• Welcome to the Off-Topic/Schweb's Lounge

    In addition to the Mac-Forums Community Guidelines, there are a few things you should pay attention to while in The Lounge.

    Lounge Rules
    • If your post belongs in a different forum, please post it there.
    • While this area is for off-topic conversations, that doesn't mean that every conversation will be permitted. The moderators will, at their sole discretion, close or delete any threads which do not serve a beneficial purpose to the community.

    Understand that while The Lounge is here as a place to relax and discuss random topics, that doesn't mean we will allow any topic. Topics which are inflammatory, hurtful, or otherwise clash with our Mac-Forums Community Guidelines will be removed.

Republican V. Democrat

Joined
Jan 8, 2005
Messages
6,188
Reaction score
254
Points
83
Location
New Jersey
Your Mac's Specs
Mac Pro 8x3.0ghz 12gb ram 8800GT , MBP 2.16 2GB Ram 17 inch.
Ok, So I wanted to create a PRODUCTIVE thread here. There are now 61 days to the election for president of the US.

I know which candidate I like based on the issues they have both brought up so far (I am leaning towards McCain) however I have not totally made up my mind yet, as there are still 61 days. I want to remain as close to neutral as possible until at least the first debate.

Either way I have a question. I don't actually know what the difference between the two parties actually are. What are some things the different parties do with out mentioning in the elections because It is already understood that they are going to do it because they are part of a certain party.

It would be helpful if you explained this as if you were talking to a college student who happens to also be special ed. :)
 
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Messages
154
Reaction score
1
Points
18
Location
Virginia Beach
Your Mac's Specs
Macbook Pro 2.2ghz 2G 15.5" 10.5.2; Iphone 3G
http://www.ontheissues.org/default.htm

check this out... It will help you to look at these particular candidates for this election. I would love to respond with my opinions, as a conservative, but I just think it's hard, over the internet, to have a civil discourse about politics.

Good luck.
 
Joined
Dec 3, 2006
Messages
9,383
Reaction score
417
Points
83
Location
Irvine, CA
Your Mac's Specs
Black Macbook C2D 2GHz 3GB RAM 250GB HD iPhone 4 iPad 3G
If you make less than $250,000, then you will be getting a tax cut under Obama. Just something you should know in case you though the Democrat was going to raise your taxes ;)
 
OP
PowerBookG4
Joined
Jan 8, 2005
Messages
6,188
Reaction score
254
Points
83
Location
New Jersey
Your Mac's Specs
Mac Pro 8x3.0ghz 12gb ram 8800GT , MBP 2.16 2GB Ram 17 inch.
If you make less than $250,000, then you will be getting a tax cut under Obama. Just something you should know in case you though the Democrat was going to raise your taxes ;)

But taxes go up if you make more than 250k? I ask because my dad does, and I hope to be shortly after I get on my own. I have my own company now and its doing well and when I am out of college and I have time to fully concentrate on growing it, it is likely I will fall in that bracket, and it is also likely that this president we elect will still be president.
 
Joined
Apr 4, 2008
Messages
151
Reaction score
1
Points
18
Your Mac's Specs
13.3" MBP: 2.26 C2D, 4GB, 160GB
Democrats (being liberals) prefer to expand governmental power. I paint with a broad brush, but this typically means that government spending is raised, resulting in more taxes.

I know i'll probably get kicked for this comment, but so be it...
 
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
6,879
Reaction score
191
Points
63
Location
Tucson, AZ
Your Mac's Specs
Way... way too many specs to list.
Actually, I'd say that historically this would be a fair argument. That being said, the current administration has expanded the government bureaucracy and power more than any I remember in my lifetime. Naturally, this has raised expenditures and while taxes are not high NOW because of it, we WILL have to pay it sooner or later, just like a credit card bill.
 
Joined
Dec 3, 2006
Messages
9,383
Reaction score
417
Points
83
Location
Irvine, CA
Your Mac's Specs
Black Macbook C2D 2GHz 3GB RAM 250GB HD iPhone 4 iPad 3G
But taxes go up if you make more than 250k? I ask because my dad does, and I hope to be shortly after I get on my own. I have my own company now and its doing well and when I am out of college and I have time to fully concentrate on growing it, it is likely I will fall in that bracket, and it is also likely that this president we elect will still be president.

Here are the tax plans for each candidate in an easy to read visual diagram:

Obama and McCain Tax Proposals

It looks like unless your dad hits the $600,000 mark, he won't be seeing a tax increase.

Democrats (being liberals) prefer to expand governmental power. I paint with a broad brush, but this typically means that government spending is raised, resulting in more taxes.

I know i'll probably get kicked for this comment, but so be it...

While you are somewhat correct about the government expansion, I much rather prefer the Democratic approach of tax and spend than the Republican approach of borrow and spend. We end up paying MORE under Republicans because of massive interest rates incurred on that borrowed money. I should also note that Clinton, a Democrat, significantly cut the size of the federal government, which resulted in a surplus for the first time in decades, something the self-proclaimed fiscally responsible Republican party has never been able to do.

Obama plans on lowering taxes for the middle class and raising them on the upper class. So unless you're making $600,000 or more, you're actually better off under Obama than you are under McCain in terms of taxes.
 
Joined
Jul 18, 2006
Messages
2,180
Reaction score
92
Points
48
Location
Florida
One point that I notice is not being made by the MSM. You cannot tax a business without hurting the employees and those who purchase their product. Reason? Companies do not pay taxes - people do. Taxes are passed onto the consumer. As a business owner if my taxes are increased I either have to 1) pass that increase along in the price of my product or 2) Let some employees go to cut my expenses. Besides if you look at the IRS website you will see that 86% of all taxes are paid by the top 25% of all income earners. The top 50% pay 97% of all taxes. Never in the history of the country has the economy been helped by raising taxes. Our three greatest economic booms (JFK, Reagan and Bush) followed tax cuts.
 
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
1,602
Reaction score
71
Points
48
Location
Detroit, Michigan
Your Mac's Specs
MacBook Pro M1 Pro - 16 GB RAM - 512 GB SSD - macOS Monterey
I'm a Brian Moore supporter, myself.

Not that he's on the Michigan ballot, but still, as a member of the Socialist Party USA, he's mah man.
 
Joined
Mar 20, 2006
Messages
573
Reaction score
46
Points
28
Location
Petaluma, CA
Your Mac's Specs
20" iMac 2.0 GHz Intel Core Duo, 12" iBook G4 1.07 GHz
Republicans increase deficit spending and increase the national debt. Democrats decrease the deficit and have more budget surpluses.

budget_deficit_or_surplus.gif
 
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
6,879
Reaction score
191
Points
63
Location
Tucson, AZ
Your Mac's Specs
Way... way too many specs to list.
If you extend that back a few years you'll see that Johnson spent similarly.
 
Joined
Dec 3, 2006
Messages
9,383
Reaction score
417
Points
83
Location
Irvine, CA
Your Mac's Specs
Black Macbook C2D 2GHz 3GB RAM 250GB HD iPhone 4 iPad 3G
If you extend that back a few years you'll see that Johnson spent similarly.

LBJ also escalated the Vietnam War, and we all know that deficits explode during long prolonged wars.
 
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
6,879
Reaction score
191
Points
63
Location
Tucson, AZ
Your Mac's Specs
Way... way too many specs to list.
LBJ also escalated the Vietnam War, and we all know that deficits explode during long prolonged wars.
Indeed. You'll find that spending patterns are also intrinsically linked to world events ;) not solely to party affiliation, which was my point.

edit: Either way, I really don't see a significant difference between the major parties. I mean even Ben Stein has commented that America has become an Oligarchy and largely.. I have to agree with him
 
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
8,967
Reaction score
287
Points
83
Location
London
Your Mac's Specs
Mac Mini Core i7 2012 | White 2009 MacBook 2 Ghz | 733 Mhz G4 Quicksilver
what a good debate so far

Its just a pity that not everybody debates the issues, but most people make decisions on a vague gut instinct, or just out of habit (repetition compulsion)

Indeed, most of our daily decisions are not even made by our concious self, they are pre arranged by our brains before consciousness has a chance to kick in

So always question your prejudices
 
OP
PowerBookG4
Joined
Jan 8, 2005
Messages
6,188
Reaction score
254
Points
83
Location
New Jersey
Your Mac's Specs
Mac Pro 8x3.0ghz 12gb ram 8800GT , MBP 2.16 2GB Ram 17 inch.
Here are the tax plans for each candidate in an easy to read visual diagram:

Obama and McCain Tax Proposals


So after reading the link... excuse me if i'm just being ignorant, but I don't see how its fair when somebody has worked really hard, likely going to school for many years and because of it has climbed the latter and made a lot of money somehow is now responsible to pay almost a million dollars more in taxes while the people who didn't get there get money back. Isn't that like punishing the people for making it?

I think a good tax plan would be don't give any money back, stop spending all the money, and don't charge people who are in the military taxes (or do they already do that).

Or why not increase tax on EVERYBODY wait for the deficits to become surplus to cut taxes down to a level where you can maintain the surplus as a surplus.
 
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
Messages
1,237
Reaction score
27
Points
48
Your Mac's Specs
2015 Retina 4K iMac. Monterey. 8GB RAM. Crucial 500GB external SSD
democrats raise taxes. their answer to fixing budget problems.

I pay way too much now thank you. I vote republican.

Obama made a comment about giving oil money profits back to the people. That's called socialism, and I pass on that too.
 
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
1,956
Reaction score
47
Points
48
Location
Tampa , FL
Your Mac's Specs
15" MBP Unibody 2.53Ghz 4GB RAM 250GB HD,VERIZON iPhone 4,SIG P238 ,iPad,6th Gen iPod NANO
democrats raise taxes. their answer to fixing budget problems.

I pay way too much now thank you. I vote republican.

Obama made a comment about giving oil money profits back to the people. That's called socialism, and I pass on that too.


Agreed 100% Obama is a boarder line socialist.... Look at what he has voted for and what issues he stands for. Mass taxation and give away programs that takes from those that produce and gives to those who do nothing,Gun control laws that will put everyone under the control of government and criminals
Lets not forget to mention that Obama has the most Leftist voting record of any member of the Senate. unfortunately a good portion of the people who are going to vote for him are uneducated and clueless when it comes the politics. Obama literally starting to be portrayed as a messiah.

He wants the government to insure $300 Billion in loans for home owners
who can't pay their mortgages. People who chose to buy homes they could not afford and acted irresponsibly with their money.
 
Joined
Dec 3, 2006
Messages
9,383
Reaction score
417
Points
83
Location
Irvine, CA
Your Mac's Specs
Black Macbook C2D 2GHz 3GB RAM 250GB HD iPhone 4 iPad 3G
So after reading the link... excuse me if i'm just being ignorant, but I don't see how its fair when somebody has worked really hard, likely going to school for many years and because of it has climbed the latter and made a lot of money somehow is now responsible to pay almost a million dollars more in taxes while the people who didn't get there get money back. Isn't that like punishing the people for making it?

I think a good tax plan would be don't give any money back, stop spending all the money, and don't charge people who are in the military taxes (or do they already do that).

Or why not increase tax on EVERYBODY wait for the deficits to become surplus to cut taxes down to a level where you can maintain the surplus as a surplus.

A good tax plan would complement a good budget. The only way we can responsibly cut taxes is to cut the size of the government. The problem is that neither party wants to shrink the government. Now while the Democrats try to raise taxes and pay for the large government, the Republicans irresponsibly cut taxes and pay for the government by borrowing money. So then when the Democrats come back into office they have to raise taxes to pay for all the borrowed money to get the budget back into balance. Then the Republicans go and mess it all up again. It's quite amusing actually.
 
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
8,967
Reaction score
287
Points
83
Location
London
Your Mac's Specs
Mac Mini Core i7 2012 | White 2009 MacBook 2 Ghz | 733 Mhz G4 Quicksilver
wow, this debate is veering towards the right

I wouldn't call Obama a socialist by any stretch of the imagination

Does he believe in nationalising major US industries?
Is he going to create a national free health care system?
Is he going to create a nationwide government owned public transport system?
Is he going to make higher education free to all

That is what I would expect a socialist to do, Obama is certainly a liberal, but no socialist

What POwerbookG4 said about balancing budgets was sensible IMO. As a more wealthy citizen, I do accept the fact that I pay more tax than some, and a lot goes on the feckless poor (not all poor people are feckless - just some), but the alternative is an increasingly violent society
 
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
6,879
Reaction score
191
Points
63
Location
Tucson, AZ
Your Mac's Specs
Way... way too many specs to list.
wow, this debate is veering towards the right

I wouldn't call Obama a socialist by any stretch of the imagination

Does he believe in nationalising major US industries?
Is he going to create a national free health care system?
Is he going to create a nationwide government owned public transport system?
Is he going to make higher education free to all

That is what I would expect a socialist to do, Obama is certainly a liberal, but no socialist

What POwerbookG4 said about balancing budgets was sensible IMO. As a more wealthy citizen, I do accept the fact that I pay more tax than some, and a lot goes on the feckless poor (not all poor people are feckless - just some), but the alternative is an increasingly violent society
Americans in general have a rather different definition of 'socialism'. I agree though, without public ownership it's hard to really call it socialist. I also agree that it's veering towards the right.
 

Shop Amazon


Shop for your Apple, Mac, iPhone and other computer products on Amazon.
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon and affiliated sites.
Top