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OSX 10.9 Mavericks . . . and ranting about the new Mac Pro because Van said so!!!

vansmith

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You really should pay more attention to thread titles . . . ;D



So let it be written; so let it be done! :p
This new state of affairs pleases me. This should become a trend. ;)

Nobody knows what the future holds and what technology will be available in 10 years time but given the power of this machine I'd wager it would still be pretty useful.
I bet people said that same thing about MPs released in 2003 and you couldn't make one of those cheap enough for me to want one right now as my main machine.

I understand why people might not be overjoyed at the lack of upgradability but to me Apple is all about the symbiotic relationship between the hardware and the software. That of course comes from designing and building both. Adding new hardware into the mix would ruin this symbiotic relationship to some extent. To me if you want to install new hardware in the machines then buy a PC. Lets face it; it would be a lot cheaper.
This make it sound as if one has to stick to the hardware that comes with a machine which, in many cases, can be bested by purchasing better parts. Let's face it - Apple still ships Fujitsu 5400RPM drives in their machines. In no way does upgrading that drive ruin the "symbiotic relationship" between parts of the machine. In fact, it probably makes it better.
 
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I think this incarnation of the Mac Pro has probably lost a bit of the tinker with it factor. It won't be as easy to do as some models have been. That bothers me but realistically in all the years I've owned G5 and Mac Pros cases I've only installed one card, extra memory, and an internal hard drives. This form factor might be a bigger issue for pros,

@Dennis Thanks for that link it got me up to speed on the info that I missed. I wonder how effective the cooling will be? This idea seems strangely reminiscent of the Cube

Lost a bit?

The cooling will be more effective than the current Pro, but then the current Pro is no better than a consumer-grade / light-business Windows machine in terms of the effectiveness of cooling - the 'actually pro' workstations from HP and even Dell moves more air in a more noise-efficient manner, especially on the HP.

So I guess it means we can expect cooling to be somewhat on a par with e.g. the midrange Dell Precisions with less noise (though likely probably not that different noisewise to a liquid-cooled HP - who, unlike Apple, can build that without it leaking).

However, this is negated by the need for external boxen for anything else - take a Pegasus R6 for example, that will already pretty much obliterate the running noise of an HP workstation by itself.

Also I know that the prospect of being able to replace the GPU has been something of a joke for a while on the Pro, and I guess by presumably making the GPU's proprietary or MXM fit, they've pretty much admitted that you're never likely to swap the GPU within the 'Apple-designed' lifetime of the unit.

No doubt Apple-only users will normalise to the experience, but as some of the above posters have said, it means the Pro is only "Pro" for people who think they're the be-all of "pros" who solely edit video in air-conditioned suites.
 

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Not lost at all. Just because a company says something should cool well does not mean that is will or is a good idea long term. Even if that company is Apple. Let us remember the liquid cooled G5 tower for example. I almost bought one but settled for one of the air cooled rigs. Long before that computer died I started seing problems from folks who owned liquid cooled rigs where the cooling had failed.
 
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I bet people said that same thing about MPs released in 2003 and you couldn't make one of those cheap enough for me to want one right now as my main machine.

I imagine they may well have done. This is only my opinion, and it may very well turn out to be wrong, however it is based on the following assumptions/observations. The machine is ample powerful enough for 4k video editing. 1080p TVs are not yet in every household and 4k TV sets are pretty new to the market. Current video broadcasts are not even 1080p. It would take a huge overhaul for broadcasters to output 1080p and I am unsure whether it is possible to broadcast 4k over the air. Of course 4K would be able to be streamed by those that have fantastic internet but as another user alluded to not everyone has reliable internet let alone great internet so this would be a rather niche group. The point here that I am trying to make is that in 10 years time 4k might just be in the position that 1080p TV sets are in now, and as such the Mac Pro will retain some usefulness in those circumstances.

This make it sound as if one has to stick to the hardware that comes with a machine which, in many cases, can be bested by purchasing better parts. Let's face it - Apple still ships Fujitsu 5400RPM drives in their machines. In no way does upgrading that drive ruin the "symbiotic relationship" between parts of the machine. In fact, it probably makes it better.

Indeed you are correct, but Apple had the wisdom to allow you to change the hard drive in those machines. In the Mac Pro we are talking about top end flash memory that would not need to be replaced to make it better. In any event a new graphics card with different drivers is going to have a much greater effect on what I describe as the symbiotic relationship than a new hard drive. Again just my two cents but I pay Apple to build me a **** fine machine. If I wanted to upgrade or put certain parts into a machine then I would build my own PC as it would be significantly cheaper and it would have every part inside that I wanted. Downside to that I suppose would be no OSX, or perhaps more correctly put, no legal OSX.
 

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I imagine they may well have done. This is only my opinion, and it may very well turn out to be wrong, however it is based on the following assumptions/observations. The machine is ample powerful enough for 4k video editing. 1080p TVs are not yet in every household and 4k TV sets are pretty new to the market. Current video broadcasts are not even 1080p. It would take a huge overhaul for broadcasters to output 1080p and I am unsure whether it is possible to broadcast 4k over the air. Of course 4K would be able to be streamed by those that have fantastic internet but as another user alluded to not everyone has reliable internet let alone great internet so this would be a rather niche group. The point here that I am trying to make is that in 10 years time 4k might just be in the position that 1080p TV sets are in now, and as such the Mac Pro will retain some usefulness in those circumstances.
Perhaps we have no idea what will be happening with 4K. Beyond that, you've listed only one feature that is perhaps semi-future proof. On top of that, what is a user supposed to do is the flash memory dies on them?

Indeed you are correct, but Apple had the wisdom to allow you to change the hard drive in those machines. In the Mac Pro we are talking about top end flash memory that would not need to be replaced to make it better.
Ah but you're making the assumption that what's available in the machine will be the best for its lifecycle. Given that this machine is going to be very expensive and thus, likely used for a long time, it's hard to justify selling a machine that can't be upgraded when (as is inevitable) better hardware comes out.

Again just my two cents but I pay Apple to build me a **** fine machine. If I wanted to upgrade or put certain parts into a machine then I would build my own PC as it would be significantly cheaper and it would have every part inside that I wanted. Downside to that I suppose would be no OSX, or perhaps more correctly put, no legal OSX.
I fail to see how user replaceable parts ruins this. If you like what Apple has done, don't touch the hardware. That way, you get your "symbiosis" and others get to upgrade and replace what will eventually become old and potentially outdated hardware.
 
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Perhaps not, but I figure Apple do.

The machine to me looks phenomenal with the power to run 3 4k displays and 7 teraflops of computing power. Nobody knows what the future holds and what technology will be available in 10 years time but given the power of this machine I'd wager it would still be pretty useful. I understand why people might not be overjoyed at the lack of upgradability but to me Apple is all about the symbiotic relationship between the hardware and the software. That of course comes from designing and building both. Adding new hardware into the mix would ruin this symbiotic relationship to some extent. To me if you want to install new hardware in the machines then buy a PC. Lets face it; it would be a lot cheaper.

Let me quote a user on another forum....this is a big part of the market they are shooting at...

I've been holding off on buying a PC to see WHEN Apple's tower would come out... now everything has changed. For most of my motion work the Nvidia cards are far more productive. Both Premier and Resolve make better use of CUDA than Open CL. I also need FAST storage. My SAS RAID will do about 800Mb/s at best, are there any Thunderbolt RAIDs that beat that? Even match it? Also, Thunderbolt is as fast as, what, 4x PCIe? That makes external PCI housings really unattractive.

My current workhorse is a 2010 12 core, 48 GB RAM, SSD Boot Drive, 12GB internal storage and 16GB external SAS storage. PCI expansion chassis, 2x Nvidia Quadro 4000 & GTX 570, RedRocket, Decklink for HD-SDI out, RAID card, eSATA card... I just can't see the cute little black garbage can replacing that...

I'm looking at the HP Z820 RED Edition. Very roomy on the inside, built-in RED Mag readers, 7 PCI slots. I think I could even ditch my expansion chassis.

I think the new MacPro will be great for many users, I just don't believe it's going to do it for me. Drag.


I think Apple is gonna see quite a few sales lost to PC boxes. Not that the users will really want to go windows but needs will force them.
 

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Both Premier and Resolve make better use of CUDA than Open CL.
I'm not a graphics guy by any means so I'm truly surprised at how much this appears to be a problem for so many people. I hadn't realized that a considerable amount of software had been tailored for CUDA and how much easier it was to write CUDA applications. One can hope that Apple offers an Nvidia variant down the line at some point.
 

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I'm not a graphics guy by any means so I'm truly surprised at how much this appears to be a problem for so many people. I hadn't realized that a considerable amount of software had been tailored for CUDA and how much easier it was to write CUDA applications. One can hope that Apple offers an Nvidia variant down the line at some point.
Same here. Although I would like to see the developers do a better job handling CUDA and Open CL (probably a major undertaking) I'm not holding my breath on that score. If the state of multiprocessor support is any indication it could be a while.

For me the bigger hurdle to overcome mentally is the lack of user upgradability for hard drives, graphics, etc. I'm hours away from the nearest Apple store when the hard drive died in my Mac Pro a while back a 15 minute call to apple convinced the guy that the drive was dead and they cross shipped a replacement. I could have replaced the graphics card but by the time that started to fail it wasn't worth sinking the cash into it.

The new setup should have fewer of those kinds of failures but lets face it they are going to happen. When it does that means a trip to the shop for me.
 

vansmith

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Same here. Although I would like to see the developers do a better job handling CUDA and Open CL (probably a major undertaking) I'm not holding my breath on that score.
From the sounds of it, writing something for OpenCL and CUDA are two very different projects. However, I found something interesting - Nvidia supports OpenCL on their GPUs. It would almost seems smarter to write with OpenCL but, from what I've read, it's the relative ease of CUDA compared to OpenCL that seems to win over developers.
 
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Any new major OS X version will be distributed through the Mac App Store (on your Dock).



Generally, new major OS X versions are about $30, though that cost has varied a bit in the past. Yes, I think it's worth it.



No.
Thank you for answering my questions!
So, when the BTS promo starts soon, and we get the $100 gift card (assuming that's what it will be again), we would be able to use that gift card towards upgrading to OSX Mavericks, correct?
 

pigoo3

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Thank you for answering my questions!
So, when the BTS promo starts soon, and we get the $100 gift card (assuming that's what it will be again)...

Like you mentioned...assuming there is a BTS promo...we would also need to wait & see what the details are.

- Nick
 
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Like you mentioned...assuming there is a BTS promo...we would also need to wait & see what the details are.

- Nick

Rumor has it that it's starting this week, quite possibly even tomorrow (Tuesday).
But then again, it's not the first time we've heard rumors about this year's BTS promo already. ;)
 
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Like you mentioned...assuming there is a BTS promo...we would also need to wait & see what the details are.

- Nick

Rumor has it that it's starting this week, quite possibly even tomorrow (Tuesday).
But then again, it's not the first time we've heard rumors about this year's BTS promo already. ;)

What is this BTS Promo you talk of ??

Something else us Aussies miss out again I bet :-/
 
C

chas_m

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TM: BTS stands for Back To School. I think Apple runs this promo in many countries, but the timing varies.
 
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TM: BTS stands for Back To School. I think Apple runs this promo in many countries, but the timing varies.


Thanks mate. We do have a Education Program that Apple do run here, but its not so much Back to School. Its all year round for the discounts. Happy my new partner is a Teacher ;) Got Windows 7 & 8 for $15 a piece through Aust Eduction Program ;)
 
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What is this BTS Promo you talk of ??

Something else us Aussies miss out again I bet :-/

TM: BTS stands for Back To School. I think Apple runs this promo in many countries, but the timing varies.

Thanks mate. We do have a Education Program that Apple do run here, but its not so much Back to School. Its all year round for the discounts. Happy my new partner is a Teacher ;) Got Windows 7 & 8 for $15 a piece through Aust Eduction Program ;)

BTS=Back To School Promotion
It's not quite the same as the Education Program.
You get a free $100 Gift Card (or $50 for iOS devices), on top of your educational discount.
I thought I read the one in Australia was back in January, so it would be over now.
 
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A "ten year computer" with a 3 year (at best) warranty? Will this hardware still be officially supported by Apple in 10 years? Will the 2023 version of OS X, XI, XII or iOSwhatever be allowed (by Apple) to be installed on this system? If so then it's a great hedge against inflation. Seems a bit of a stretch to me, but what do I know.
 
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A "ten year computer" with a 3 year (at best) warranty? Will this hardware still be officially supported by Apple in 10 years? Will the 2023 version of OS X, XI, XII or iOSwhatever be allowed (by Apple) to be installed on this system? If so then it's a great hedge against inflation. Seems a bit of a stretch to me, but what do I know.

I still regularly use my 10 year old MacBook Pro and it's running 10.6.
 

chscag

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I still regularly use my 10 year old MacBook Pro and it's running 10.6.

Your math is a bit off. The MacBook Pro first appeared in 2006, (actually Feb 2006) that would make it at the most 7 years and 5 months old.
 

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