Triple boot 2 tiger installs and a linux install on a iBook G3

I inherited an iBook G3 (700mhz, 640 megs, 80 gig HD)

It came with Tiger pre-installed, which I have messed with. Being primarily a WinDoze person, I wanted to get more familiar with the Mac - without spending the big bux on a fancy new machine

My thoughts:
1. I wanted to keep the existing Tiger (10.4.11) install as configured.
2. I wanted to do a fresh install of Tiger, and upgrade it to 10.4.11, just to get familiar with the process and see what a "default" clean install looked like. Also I could use this as a "sandbox" without totally borking the original install.
3. I also wanted to try a PPC install of Xbuntu - again for the experience, and to see how Linux performs on the G3.

And. . . . I wanted to do all three at the same time.

What I did:
1. Backed up the original install to a .dmg file using SuperDuper.
2. Removed the original 30 gig HD and replaced it with an 80 gig drive, keeping the original drive as a "if all else fails" contingency.
3. Wiped the new drive clean.
4. Partitioned with 5 partitons
(a) #1 - 16 meg for yaboot
(b) #2 - 18 gig for original Tiger install
(c) #3 - 18 gig for new Tiger install
(c) #4 - 30-some odd gigs (what was left over after all the other partitions were sized.) for Xbuntu
(d) #5 - 2 gig for Linux swap space.
All partitioning was done using Disk Utility from the Tiger boot CD.
Partitions 1, 2, and 3, were formatted HPFS+
Partitions 4 and 5 were formatted "Unix" so that I could find them later when I installed Xbuntu Ultimately they were formatted as ext4 and swap.

5. Used Disk Utility to restore the saved .dmg file to partition #2 and verified successful boot of the restored image.
6. Used the Tiger install CD's to do a clean install of Tiger to partition #3, verified successful boot and upgraded to 10.4.11. Also verified the ability to switch boot volumes successfully.
7 Installed Xbuntu to partitions #4 and #5, and allowed it to install yaboot to partition #1.

Result:
Yaboot allows me to boot ONE of the Mac partitions, or the Xbuntu partition. Depending on how I tweak the yaboot.conf file in Xbuntu, I can configure it to boot one or the other Mac partitions, but not both. If I put two "macosx=" lines in the yaboot.conf, the configuration program picks the first one it finds and uses that one only.

What I would like to do:
Either by configuring yaboot correctly - or by use of another boot utility - be able to choose any one of the three operating systems at boot time.
Viz.,
The boot menu would be something like this:
1. Old Tiger
2. New Tiger
3. Xbuntu

Has anyone tried this?

Does anyone have any ideas? Or am I just outta my mind. . . .

Jim (JR)

I like the outta your mind bit Jim.

It is only a G3 and compared to anything like a modern machine are ridiculously slow. Like running Windows 95 on a 700MHZ DELL.

harryb2448 said:

I like the outta your mind bit Jim.

It is only a G3 and compared to anything like a modern machine are ridiculously slow. Like running Windows 95 on a 700MHZ DELL.

Click to expand...

True my friend. . . . But IMHO, it beats the #$&*! outta nothing, 'eh?

As I see it, I have my choice - mess with the G3, or try to figure out why Windows Active Directory refuses to replicate.

Seriously now, I don't have the bux to spend on a (ahem!) "modern" Mac, (Jeez! I've bought entire CARS for less!), so I guess I'm stuck with what I have.

Also, this gives me a Golden Opportunity to mess with the source files for ybin. Maybe I can re-write the thing to allow multiple OSX's to boot? ;P

Oh, and about that 700 mhz Dell?

Up until recently, I had exactly that configuration as my main file server, running Ubuntu Linux, hooked up to over 6T of RAID-10 storage, and it worked like a MONSTER! Ran RINGS around the multi-Ghz machine I had running WinDoze. That thing could serve files faster than the other machines could soak them up. Seriously! And with SWAT running, it was an admin's dream come true.

Unfortunately the power supply gave up the ghost and fried the MoBo with it. So I upgraded to a system I threw together with a motherboard I had laying around with an Athlon 64 X2 on it, bought some ECC memory and an extra eSATA card, now I'm running close to 10T on it - still running Ubuntu with 'nary a burp to sully it's pristine reputation. (Of course, I have THIS MoBo in a case with a MUCH BETTER power supply and LOTS of ventilation.)

So be careful how you "diss" them old Dell boxes!

Jim (JR)

Welcome BTW

We have a number of members who also boot Linux. Some like me are dabblers but we ave our fair share of true geeks as well so you ought to fit right in.

Razormac said:

We have a number of members who also boot Linux. Some like me are dabblers but we ave our fair share of true geeks as well so you ought to fit right in.

Click to expand...

You are right about that!

BTW, I decided to take a peek "under the hood" and booted into Open Firmware on this beast - and I did a web-search on "open firmware".

WOW! ( :jaw-drop: )

I've dinked around at that level in the past, wrote my own embedded firmware too, but this was impressive! You can go all the way down, not only to the system's socks, but you can even set a parameter for what kind of cloth they're made out of. . . . . (and what color, and how they are woven, and which loom they're woven on, and. . . .)

I shudder to think what someone - not knowing what they were doing - could do to a perfectly good system. ( )

------------------------

Back on topic:
I decided to trash the xbuntu install - it was making me too crazy. I'm going to do a full-up Ubuntu install, get things working, and then download and re-compile the latest yaboot. (the one on the Ubuntu 10.04 LTS disks is woefully behind the times)

Once I get a successful compile, I'm gonna take me a good hard look at that ybin source - and see if I can make it do what I want.

If you folks are even remotely interested, I'll post the results of my adventures here. (and if I make any REAL progress, I'll toss this at the yboot mailing list too.)

Wish me luck!

Jim (JR)

A Solution that's an UGLY, UGLY, UGLY hack

Hello everyone!

I have a solution to this problem - though I will freely admit that it is probably the UGLIEST of the ugly hacks.

DISCLAIMER

This hack involves editing files in your boot partition, as well as editing Open Firmware settings. You need to either really know what you are doing, or get help from someone who does.

I did this on my system, and it worked.

I cannot be responsible for what happens on your system if you try this. If your system gets borked, you may have to have someone help you with resetting your Open Firmware. (Though you can try "set-defaults" and then "shut-down" from the Open Firmware screen, if you can still get there.)

Note: This hack only works on PPC based Mac's. Intel Macs use a different way of handling the bootstrap code - raw writing to a blank segment of the disk - which I won't touch with a 79 and one half foot pole.
</disclaimer>

All that being said. . . . On with the Show!

Solution:

1. Boot into Linux. (In MY case, it was Ubuntu 10.04)
2. Mount the "boot partition".
3. Open a root terminal. (Or type "sudo" before all the commands listed below.)
   • I have a terminal "launcher" (shortcut, icon, whatever) set up to run gksu (the terminal invocation command), to start the terminal window as ROOT. (After I enter my password, of course!)
   • I do this so, when I am working on the system, I don't have to type "sudo" every five seconds or so. But a root terminal can be dangerous, so you gotta pay attention.
4. Since the terminal starts me in my home directory, I "cd" to my desktop.
5. I then "cp /media/[partition mount point]/ofboot.b ./" and then "cp /media/[partition mount]/yaboot.conf ./" - which copies both files to my desktop - as root - so the file permissions don't get whacked.
6. I then run "gedit ofboot.b" and edit the ofboot.b file.
7. I do the same thing to the yaboot.conf file from that directory.
8. I then copy both files back to the boot partition using the root terminal, and then un-mount it.

There is one other thing that needs to be done:
You need to reboot (after modifying the files and re-copying them to the boot partition), and give the Macintosh "four-finger-salute" OPT - CMD - O - F to boot into Open Firmware.

Note: The actual Open Firmware commands are shown in a monospace font - you type what is in between the quotes, WITHOUT the actual quotes themselves.

Once there, you execute a "printenv" command so you can see what all the environment variables are set as.

The one you are interested in is labeled "boot-device" and will be followed by a long string of Egyptian Hieroglyphics. (The Open Firmware absolute device path to the boot partition.)

To guarantee that your modified ofboot.b file will be used - blessings notwithstanding - you have to make a small modification to that line.

You execute "setenv boot-device /pci. . . [whatever is on your system]. . . /ata-4@1f00/disk0:2,\ofboot.b"

Your "/pci. . . . ." line may look different from mine depending on your machine's configuration. The important things are:

1. Be very careful when you copy that line from the "printenv" listing. If you miss just one character, you could be hozed.
2. At the very end you will see something like "/disk0:2,\\tbxi hd:,\\tbxi" (Again, your system will likely be different, but the "tbxi" parts should be identical.)
3. You want to replace the entire ending part, after the "disk0:2," (or whatever it is on your system), with just "\ofboot.b" so that it looks like
   ". . ./disk0:2,\ofboot.b". Note that there is no space between the comma and the back-slash.

You then execute the "shut-down" command. Open Firmware will commit your changes to NVRAM and then shut down the system.

In my case, the "new" Tiger install is on partition 4, the "old" Tiger install is on partition 6, and the Ubuntu install is on partition 8. And because my ancient and crufty iBook G3 uses PATA hard drives instead of SATA drives, my drive references are "ata-xxx". SATA drives may well be different.

I edited the ofboot.b file to provide all three boot options, with human-readable menu names.

This is the edited version of my ofboot.b file:

============ begin inserted text =============

<CHRP-BOOT>
<COMPATIBLE>
MacRISC MacRISC3 MacRISC4
</COMPATIBLE>
<DESCRIPTION>
PowerPC GNU/Linux First Stage Bootstrap
Modified to boot more than one OSX partition.
By Jim Harris Feb. 4 2012
Released under the Creative Commons Share Alike license
(unless superseeded by the FSF "copyleft" license which might be applicable)
</DESCRIPTION>
<BOOT-SCRIPT>
: .printf fb8-write drop ;
: bootyaboot " Loading second stage bootstrap for Ubuntu Linux..." .printf 100 ms load-base release-load-area " /pci@f2000000/mac-io@17/ata-4@1f000/disk@0:2,\\yaboot" $boot ;
: bootold " Booting Original Tiger Install..." .printf 100 ms load-base release-load-area " /pci@f2000000/mac-io@17/ata-4@1f000/disk@0:6,\\:tbxi" $boot ;
: bootnew " Booting New Tiger Install..." .printf 100 ms load-base release-load-area " /pci@f2000000/mac-io@17/ata-4@1f000/disk@0:4,\\:tbxi" $boot ;
: bootcd " Booting CDROM..." .printf 100 ms load-base release-load-area " cd:,\\:tbxi" $boot ;
" screen" output
variable interactive
1 interactive !

0 interactive @ = if
bootyaboot
then

dev screen
" "(0000000000aa00aa0000aaaaaa0000aa00aaaa5500aaaaaa)" drop 0 7 set-colors
" "(5555555555ff55ff5555ffffff5555ff55ffffff55ffffff)" drop 8 15 set-colors
device-end
f to foreground-color
0 to background-color
" "(0C)" .printf

" First Stage Ubuntu Bootstrap"(0d 0a)" .printf
" "(0d 0a)" .printf
" Press l for GNU/Linux,"(0d 0a)" .printf
" o for Old Tiger,"(0d 0a)" .printf
" n for New Tiger,"(0d 0a)" .printf
" c for CDROM."(0d 0a)" .printf
" "(0d 0a)" .printf
" Stage 1 Boot: " .printf
get-msecs d# 10 3E8 * +
begin
key? if
key case
ascii l of " l "(0d 0a)" .printf bootyaboot endof
ascii o of " o "(0d 0a)" .printf bootold endof
ascii n of " n "(0d 0a)" .printf bootnew endof
ascii c of " c "(0d 0a)" .printf bootcd endof
endcase
then
dup get-msecs <
until
drop
" "(0d 0a)" .printf bootyaboot
</BOOT-SCRIPT>
<OS-BADGE-ICONS>
1010
000000000000F8FEACF6000000000000
0000000000F5FFFFFEFEF50000000000
00000000002BFAFEFAFCF70000000000
0000000000F65D5857812B0000000000
0000000000F5350B2F88560000000000
0000000000F6335708F8FE0000000000
00000000005600F600F5FD8100000000
00000000F9F8000000F5FAFFF8000000
000000008100F5F50000F6FEFE000000
000000F8F700F500F50000FCFFF70000
00000088F70000F50000F5FCFF2B0000
0000002F582A00F5000008ADE02C0000
00090B0A35A62B0000002D3B350A0000
000A0A0B0B3BF60000505E0B0A0B0A00
002E350B0B2F87FAFCF45F0B2E090000
00000007335FF82BF72B575907000000
000000000000ACFFFF81000000000000
000000000081FFFFFFFF810000000000
0000000000FBFFFFFFFFAC0000000000
000000000081DFDFDFFFFB0000000000
000000000081DD5F83FFFD0000000000
000000000081DDDF5EACFF0000000000
0000000000FDF981F981FFFF00000000
00000000FFACF9F9F981FFFFAC000000
00000000FFF98181F9F981FFFF000000
000000ACACF981F981F9F9FFFFAC0000
000000FFACF9F981F9F981FFFFFB0000
00000083DFFBF981F9F95EFFFFFC0000
005F5F5FDDFFFBF9F9F983DDDD5F0000
005F5F5F5FDD81F9F9E7DF5F5F5F5F00
0083DD5F5F83FFFFFFFFDF5F835F0000
000000FBDDDFACFBACFBDFDFFB000000
000000000000FFFFFFFF000000000000
0000000000FFFFFFFFFFFF0000000000
0000000000FFFFFFFFFFFF0000000000
0000000000FFFFFFFFFFFF0000000000
0000000000FFFFFFFFFFFF0000000000
0000000000FFFFFFFFFFFF0000000000
0000000000FFFFFFFFFFFFFF00000000
00000000FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF000000
00000000FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF000000
000000FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF0000
000000FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF0000
000000FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF0000
00FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF0000
00FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF00
00FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF0000
000000FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF000000
</OS-BADGE-ICONS>
</CHRP-BOOT>
============= end inserted text =============

I also edited the yaboot.conf file that exists in that directory.

Note that this is not really necessary, but I did this as a personal preference kind of thing.

My big change was to edit the "timeout" line to zero (no timeout) and add a "delay" line so that the menu would pause and give me time to press a key, but (with "timeout" = 0) when I boot Linux, it doesn't stop an ask me to "boot: " - since I'd rather it just boot directly into Linux without the delay.

Here it is:

============ begin inserted text =============

## yaboot.conf generated by the Ubuntu installer
##
## run: "man yaboot.conf" for details. Do not make changes until you have!!
## see also: /usr/share/doc/yaboot/examples for example configurations.
##
## For a dual-boot menu, add one or more of:
## bsd=/dev/hdaX, macos=/dev/hdaY, macosx=/dev/hdaZ

boot=/dev/hda2
device=/pci@f2000000/mac-io@17/ata-4@1f000/disk@0:
partition=8
root=/dev/hda8
timeout=0 <<<-- I set this to zero
delay=10 <<<-- I added this line
install=/usr/lib/yaboot/yaboot
magicboot=/usr/lib/yaboot/ofboot
enablecdboot
macosx=/dev/hda4

image=/boot/vmlinux
label=Linux
read-only
initrd=/boot/initrd.img
append="quiet splash"

image=/boot/vmlinux.old
label=old
read-only
initrd=/boot/initrd.img.old
append="quiet splash"

============= end inserted text =============

There it is, my two hacks.

Like I said, UGLY UGLY UGLY, but until I / someone else comes up with a better idea, this will have to do.

I have the two modified files, with root permissions set, in a special folder on my Ubuntu desktop. This way if - for whatever reason - the boot partition files get whacked, or I have to re-ybin the thing, I can put my carefully crafted files back when I'm done.

What I have also done is to download the tar-ball of the latest Yaboot sources (The 10.04 Ubuntu version is rather old).

I am going to try a fresh compile and see if I can get that to work. Once that is done, I am going to take a look at the sources and see if I can figure out a way to do this more cleanly within a "normally configured" yaboot.conf file (within Linux) instead of having to hack the boot partition directly.

If I figure something out, I will post here and toss it at the yaboot list-serv.

What say ye?

Jim (JR)

p.s.

If I can get an edited source to work, it should work on both Intel and PPC Macs. Unfortunately, I won't be able to test on anything more advanced than my crufty iBook G3.

Nice job Jim. But now that my head is still spinning from all that code..... ;P

Hey, have fun.

chscag said:

Nice job Jim. But now that my head is still spinning from all that code..... ;P

Hey, have fun.

Click to expand...

THAT'S my entire point. It should not require Open Heart Surgery to get a reasonable boot selection to work.

Since I DID have to do OHS to accomplish it, I thought it best to post my (ahem!) "Operative Notes" ( :lauging: ) so that my fellow surgeons could try this if they dared.

Follow Up: I've been reading about awk scripting, and it might actually be both easier, and more portable, to do this in awk rather than as a compiled binary.

What say ye?

Jim (JR)

Please check and verify my assumptions about Mac's partition structure.

Note:
I also posted this to the Yaboot mailing list.

However, since I can see that many of you have Intel Mac's (and I don't!), I thought that this forum might also be a valuable source of information / confirmation.

If you subscribe to both lists, please excuse my cross-post.

Thanks!

------------------------------------------------

Please examine my understanding of the PPC and Intel Mac partitioning structure, and either confirm that my understanding is correct, or let me know what it really is.

Thanks!

=========================

PPC:
1. I am assuming that this structure is true for *ANY* PPC based Mac: G3, G4, G5, G67, G117, or whatever (laughing!)
2. BCD creates TWO partitions for each one created using "Disk Utility" on the Mac
a. A "hidden" metadata partition
b. The actual partition created.

In other words, if I create five partitions, labeled "A", "B", "C", "D", and "E" within Disk Utility, what I actually get (when using Linux to view the structure) is this:
(a) "A", (b) "B", (c) "C", (d) "D", and (e) "E" - where partitions (a) through (e) are metadata partitions associated with partitions "A" through "E"

What this also means, is that if I create five partitions - numbered 1 through 5 - within the actual partition structure itself, they would be numbered 2 through 10, being the even numbered partitions. That is, five partitions created in Disk Utility, (1 through 5) become partitions 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10.

I have noticed that this is true on my G3 PPC. I would like to know if this is generally true on *ALL* PPC based Mac's

=========================

Intel:

1. Is the partition structure on an Intel Mac the same as the structure on a PPC Mac? (i.e. BCD creates two partitions for each one created in Disk Utility and they are structured in the same way.)

2. I know that on the PPC, the first partition created - which will become the bootstrap partition - is formatted as HFS+
I also know that on the Intel Mac, the bootstrap partition is not formatted because Yaboot writes to the "raw" partition itself.

Question: When you are creating a multi-boot environment on an Intel Mac, do you create the same kind of structure, except that you do NOT format the bootstrap partition?

IOW, when you lay out the partition structure in Disk Utility, is the first partition "unformatted" (or marked as "unused"?)

===========================

Thanks for any help you can provide!

p.s. Don’t forget – I’m always here for all of your computer or networking needs.

Jim "JR" Harris

Cool

I like your solution but its a little bit out of my league.
I have a newer Mac with lion and for the life of me tried to Install CentOS and a few other linux distros to no avail.
I ran rEFIt and grub and.... screwed up my partition table. rEFIt would recognize the Linux disks but wouldnt let me boot into them. I gave after a few tries and just got a used PC laptop for this purpose. It is a lot easier to get a PC to boot into Linux than Mac. I would love to get Linux running. Ill take another look at your solution when I get a minute.
Isn't printf a c++ command for seeing out?

EdMarx said:

I like your solution but its a little bit out of my league.
I have a newer Mac with lion and for the life of me tried to Install CentOS and a few other linux distros to no avail.
I ran rEFIt and grub and.... screwed up my partition table. rEFIt would recognize the Linux disks but wouldnt let me boot into them. I gave after a few tries and just got a used PC laptop for this purpose. It is a lot easier to get a PC to boot into Linux than Mac. I would love to get Linux running. Ill take another look at your solution when I get a minute.
Isn't printf a c++ command for seeing out?

Click to expand...

Ed,

I am assuming that your "newer Mac" is a PPC Mac?

What you are telling me does not surprise me one little bit. Unfortunately, Yaboot, and the documentation thereto, leaves a great deal to be desired.

There are two things working against you here:

1. The Mac partitioner makes TWO partitions for every one partition you create. A "metadata" partition, and the actual partition itself.
2. The PPC (and Intel!) versions of the Linux partitioner used during installation have absolutely NO CLUE about the Mac's partition structure. Which, in the case of Linux, is especially inexcusable because the Mac partition structure is derived from the Free BSD, (another 'nix clone), partition structure.

Because of the way the Mac partitioner works, if you create three Mac partitions, (we will assume you are using Disk Utility), you are actually creating SIX partitions. Unfortunately, the Mac "lies" to you, so you are totally unaware you are creating all these partitions.
Viz.,

• Metadata partition
• Partition 1
• Metadata partition
• Partition 2
• Metadata partition
• Partition 3

What's even more unfortunate is that if you, accidentally, screw up any one of the metadata partitions, the associated "real" partition is hozed. To make matters worse, if you just happen to screw up the FIRST metadata partition, you hoze the entire disk because that is where the BSD partition table, (logical disk map), is located.

To pour even more gasoline on a raging forest-fire, Linux sees all the metadata partitions as "free space" and will (depending on the distro), either combine them into solid blocks of free space, or leave you with a scattered maze of spaces that Linux will allow you to write over willy-nilly.

Important Note:
I have NEVER DONE THIS ON AN INTEL MAC, and as a consequence I am not sure how the partitioning, or running of Yaboot, works on an Intel Mac system. I am guessing, based on what I have seen in the documentation. If I ever get the thousands of dollars needed to buy an Intel Mac, I will be happy to try this out and post updated instructions.
YMMV - Your Mileage May Vary

These instructions are based on my install on a PPC Mac, loading a PPC distribution of Ubuntu Linux.

This is how I solved this problem:
(I am assuming you are trying to create a disk with two operating systems on it, one Mac, and one Linux. You can extend this to accommodate as many operating systems as you wish. If you have questions, post here and I will try to help)

1. Download SuperDuper - it's freeware for what we want to do - and use it to make a .dmg file of your existing Mac partition.
2. Using Disk Utility, wipe the disk and create an entirely new partition structure. Create the following partitions:
   1. A very small partition to use as the bootstrap partition. 16 megs (or thereabouts), is more than enough.
      I formatted mine as HFS+ and labeled it "bootstrap" I am not sure how you would do this on an Intel Mac, as I don't have one. Formatting as HFS+ is required for PPC Mac's.
   2. A partition of whatever size you want for your Mac O/S that you backed up in step #1. Format as HFS+, and label it as "Tiger", "Lion", "Godzilla", or whatever.
   3. A partition of whatever size you want for your Linux install, formatted as "unix" for the Linux install, label it whatever you want, but remember the size you gave the partition.
   4. The last part of the disk should be formatted to a couple of gigs, formatted as "unix" labeled "swap space"
      You need to do this special formatting, so that you can find these partitions when you install Linux.
   5. Restore the previously saved Mac partition into the partition you created before and labeled as the Mac O/S in step #2.
   6. Reboot, and verify that the Mac O/S boots properly.
   7. Reboot with the Linux install disk in the CD/DVD drive, and boot to the optical media.
   8. Follow the instructions as to the particular distribution's install. Stop when you get to the "partition" step and select "create partitions manually"!
   9. The Linux installer should show you the way the existing disk is formatted, and you will notice that it is a whole maze of partitions, scattered all over the disk,
   10. Select the second partition, you should notice that it is about 16 megs in size. Hit "change" and mark it as partition type "New Age"
   11. The sixth partition should me labeled as an "unknown" partition type, and should be the size you gave the Linux partition when you created it in Disk Utility. (On my system it was the sixth partition.) You should verify this on your system as it will be the first of two partitions labeled as "unknown".
   12. Select "change" and mark this partition to be formatted as ext4, give it whatever label you want, and set the mount point as "/" (root)
   13. Find the second partition marked as "unknown", (probably the last one), and verify that it is the same size you allocated for the swap partition.
   14. Select "change" and mark this partition as "swap space".

At this point you should be able to complete the installation of the distribution without messing up your Linux partition. On a PPC installation it will automatically install yaboot into the second partiton, bless as needed, and allow you to reboot.

On reboot, you should see a boot menu allowing you to boot into either your Mac partition or the Linux partition.

Re: The "printf" statement.
"printf" is commonly used in many programming languages, C, C++, VB, etc. AFAIK, the ofboot.b file is written in FORTH - which also uses "printf".

What say ye?

Jim (JR)

Is an Intel. All new Macs are. Which is why I cant get any OSX newer than Leopard on my G4.

You need a blog. I really like your style of writing. You have low level knowledge of computing, yet make the viewer laugh as you explain it.

Mac is great but does have some flaws when it comes to doing things they didnt intent for you to do, like your doing. This is why I like linux, when I learn things in linux I gain a much deeper understaning of how things actually work. As you mentioned, both being nix, I have even learned a lot of terminal commands that work on my mac. On the subject, cant I just edit a "partition" file with nano or vi and simply say this goes here and that goes there? or is it not that simple? That part of your code that threw me off was the badge icons. What do those do?

Here is the tut I followed
Clicky Clicky

Truth is I was probably doing a few things at once and didnt pay close enough attention to the details.

Do you know about linux servers and accessing them from outside?

I appreciate all of the help and like that quote by Kennedy. Ive never heard that before.

EdMarx said:

Is an Intel. All new Macs are. Which is why I cant get any OSX newer than Leopard on my G4.

Click to expand...

Don't feel too bad, My "Hot Smokin!" iBook G3 (at a wailing 700mHz!) will only load up to Tiger.

EdMarx said:

You need a blog. I really like your style of writing. You have low level knowledge of computing, yet make the viewer laugh as you explain it.

Click to expand...

Sorry about that - I already beat you to the punch there. If you're curious about other aspects of my sick sense of humor you can go visit me at http://www.qatechtips.com More of my rants can be found at http://www.jimspeaksout.com

Fortunately, (or unfortunately as the case may be), I have been working with electronics, hardware, software, and computers all the way back to when the Bleeding Edge of Technology was an IBM - 029 Keypunch. So, I guess one or two minor details have soaked through this thick head of mine. (p.s. If you know anyone who is hiring. . . .)

EdMarx said:

Mac is great but does have some flaws when it comes to doing things they didnt intent for you to do, like your doing.

Click to expand...

You don't say! Say it ain't so DiMaggio! Apple would NEVER do something as dastardly and underhanded as that!

EdMarx said:

This is why I like linux, when I learn things in linux I gain a much deeper understaning of how things actually work. As you mentioned, both being nix, I have even learned a lot of terminal commands that work on my mac.

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In just about every book on the subject of either Linux, or doing something on the Mac that goes beyond following the Lemmings, every author reminds us that "The Terminal is your Friend"! You can do things in a terminal window - with trivial ease - that require a vast knowledge of Voodoo Magic via the GUI - on both the Mac and Linux.

EdMarx said:

On the subject, cant I just edit a "partition" file with nano or vi and simply say this goes here and that goes there? or is it not that simple?

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Ed. . . No, you can't do things that easily when it comes to partitions. Think of it this way - the partition structure of a disk is a lot like the foundation of a house. You can't simply pick the house up off it's foundation and decide to re-arrange things. Actually you can, and I have. However it's about as easy as doing it with a real house. I don't recommend doing that unless you have a violent masochistic streak, and have a DARN GOOD REASON to try it.

EdMarx said:

[The] part of your code that threw me off was the badge icons. What do those do?

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On some systems - perhaps even your G4 - there is a "magic" keyboard shortcut, (I think it is "O"), that allows you to choose which OS you want to boot. On these later systems the "Which OS to boot" selection screen comes with little icons for each OS choice. This icon bitmap allows yaboot to provide a "Linux" icon bitmap for the selection screen.

Of course, my bleeding edge G3 doesn't do that, so I have never seen the icon itself, though from looking at the bit patterns I think it's a penguin.

EdMarx said:

Truth is I was probably doing a few things at once and didnt pay close enough attention to the details.

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And don't you believe it! If I had $20 for every time I put MY foot in my mouth doing something like this, I'd be writing this message from my private island in the Mediterranean, sipping Mint Juleps, leaning back in my chase lounge.

I refer to it as "Athletes Tongue" It's what you get when you have your foot in your mouth too often.

EdMarx said:

Do you know about linux servers and accessing them from outside?

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Probably just enough to get myself into trouble.

Seriously, I don't know what to tell you without further information - and that would be way outside the scope of this thread.

EdMarx said:

I appreciate all of the help and like that quote by Kennedy. Ive never heard that before.

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You're very welcome!

IMHO, chewing toenail is bad enough as it is. If I can help someone else avoid it, that's even better.

What say ye?

Jim (JR)

Man you had me laughing the whole time.
I G+'d your tech blog. I dont really use social media but I think my name is ada amera which is short for advertisingamerica my email.

I think its "O"

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On my macs its option which is alt on win keyboard. But you probably know that.

Ed. . . No, you can't do things that easily when it comes to partitions. Think of it this way - the partition structure of a disk is a lot like the foundation of a house. You can't simply pick the house up off it's foundation and decide to re-arrange things.

Makes sense.

I'm like you when it comes to OS loyalty. I have none. I use Mac for most of my Adobe stuff and web design.
I use linux as a desktop one one of my old computers with bad specs, and for a server I am setting up.
I use Windows for gaming and programming. I am just learning, but I find its simply easier to learn on Windows because it simply supports more.

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EdMarx said:

Man you had me laughing the whole time.

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Seriously, that's half the fun. IMHO, if I don't make at least one person laugh or smile in the course of the day, I shouldn't have got outta bed.

EdMarx said:

I G+'d your tech blog.

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You COULD have saved yourself the time, and avoided the advertisements and cross-links, by simply clicking the hyperlink I conveniently provided for just that purpose. . . .

EdMarx said:

I dont really use social media but I think my name is ada amera which is short for advertisingamerica my email.

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I have a FaceBork account too - which I visit, maybe, once in six or so months - if I am that bored. (And I have to be PRETTY DOGGONE BORED) to stoop to that level.

EdMarx said:

On my macs its option which is alt on win keyboard. But you probably know that.

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Wanna surprise? No I didn't.

Remember, my experience with the Mac is all of a whopping month-or-two old. AND it's on one of the hottest of the Hot Smokin' Weapons out there in Mac land. I even have a real, live, Gen-you-wine Mac keyboard and mouse for it too. Though I will admit ditching the Mac mouse for a PC (Microsoft!) mouse because I got tired of banging my pinky finger on the desktop looking for the right mouse button. Also, the Mac recognizes and uses the right mouse button for a whole lot of interesting things that they'll never admit to in a thousand years.

EdMarx said:

I'm like you when it comes to OS loyalty. I have none.

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That's not entirely true. IMHO a computer - as well as its operating system and applications, are a tool. Sometimes a hammer is just what the doctor ordered. Other times it's a screwdriver. (I prefer mine with a twist of lemon!) And there are times when I am convinced that the best tool for the job is a stick of dynamite!

The bottom line is that there are times when WinDoze is the right tool. (I use it 99.999999% of the time.) Sometimes it's Linux. (I have Ubuntu 10.04 LTS - Desktop - running my ten-terrabyte file-server.) And sometimes it's the Mac. (When I feel a masochistic streak coming on.)

It really has nothing to do with "loyalty". It has to do with getting the job done. If a Mac works best for you for Adobe and Web design - than it would be insanity for you to give up that tool and try to use Linux, or Windows, as a replacement.

I primarily use Windows for my "administrative" tasks. E-mail, web browsing, downloading skumware pirated software that's bang full of viruses, etc. I think that Word Perfect beats the *&$^@!! out of Word, Open Office, or half a dozen others. (I use it - among other things - for making "camera ready" advertisements for my wife's Real Estate business.)

I use Linux when I need to get "down and dirty" - like recovering data off of a trashed hard drive, or other UGLY tasks that other OS's have not even dreamed of in their nightmares!

EdMarx said:

I use Mac for most of my Adobe stuff and web design.
I use linux as a desktop one one of my old computers with bad specs, and for a server I am setting up.
I use Windows for gaming and programming. I am just learning, but I find its simply easier to learn on Windows because it simply supports more.

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Like I said, whatever floats your boat. The idea is to pick what you believe is the best tool for the job. And leave the cross-platform Religious Wars to the Computer Wannabees.

What say ye?

Jim (JR)