First African-American nominee of a major party...

Aptmunich · Jun 6, 2008

JohnTheMacGeek said:
No, it's not corporations in his pocket ... it's radical left wing special interest groups that occupy the space in Obama's pockets!

Just out of legitimate curiosity:

Who would you consider to be a left wing special interest group?

kittyGIRL · Jun 6, 2008

I want to share this poll video that I saw in pollcalsh, that they compare the two video’s that is related to each other...One I saw there is a video between Hillary and Richard Nixon, talking about a war in Iraq, and I saw the comments there that who is more credible between the two then. Try to check out and see for your self…
http://pollclash.com

baggss · Jun 6, 2008

JohnTheMacGeek said:
As much as I hate to admit it, I can't really disagree with you. however, I will not vote for Obama unless he legitimately moves more toward the center.

I just received the following from the DNC. I found it somewhat interesting and, dare I say, a smart move!

Keep in mind that while that does apply to the presidential candidate, it does NOT apply to congressional candidates running for office or re-election. If they wanted to make a bold move, they would have stopped it across the board. BTW, those Congressional campaigns can legally pass money to the presidential campaign, so there is a loophole that effectively nullifies this statement, in other words it is pure political posturing. Dean and Obama are simply being disingenuous.

This is also the same party that is having trouble figuring out how to pay for it's own convention.

Aptmunich · Jun 6, 2008

baggss said:
Keep in mind that while that does apply to the presidential candidate, it does NOT apply to congressional candidates running for office or re-election. If they wanted to make a bold move, they would have stopped it across the board. BTW, those Congressional campaigns can legally pass money to the presidential campaign, so there is a loophole that effectively nullifies this statement, in other words it is pure political posturing. Dean and Obama are simply being disingenuous.

This is also the same party that is having trouble figuring out how to pay for it's own convention.

Well Obama doesn't seem to be doing so badly so far - and that's before he could take advantage of any "loopholes"...

Whatever the case I think it sends the right signal and might even prompt some other politicians to follow suit.

schweb · Jun 6, 2008

baggss said:
Dean and Obama are simply being disingenuous.

Sort of like McCain claiming he's a "maverick"?

baggss · Jun 6, 2008

Obama was doing ok before he was the presumptive nominee, the DNC was not. If anyone is going to benefit it is going to be the DNC, not Obama. While he was running he could take money from special interest groups and I have seen nothing to show that he did not take money from them.

schweb said:
Sort of like McCain claiming he's a "maverick"?

Perhaps. Show me another senator that has bucked his own party as much as McCain has though. His record show a long independent streak that has irked the Republican party, and the President, for some time. I've always been one of those "Actions speak louder than words" types and while McCain may not be as Maverick that he has been in the past, at least he has a record of having done something other than giving nice speeches.

James · Jun 6, 2008

CL33Zero said:
Or it means that people support him because hes a minority, and the not the best candidate. Is that a step forward? Well in a way, I guess, but I see alot of people who support him, despite knowing very little about his policies.

And that is the crying shame of it for there is no reason at all not to know what he really stands for. He has a record in the senate that is easily seen and he has written 3 or 4 books where he plainly tells what he believes in. He hasn't made it a big secret other than the mainstream press tends to completely ignore it in their rush to get him elected.

schweb · Jun 6, 2008

baggss said:
Perhaps. Show me another senator that has bucked his own party as much as McCain has though. His record show a long independent streak that has irked the Republican party, and the President, for some time. I've always been one of those "Actions speak louder than words" types and while McCain may not be as Maverick that he has been in the past, at least he has a record of having done something other than giving nice speeches.

There are far more maverick Republican senators than John McCain. Any of the R's from the northeast for example.

I'm not arguing Obama has any substance beyond nice speeches, but neither did Dubya and somehow we got re-elected twice. So its a bit disingenuous for Republicans to attack Obama on the "experience" factor when we've had Bush for 8 years.

I don't necessarily think Obama has much substance, are at least not much he's bothered to share yet if it's there. I supported Hillary.

I have not yet made up my mind for the fall, but I do find it hilarious the hypocrisy both sides play to.

sanity1082 · Jun 6, 2008

something i have said since hilary was in the running was that i was for hilary. not because of her politics but i wanted to see what bill could do in the white house if he had more free time. it would have at least been entertaining

baggss · Jun 6, 2008

schweb said:
There are far more maverick Republican senators than John McCain. Any of the R's from the northeast for example.

I'm not arguing Obama has any substance beyond nice speeches, but neither did Dubya and somehow we got re-elected twice. So its a bit disingenuous for Republicans to attack Obama on the "experience" factor when we've had Bush for 8 years.

I don't necessarily think Obama has much substance, are at least not much he's bothered to share yet if it's there. I supported Hillary.

I have not yet made up my mind for the fall, but I do find it hilarious the hypocrisy both sides play to.

Keep in mind that Bush was at least a 2 term state governor (Texas) before being elected, as were Clinton and Reagan. That experience alone far outweighs whatever Senatorial experience Mr Obama might have. I think Bush Senior had far less executive experience that W did at the time of his election (he was not even a Senator before becoming Reagan's VP).

sanity1082 said:
something i have said since hilary was in the running was that i was for hilary. not because of her politics but i wanted to see what bill could do in the white house if he had more free time. it would have at least been entertaining

That WOULD have been interesting.....

cheesybanana · Jun 6, 2008

baggss said:
Keep in mind that Bush was at least a 2 term state governor (Texas) before being elected, as were Clinton and Reagan. That experience alone far outweighs whatever Senatorial experience Mr Obama might have. I think Bush Senior had far less executive experience that W did at the time of his election (he was not even a Senator before becoming Reagan's VP).

So, Bush had a good amount of executive experience, and...

I am just not convinced that experience is the end all be all of a presidential candidate. And I believe that what Obama has to offer far outweighs this flaw...

baggss · Jun 6, 2008

Obama would be the most politically inexperienced president since Eisenhower, no offense to Eisenhower fans for the comparison.

schweb · Jun 6, 2008

cheesybanana said:
So, Bush had a good amount of executive experience, and...

I am just not convinced that experience is the end all be all of a presidential candidate. And I believe that what Obama has to offer far outweighs this flaw...

With the most powerful job in the world, I don't necessarily buy the "experience doesn't matter" mantra. We're not talking about city council, local planning commission, or little league baseball coach. We're talking President of the United States.

For Obama to lock up my vote, I need more from him. I need more specifics. I need to see his team. I need to see who he chooses for VP.

Those choices will say alot about what kind of President he'll be.

CL33Zero · Jun 6, 2008

cheesybanana said:
So, Bush had a good amount of executive experience, and...

I am just not convinced that experience is the end all be all of a presidential candidate. And I believe that what Obama has to offer far outweighs this flaw...

Exactly what does he have to offer?

What does Barack, specifically, propose to change in this country and how is he going to change it?

What will be the results of the changes he enacts?

How does his message give you hope?

In the simplest sense, Barack’s plans are simply tax and spend, with heavier regulations on virtually every industry. The countless pictures of Barack supporters with moon-eyed adoration are indicative of people mindlessly enthralled with a personality.

James said:
And that is the crying shame of it for there is no reason at all not to know what he really stands for. He has a record in the senate that is easily seen and he has written 3 or 4 books where he plainly tells what he believes in. He hasn't made it a big secret other than the mainstream press tends to completely ignore it in their rush to get him elected.

I am pretty sure you missed my point.

schweb · Jun 6, 2008

CL33Zero said:
In the simplest sense, Barack’s plans are simply tax and spend, with heavier regulations on virtually every industry. The countless pictures of Barack supporters with moon-eyed adoration are indicative of people mindlessly enthralled with a personality.

Where has 8 years of deregulation and tax cuts gotten us?

CL33Zero · Jun 6, 2008

schweb said:
Where has 8 years of deregulation and tax cuts gotten us?

I understand that, we SHOULD NOT have low taxes during a time of war. I mean, no argument there, who exactly is paying for it anyway? Nobody so far

cheesybanana · Jun 6, 2008

schweb said:
With the most powerful job in the world, I don't necessarily buy the "experience doesn't matter" mantra. We're not talking about city council, local planning commission, or little league baseball coach. We're talking President of the United States.

I never said experience was moot, I am just saying that he has a lot of qualities that can make up for this.

What does he have? He has leadership (probably the most important quality of the president). He has the ability to respond to pressure in a positive and collected way. He has the ability to inspire an entire generation of people.

We all know change hardly ever comes with politics. And I really do not believe that he will 'change' our political machinery. He CAN, however, lead people to make changes themselves though leadership and, yes, oration.

I agree with most of his policy, but even that is fairly irrelevant. His policies will most likely be compromised out of existence anyway. Same with any president.

baggss · Jun 6, 2008

CL33Zero said:
How does his message give you hope?.

Pretty words sound nice....nice sounds make you feel good....feeling good gives you hope...

cheesybanana said:
What does he have? He has leadership (probably the most important quality of the president). He has the ability to respond to pressure in a positive and collected way. He has the ability to inspire an entire generation of people

I would dispute those points. Nothing I have seen from him gives me the impression that he has those skilled in any practical or realistic sense. He has inspired some people, but his audience is now significantly wider and includes massive numbers of members of his own party who were not swayed by his pretty speeches during the primary season, significantly more than actually backed him. He is unlikely to sway the bulk of them for any other reason than he is the Democratic candidate and he may in fact lose many of them because of the divide in the party.

He's an eloquent speaker and compared to "W" anyone is. Aside from that I have seen nothing of substance from him.

schweb · Jun 6, 2008

baggss said:
Pretty words sound nice....nice sounds make you feel good....feeling good gives you hope...

And sometimes hope and inspiration make big things happen.

You can have all the experience in the world and all the best ideas and still fail because you can't inspire people.

You can also be inspiring without any real plans and the people will do great things.

D3v1L80Y · Jun 6, 2008

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRMfDbm7nFo

Replace the word, "BLISS" with "Change" and you have just about any politician/candidate out there.