Studies of MAC vs. PC?...

Vochraye · Jan 12, 2005

I’m thinking of getting a Mac Mini. I am a PC enthusiast, but have always wanted to experience the Mac. Also, as a UI specialist I feel like I am really missing out on one of the examples of a truly great UI, and that I’m ‘poisoning’ myself by only being familiar with the PC interface.

The only real roadblock is convincing the powers that be (wife) that the investment is worth it. Now, everybody *knows* the OSX UI is better than Windows – but I want some concrete proof. Does anyone know of a usability study that stacks Windows against OSX (or any previous version?)

Thanks!
-: Vochraye

trpnmonkey41 · Jan 12, 2005

I have never seen any official studies but you can't get any more concrete information then this (and its stuff your wife will understand)
1. There has never been a virus for OS X
2. There is no adware and spyware that can install itself in OS X becase a) Companies don't focus on macs and b) It is too hard to have something install itself in UNIX
3. The built in e-mail and internet programs have spam and pop-up blockers that work better than any of the windows counterparts

Desolate One · Jan 12, 2005

Know anyone that has an iBook or Powerbook? Let the wife play around with one, she'll definitely at least think it's "cute". Otherwise on a shopping excursion suggest you guys pop into the Apple store so she can see for herself. They really sell themselves.

Vochraye · Jan 12, 2005

Cool! Thanks for the tips!
If anyone happens to find a study somewhere, drop me a line

falltime · Jan 12, 2005

trpnmonkey41 said:
I have never seen any official studies but you can't get any more concrete information then this (and its stuff your wife will understand)
1. There has never been a virus for OS X
2. There is no adware and spyware that can install itself in OS X becase a) Companies don't focus on macs and b) It is too hard to have something install itself in UNIX
3. The built in e-mail and internet programs have spam and pop-up blockers that work better than any of the windows counterparts

Why is that any reason to go Mac. Macs real strength lies in the fact that is proprietary. Certain apps (like FCP and DVD Studio Pro) yield higher performance benefits than its similarly priced PC app counterparts and are much better supported and known to be more reliable.

Viruses? Don't download them.
Spyware? Don't download them. They don't just "self-install" themselves. Lack of spyware on Macs has nothing to do with the fact that its a Unix based OS. Active X (not featured in OSX), a built-in COM interface is often used by Spyware leechers to trick inept PC users into installing their software. Unless you deliberately change IE settings to automatically download signed/unsigned Active-X controls you will always be prompted. So you would of course have to voluntarily click yes to have Spyware installed on your system.

Recommending the switch to Mac because it is "fool-proof" sort of seems like a shot in the foot if your a Machead. I mean, is that really a good reason?

And to answer the original posters question - I am both a very serious certified Mac enthusiast, as well as a very serious PC hobbyist. I own Apples top of the line Dual 2.5GHz G5 as well as a glorious PC. The G5 is great for video editing and DVD authoring, but for everything else, there really is no comparison - my pc kills the G5. OS X is definitely pretty, but everything is much more seamless on my PC, as far as performance is concerned.. and games on mac are a joke. My pc triples the FPS of my dual 2.5 in WoW with similar video cards (x800 xt pe vs 6800 Ultra), and the 2.5 is at lowest res no aa/af, and my pc is at 16x12 full aa/af.

Keep in mind this is a fair comparison of a dual 2.5 and a custom built PC I built myself. Comparing an apple to a dell is a joke. No one should ever base their opinions of pcs off machines that were built by Dell or Alienware, etc.

Amen-Moses · Jan 12, 2005

I have 3 Macs and 4 PCs.

From top to bottom:

Twin G5 Power Mac OSX 10.3, twin SATA drives 17" Apple display.
XP2200 maxed out on graphics & RAM 19" CRT (my Half Life 2 machine).
XP2000 similarly apportioned with 17" CRT. Both with XP Pro.
17" G4 1Ghz iMac dome, maxed out RAM SuperDrive. OSX 10.2
eMac G4 1Ghz OSX 10.3, combi drive.
2 mini-ITX systems 600Mhz & 1Ghz, one running XP Home and one running Linux.

I use them all for different things but even with all those options available I'm sitting here in front of the iMac by choice. (the G5 beast is upstairs and the beer fridge is downstairs, not a hard choice but still a choice

)

I'm sat right next to my most powerful PC and yet I'm still using the iMac, why? Because it's just better for what I'm doing right now, if in ten minutes time I feel like a HL-2 slug fest then I'll rotate my chair 90 degrees and switch on use the PC, if I feel like another battle with Myst IV or a bit of fun building a new Roller coaster (quick plug for No-Limits here) I'll pop upstairs but for browsing the net or checking my email I choose the iMac.

(I only say this because from the specs the Mac Mini should be far superior to my iMac so it should easily satisfy your needs)

Amen-Moses

IronMac · Jan 13, 2005

Vochraye said:
I’m thinking of getting a Mac Mini. I am a PC enthusiast, but have always wanted to experience the Mac.

Does anyone know of a usability study that stacks Windows against OSX (or any previous version?)

Thanks!
-: Vochraye

Try this one im not sure if they are still up tho. http://www.xvsxp.com/

MacMini27 · Jan 13, 2005

falltime said:
Why is that any reason to go Mac. Macs real strength lies in the fact that is proprietary. Certain apps (like FCP and DVD Studio Pro) yield higher performance benefits than its similarly priced PC app counterparts and are much better supported and known to be more reliable.

Viruses? Don't download them.
Spyware? Don't download them. They don't just "self-install" themselves. Lack of spyware on Macs has nothing to do with the fact that its a Unix based OS. Active X (not featured in OSX), a built-in COM interface is often used by Spyware leechers to trick inept PC users into installing their software. Unless you deliberately change IE settings to automatically download signed/unsigned Active-X controls you will always be prompted. So you would of course have to voluntarily click yes to have Spyware installed on your system.

Recommending the switch to Mac because it is "fool-proof" sort of seems like a shot in the foot if your a Machead. I mean, is that really a good reason?

And to answer the original posters question - I am both a very serious certified Mac enthusiast, as well as a very serious PC hobbyist. I own Apples top of the line Dual 2.5GHz G5 as well as a glorious PC. The G5 is great for video editing and DVD authoring, but for everything else, there really is no comparison - my pc kills the G5. OS X is definitely pretty, but everything is much more seamless on my PC, as far as performance is concerned.. and games on mac are a joke. My pc triples the FPS of my dual 2.5 in WoW with similar video cards (x800 xt pe vs 6800 Ultra), and the 2.5 is at lowest res no aa/af, and my pc is at 16x12 full aa/af.

Keep in mind this is a fair comparison of a dual 2.5 and a custom built PC I built myself. Comparing an apple to a dell is a joke. No one should ever base their opinions of pcs off machines that were built by Dell or Alienware, etc.

I dont know about you, but I dont download spyware, and it gets on my PC, I dont download viruses either, I build custom PC's as well.
But it always seems that spywere gets on my machine somtimes, viruses get on machines, and yes viruses do download themselves, not sure were you get your ideas from, mabey"Computers for Dummies", I saw it at a Barnes and Noble the Other day, One of the main reasons to go Mac is cause of the no virus, spyware thing, and that OSX is solid as a rock.
Oh ya the cool designs are pretty neat.

Vochraye · Jan 13, 2005

Saw that but...

IronMac said:
Try this one im not sure if they are still up tho. http://www.xvsxp.com/

They charge for admission now.

MacMini27 · Jan 13, 2005

I just thought of somthing, since Microsoft only gets most of its money from software thats why they charge more for the os than Apple.... IT makes sense to anyways....

falltime · Jan 13, 2005

I dont know about you, but I dont download spyware, and it gets on my PC, I dont download viruses either, I build custom PC's as well.
But it always seems that spywere gets on my machine somtimes, viruses get on machines, and yes viruses do download themselves, not sure were you get your ideas from, mabey"Computers for Dummies", I saw it at a Barnes and Noble the Other day, One of the main reasons to go Mac is cause of the no virus, spyware thing, and that OSX is solid as a rock.
Oh ya the cool designs are pretty neat

No reason to get nasty. I wasn't insulting anyone.

Viruses do not "download themselves." LOL. I "get my ideas" from working in the industry for over 30 years. Jeese. Maybe you should pick up that book yourself.

It must be a miracle then - I've never had spyware on my machine.. Post a thread in ocforums and ask how many people have spyware on their machines, it should stir up a pretty decent laugh.

I highly doubt you build your own PCs, it's not exactly hard, but I have a tough time believing anyone that claims "viruses download themselves" has the slightest clue.

Vochraye · Jan 14, 2005

falltime said:
Viruses do not "download themselves."

Well, in his defense, I think what he is referring to are some of the (many) vulnerabilities in IE that allow malicious code from a webpage to execute any instructions the attacker wants. For example, some of the vulnerabilities that we present right before SP2 (mostly buffer overflow) would allow the attacker to deliver a payload onto the victim's computer without any other action than just opening the webpage. No email or installation need be involved.

Also, an unpatched security hole (like the one CodeRed exploited) could allow a system to be infected from other computers on the network, or even from infected systems outside the network (if security was lax enough – i.e., no firewall, or one without updated firmware).

In these instances I think it would be fair to say the virus appeared to "have installed itself", because that is certainly what it looks like to the user.

This is one of the reasons that having a Mac would be nice. Not many people out there are attempting to undermine the security of them!

-: Vochraye

PowerBookG4 · Jan 14, 2005

ok, I am a mac user now, but i switched over because i was getting spyware on my computer all the time with out downloading any thing, Spybot just kept telling me, you have spy ware on your computer so i would erase it all and try to figure out how it got there, so i would tighten up my security, firwal, spybot, and antivirus, and it would come back. I built my own computer, it was a dual xeon 4gig ram, top of the line motherboard, TOL Graphics, TOL Sound, DVD burner, and so on, if you could buy it, i put it in there. I switched to macs because of their operating system, and their power in the video editing. Not once have i ended up with spyware on my system, or a virus. Now yes, viruses don't go randomly and download onto computers, but servers can get infected and when you load their files it can save onto your computer, if it has a command in it to download spyware, it can self install because it is not a unix based operating system. Now sure, was that a very advanced case, yes, but can it happen, yes. So I think your both right, but also there are holes in what both of you are saying.

MACyMouse · Jan 15, 2005

I use both PC and Mac. I prefer my PC for gaming and web surfing. Especially since half the stuff I look at or want to download are specifically FOR the PC.
I hate that when i click on something and it says "sorry , we do not support Mac OS". It's frustrating.
The only reason I really use my Mac is because it's a 12" iBook and I can place it on my lap, chat, and watch the tube at the same time. I can't with my PC since it's in another room.

PC's are also a heck of alot easier to troubleshoot.
Don't get me wrong, I was born and raised on a mac, I'm talking a powerpc 6300 was my first mac operating system 7. LOL!! And I loved it til I got a PC and loved that even more. But now that I know both and what their pros and cons are of each, I'll keep both and do what I need to do on whatever machine.

IChing · Jan 16, 2005

Here is a nice shoot out between Apple Mac mini (no display)
Dell Dimension 2400 (no display) at:
http://www.systemshootouts.org/shootouts/desktop/2005/0111_dt0600.html

I know its slanted our way but an't they all slanted one way or another?

mynameis · Jan 16, 2005

Vochraye said:
Now, everybody *knows* the OSX UI is better than Windows – but I want some concrete proof.

Thats an opinion, trying to find proof of it is like trying to find a scientific study that says Coke tastes better than Pepsi. If you like OS X, use it.

falltime · Jan 17, 2005

IChing said:
Here is a nice shoot out between Apple Mac mini (no display)
Dell Dimension 2400 (no display) at:
http://www.systemshootouts.org/shootouts/desktop/2005/0111_dt0600.html

I know its slanted our way but an't they all slanted one way or another?

Not only is it slanted, but once again, people find it necessary to compare macs to dells. Why? Dells are garbage. Alienwares are garbage.

I said it in another thread and I'll say it again. Comparing a Mac to a Dell is like comparing a nice slab of ribs at Zekes BBQ to the McRibb and McDonalds. Dell/HP/Alienware are like the fast food chains of personal computing.

mynameis · Jan 17, 2005

falltime said:
Not only is it slanted, but once again, people find it necessary to compare macs to dells. Why?

For most users, if the one didn't exist they could use the other to fullfil the same need.

Amen-Moses · Jan 17, 2005

IChing said:
Here is a nice shoot out between Apple Mac mini (no display)
Dell Dimension 2400 (no display) at:
http://www.systemshootouts.org/shootouts/desktop/2005/0111_dt0600.html

I know its slanted our way but an't they all slanted one way or another?

Slanted our way?

What they should have done is try to build a PC with the same physical characteristics, i.e size/power/noise.

Trust me when I say it cannot be done, it's not just a case of the money you physically cannot buy a PC that small.

You can make one as quiet, I have recently built a 7x10x2 PC (almost as small) which is silent but it is a paltry 600Mhz job with Pro-Savage graphics, probably around an eighth of the performance of the Mini in real terms and almost exactly the same cost at about 400 quid. Bearing in mind that that is purely the component price, when I add in the build cost and software there is no way you can match the Mini at present.

I'm a bit concerned about the 85W power usage (my PC is around 35W & 45W for the 1Ghz version) but I'm hoping that is a maximum rating and not the norm.

Amen-Moses

IChing · Jan 17, 2005

I agree the size of it, power consumption, graphic's card, noise and other factors make this a killer computer that can be placed easily in cars, kiosks, trade shows booths and other commercial applications we haven't even thought of; will make this a killer pc. I read that car detailers are already taking orders to put this in the dash. They is no comparison to a dell I agree but it was a neat shootout.

Studies of MAC vs. PC?...

Vochraye

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trpnmonkey41

Desolate One

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Vochraye

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falltime

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Amen-Moses

IronMac

MacMini27

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Vochraye

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MacMini27

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falltime

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Vochraye

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PowerBookG4

MACyMouse

IChing

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mynameis

falltime

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IChing

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