 is more powerful than the .45acp. I'm just arguing for the .380 not being the weak choice people make them out to be. I thoroughly enjoy shooting the .45 XTP ammo. It disintegrates wood and blows huge chunks out of it. I forgot to mention, I go back and forth between the Federal Hydra-shok .45 and the XTP depending on which I can get cheaper. The Hydra-shok has unbelievable expansion, and consistency in expansion pattern(like a flower with razor-blade pellets).

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OK, Iggy. Have you ever tried the "Safety Slugs" (silver or blue) a la "Red Dragon"? I've carried them and sometimes Cor-Bon ammo. Results are pretty good.

Trivia question for you: Where did MI-6 (as in 007) carry their PPK's?

MacNasty said:

OK, Iggy. Have you ever tried the "Safety Slugs" (silver or blue) a la "Red Dragon"? I've carried them and sometimes Cor-Bon ammo. Results are pretty good.

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I've heard of the Red Dragon, but never tried any of them.

Trivia question for you: Where did MI-6 (as in 007) carry their PPK's?

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No where. It was magic. It popped out whenever he needs to use it. They did use Galco shoulder holsters though. Now I feel like watching 007.

iggibar said:

I've heard of the Red Dragon, but never tried any of them.


No where. It was magic. It popped out whenever he needs to use it. They did use Galco shoulder holsters though. Now I feel like watching 007.

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Actually the MI-6 guys were issued an "inside the fly" holster. Not the top of my list on where to carry a PPK but, heh, not my problem. "Red Dragon" was the first of the books (and movie) mentioning Hannibal Lector. The FBI agent trailing the serial killer in that book loaded Glaser Safety slugs in his firearm. The obvious downside to Glaser's is that you get 6 rounds for the price of a normal box of defensive factory ammo. It IS good ammo, just pricey.

Now: any "hideout" guns? Anything with engraving too pretty to carry?

MacNasty said:

Actually the MI-6 guys were issued an "inside the fly" holster. Not the top of my list on where to carry a PPK but, heh, not my problem. "Red Dragon" was the first of the books (and movie) mentioning Hannibal Lector. The FBI agent trailing the serial killer in that book loaded Glaser Safety slugs in his firearm. The obvious downside to Glaser's is that you get 6 rounds for the price of a normal box of defensive factory ammo. It IS good ammo, just pricey.

Now: any "hideout" guns? Anything with engraving too pretty to carry?

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LOL. For some reason, I thought you were talking about incendiary shotgun slugs...started imagining without realizing I was actually thinking of Dragon's Breath slugs. Never knew they made 45ACP with#12 shot. That's pretty cool! I've got some researching to do.

I definitely do not want a handgun inside my fly.

iggibar said:

LOL. For some reason, I thought you were talking about incendiary shotgun slugs...started imagining without realizing I was actually thinking of Dragon's Breath slugs. Never knew they made 45ACP with#12 shot. That's pretty cool! I've got some researching to do.

I definitely do not want a handgun inside my fly.

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Nor do I. I use to carry a .38 S&W Bodyguard. I lived close to a well known local engraver and asked him to fully engrave it and fit it with elephant ivory grips. My greatest mistake. The gun is too pretty to carry now. It would be like carrying the Mona Lisa around with me. I'd be afraid of scratching it. Imagine that.

The Glaser's achieve a "rathole" wound effect similar to a shotgun (like the "break" in a game of billiards with pellets bouncing off each other and other objects). I was a big fan of the "Black Talon" ammo way back when. The anti-gunners brought out one of their tame MD's who swore (not under oath mind you) that the peeled back petals of the bullet would wound the surgeons trying to remove them. That was a total crock as all that is done with instruments. Been there - seen that. Anyway Talons were banned here.

I actually was still carrying Talons in my Smith 3913 until I retired it. Now I'm toting 124gr +P Gold Dots, which are about the nastiest thing I care to shoot out of my P938. Didn't have enough of the Talons to prove in the Sig and then carry them, so had to move on to the vastly superior Gold Dots.

On the rare occasions I see Talons for sale, they are going to pretty ridiculous amounts. Keep pondering selling them off, but they are kinda cool to keep around for old times sake.

AngryRedTicTac said:

I actually was still carrying Talons in my Smith 3913 until I retired it. Now I'm toting 124gr +P Gold Dots, which are about the nastiest thing I care to shoot out of my P938. Didn't have enough of the Talons to prove in the Sig and then carry them, so had to move on to the vastly superior Gold Dots.

On the rare occasions I see Talons for sale, they are going to pretty ridiculous amounts. Keep pondering selling them off, but they are kinda cool to keep around for old times sake.

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It was great ammo. Like I said I still have unopened boxes in various calibers. I just don't want to be some anti-gun nut's sex fantasy by using it on the street. Unfortunate all around as one shot stops were more likely with Talon ammo raising survivability believe it or not.

Today felt like a good day to "exercise my 2nd amendment rights" at the local gun show...

Beretta PX-40 Storm. !0 day waiting period starts today.

10 days! Good Lord. Anyhow, nice pistola.

baggss said:

Today felt like a good day to "exercise my 2nd amendment rights" at the local gun show...

Beretta PX-40 Storm. !0 day waiting period starts today.

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Now, save up and get its big brother: The CX4 Storm. Love that carbine!

I have been very impressed with my friends PX4 9mm, it's a very soft shooting, extremely accurate pistol. His is a compact, and it is one of the few guns that I shoot as well as my old Smith. It and the Sig SP2022 are on my list of things to acquire, both are crazy good pistols for the money. I've held the carbine before, but never fired one. The concept of shared mags intrigues me, tremendous flexibility seems like a great thing!

10 days sounds painful, at least you can't burn up any precious ammunition in that time.

XJ-linux said:

10 days! Good Lord. Anyhow, nice pistola.

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AngryRedTicTac said:

10 days sounds painful, at least you can't burn up any precious ammunition in that time.

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Nah, I've lived in Cali long enough to know the drill. I had to get my handgun safety license as well, 30 questions of obviousness yet 2 people failed it while I was at the booth taking my test, That's scary. I waited longer for my iMac...

Besides, if the current administration in DC has it's way that 10 day waiting period will soon come to a state near you! Cali claims it's for a "background" check, but the system is pretty automatic. It's actually a "cooling off" period so you don't go out right away and kill someone. They couldn't pass that so they named it something else, lobbied like **** and got the public to vote for it, by a small margin. I figure it just gives me more time to plot and scheme

baggss said:

Nah, I've lived in Cali long enough to know the drill. I had to get my handgun safety license as well, 30 questions of obviousness yet 2 people failed it while I was at the booth taking my test, That's scary. I waited longer for my iMac...

Besides, if the current administration in DC has it's way that 10 day waiting period will soon come to a state near you! Cali claims it's for a "background" check, but the system is pretty automatic. It's actually a "cooling off" period so you don't go out right away and kill someone. They couldn't pass that so they named it something else, lobbied like **** and got the public to vote for it, by a small margin. I figure it just gives me more time to plot and scheme

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Nice pistol Bags! I grew up in Michigan where they finally admitted that their "Safety Checks" required after you purchase a firearm are simply gun registration. For years the requirement was that the local cops fired your firearm to ensure it's "safety". Didn't matter if you were a collector and wanted it unfired. I now live in a place that recognizes that registration IS the first step toward confiscation and no such laws will be permitted.

I am totally unfamiliar with your new pistol. How many rounds in the mag?