P.C. user on a MAC, help dispel my hatred

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I have been a devout PC user for the past 15 years and the time finally came where I have to work on a MAC. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't if I didn't have to, but I'm a graphic designer and my new job requires it.

I understand I am a little biased toward PCs, but I am not closed-minded. Maybe it’s possible to use a mac as quick and efficiently as I can my PC and I just haven’t figured it out yet. Either way, let me first start by describing what drives me crazy about MACs and maybe someone can give me some counter points to my arguments.

1. MACs are better for graphic design
How on earth did MACS ever get this reputation??? I have been in and out of graphic design for the past 13 years and worked on both. And the software is exactly the same. There is nothing in you can do in Photoshop on a MAC that you can't do on a PC. I have heard the excuse that MACs are so much faster and don't crash or get viruses. That's nice if that's what you want to tell yourself that, but MACs crash just the same as PCs, sure they dont get as many viruses, but I have had a PC for more than 15 years and I have NEVER gotten a virus (I am not lying about that) on Win 9x, Windows XP, Windows Vista, or Windows 7. Oh yeah, remember your paying an arm and a leg for a MAC. If you were to dump the same amount of money on a PC, your system would be just as fast. Go ahead and look at the hardware/pricing comparisons. Infact PCs will cost a little bit less for the same hardware.

2. MACs are prettier and aren't so corporate looking.
Umm, hello? You can customize a PC to look ANYWAY you want. You could in the past, and you can now....Trust me, I have had and have seen plenty of PCs that look 10 times "prettier" than any MAC. Also back in the day, there was a program called litestep, an alternate shell to your Windows operating system (which only computer nerds have heard about) which literally allowed you to re-program the way your PC looked and behaved. This was totally awesome and no MAC user then could boast anything similar about a MAC.

MACs aren't upgradeable
When I saw the first iMac, back in, I think 98...My friend was bragging about how cool it was....I took a look, and the first thing I thought was...How do you upgrade it? What if I want a bigger monitor? What if I want to use more than one monitor? What if I want to install more RAM? What if I want to replace the graphics card, sound card, or any other piece of hardware? The fact is the only way to upgrade a MAC is buy a new one. It was true then, and it's true now.

Working on a MAC is clunky and slow
Ok, I know this one is up for debate, it all depends on how you use it….But here are the things that I find the worst about working on a MAC

A. There is no separation between programs. I work in Photoshop, Illustrator and Indesign every day, and usually I have all three programs open at once with at least 2 or 3 windows in each program. On a PC if you’re in photoshop and want to switch to InDesign you simply ALT+tab to Indesign. Indesign opens up and completely covers photoshop. On a MAC, there is no separation. If I am in photoshop, I can see all the open windows from every other program I am running and/or folders I have open on my desktop. I don’t want to see any other program. If I am working in one program, I ONLY WANT TO SEE THE CONTENTS OF THAT PROGRAM! I was working with my friend on his MAC, and I asked him, how do you prevent accidentally clicking another program? His answer was to minimize all the windows of each program….Are you serious? Every time I want to switch programs, I have to minimize 12 windows? That’s insane!!! Visually, this lack of separation is a nightmare and looks ultra-cluttered.

a. I know about SPACES, but to me, seems to be a ridiculously clunky and convoluted solution to something Windows does very simply and efficiently and still doesn’t address the minimize problem. Also, incase any MAC users were wondering, there are a lot of “Spaces-like” programs on PCs that do the same thing. I find it to be slow.

B. Option-tabbing through open programs on MAC doesn’t restore all minimized windows for that program. Like I was saying before, say you want to go from Photoshop to Indesign and you have a couple of windows minimized in Indesign, if you option-tab to Indesign, the minimized windows don’t restore. No, instead, the program becomes active but all the windows are still on your doc. On a PC, if you ALT+tab through open programs, the one you select opens up immediately bringing all the open windows with it.

C. No way to minimize all windows and all applications with the click of a button or stroke of a key to reveal the desktop. On a PC, if you press (Window+D), all applications minimize and the desktop is revealed. It’s such a simple keyboard shortcut and it’s such a useful feature. I don’t know, maybe I am wrong, is there one for MAC that does this?

D. I was watching my friend who is a graphic designer work on his mac and he is SO SLOW, he uses keyboard shortcuts in his programs, but when cycling through programs, going on the internet, or just general usage, he moves at a snails pace. I have three monitors, one 24 inch, one 19 inch, and one 17 inch. The things that take him 15-20 minutes would take me 5 on my PC. On my PC, I can whirl around any program I want with next to no usage of my mouse in NO TIME… Or, if I feel like it’s a mouse day, having three monitors allows me to drag and drop things from program to program in warp speed. Techniques that I have never seen replicated on a MAC.

E. The Finder bar to me is ridiculous. It disallows you from minimizing programs. You can minimize program windows, but not the program itself, no you have to actually click somewhere on the desktop to deactivate a program. Maybe this is just preference, but it seems to be more efficient to have all of a programs menus/options attached to the actual program, not the monitor. On a PC any open program’s menus are attached to the program window itself and if you want the program to go away, you can simply minimize or close, no worrying on whether it’s still open somewhere. Also, the Finder forces you to have a bar going across your screen, PCs don’t have a finder bar or an application dock. Your desktop is literally clean and clear of any useless visual distractions.

Anyway, those are my main gripes about MACs (trust me, I have more), sorry for the long post and I would love to hear feedback…Maybe I just don’t know enough? Please help me dispel my hatred for MACS, it would make my life soooo much easier.

Thanks
 

pigoo3

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Anyway, those are my main gripes about MACs (trust me, I have more), sorry for the long post and I would love to hear feedback…Maybe I just don’t know enough? Please help me dispel my hatred for MACS, it would make my life soooo much easier.

Thanks for taking all that time to type out such a detailed post. I'm a 25+ year "Mac Person"...and although I would love to respond...I'm not going to bite!;)

This question/statement/post does get asked fairly frequently...for example:

- the Mac vs. PC threads
- the "Help Me Convince My Wife to Switch to Mac" threads
- etc.

If you're REALLY interested...please search the site.

- Nick
 
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Pretty much a troll. No one will be able to "force a change in attitude."

Don't like OSX, don't use it.
 
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It's also Mac, as in an abbreviated form of Macintosh, not MAC which is a completely different thing altogether.

As has already been pointed out, just search the forums, unless your true intent is to troll, in which case, you and your thread won't exist long enough to matter. ;)
 
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I use both Mac and PC at work and I generally can get almost anything done faster on the Mac. As for upgrade most of the time if not all notebooks which are the hottest sellers
don't offer much if any upgrade path and most of the time on a desktop it requires a forklift overhaul such as a different mother board to accommodate the newer CPU/GPU along with different ram and a bigger power supply. It's a tool get what you are comfortable with in the end you will be happier. I tend to want to know how to use both
and will be trying Linux in the future nothing like being diversified on the resume.
 
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wasn't meant as a gripe

Ok sorry, I guess I can see how that all sounded like one big complaint.

Again, because I have to work on a MAC, I just want to know how I can get as fast as I am on a PC. I know it will take time to get used to, but I am really interested in learning how MAC users deal with the issues I have stated

Thanks
 

pigoo3

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Ok sorry, I guess I can see how that all sounded like one big complaint.

Again, because I have to work on a MAC, I just want to know how I can get as fast as I am on a PC. I know it will take time to get used to, but I am really interested in learning how MAC users deal with the issues I have stated

Thanks

"Schweb" already mentioned that the proper (or widely accepted) abbreviation for a Macintosh computer is "Mac" not "MAC"!

So this is one very quick & easy place to start in becoming more "Mac-Savvy"!:)

- Nick
 

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Ok sorry, I guess I can see how that all sounded like one big complaint.

Again, because I have to work on a MAC, I just want to know how I can get as fast as I am on a PC. I know it will take time to get used to, but I am really interested in learning how MAC users deal with the issues I have stated

Thanks

Suggest then you distill what you would like to know/need help on into a few short bullets or questions. No one here is going to feel particularly disposed to wade through a bunch of venting (understand the feelings of frustration) to try to sort out the valid questions.
 
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1. While modern PC's are certainly good enough for graphic design work, there was a time, back in the 90's, when more software for such things was made for Macs than for Windows. So there is a longer history of support for them. But some would say OS X's anti-aliasing and ColorSync technologies still make for a better graphic design experience. Windows has certainly come a long way, but it had to catch up with what Macs have always done. Also, Windows machines run the gamut from cheap to extravagant, while Apple only makes computers on the higher end, meaning all Macs have great screens for graphic design work while many PC screens are less than optimal in order to keep prices down. When I have to meet with my producer to look at projects on his Windows laptop, it's amazing how much we have to squint just to see video clearly.

No one has ever claimed that Macs NEVER crash. They just crash far less often, and when they do it rarely affects overall system performance.

As for viruses, of course you can avoid ever getting one on a PC, but rarely without AV software. The beauty of OSX is that not only will you not get viruses, but you don't have to have AV software always running, taking up resources and slowing you down with security sweeps.

And the cost of a Mac is not much more than a PC that is not only similarly spec'd, but is also made of similarly high quality parts and is spruced up with Windows equivalents of iLife. That's why there ARE such things as PC's that cost as much as and more than Macs. There are many price comparisons that prove this. Once you factor in the cost of AV software, the cost of removing crapware and the cost of programs that are as powerful as the entire line of iLife applications, the difference is only a couple of hundred bucks, which many people don't mind paying for a superior total product. It isn't just the OS, it's the high quality build and the out-of-the-box software like Garageband that make Macs a good choice for people who understand the difference between cost and value.

Which computer would you expect to be cheaper: one made from a single block of aluminum with a high quality glass screen and an unrivaled trackpad, or one made of plastic with creaky hinges and clips that break and a screen that's too dim even with the brightness turned all the way up?

2. Totally subjective opinion. Again, OS X was looking nice back when Windows XP was rather simple. I like the look of W7 but again, many of its aesthetics and newer features were done long ago on Macs. Also, the casual user doesn't want to have to learn how to re-program their computers to make them look nicer. OS X looks so good out of the box that most people don't feel that anything is lacking. And you can customize some things simply enough with LiteIcon or Candybar.

3. Clearly you've been misinformed. While SOME hardware is not upgradeable in an iMac (a side effect of having everything fit inside a space-saving design), you CAN upgrade RAM and hard drives. I've upgraded the hard drive, RAM, and optical drive on my Macbook Pro rather easily and everything on the Mac Pro is upgradeable. And you can indeed hook a Mac up to another monitor. Right now I have my MBP's desktop extended to my TV screen. Where did you hear that this isn't possible?

It sounds like you haven't spent much time using OS X. You can indeed use Command-Tab to cycle through your open applications, and a single keystroke, mouse button or trackpad swipe will bring up all your open windows so you can choose which one you want to work with next.

Because Macs have traditionally been used by people in design careers using several applications at once, it has made sense to have a program's window only expand enough to see the contents of a project, with other windows visible for easy switching. But if you don't like this, you can resize a window to full screen and OSX will usually remember that next time you use the program or whenever you toggle the Zoom button. Also, some programs, like Final Cut Pro, take up the entire screen by default. If you really can't get used to how the Zoom button works, you can download a free simple tool like RightZoom that makes it work just like the Windows Maximize button.

Windows can be hidden without minimizing them to the Dock at all just by using Hide Others from a single program, and can be called back up again just as easily with the Application Switcher. In fact, I never feel the need to take the extra step of minimizing a window to the Dock because it's so much easier just to hide it instead. Then when I use the application switcher, all of that application's open windows just reappear without having to click on the Dock. To new OS X users, the Dock may seem to be the equivalent of the Windows tool bar, but it really doesn't work the same way. If you're expecting it to work like something it's not, of course you're going to be frustrated.

Having the application menus in the top menu bar is really no different from having them at the top of a maximized Windows window. And you can hide the Dock if you don't want it taking up space, or even move it to another edge of your screen.

Not sure why you think Spaces is slow. Just hit a shortcut key and toggle between all your virtual desktops. How much faster does it need to be. And you're not REQUIRED to use Spaces. I rarely use it, others use it often. The only time I can think of when it might work slowly is if you have many processor-intensive programs open in different spaces, but that's what happens when you have too many processes going in too many open programs on ANY computer. What's your point?

Windows and OS X are two totally different operating systems. Things may be done differently, but that doesn't mean they can't be done at least as quickly or efficiently. It's like blaming a giraffe for not being an elephant. If you prefer the features of Windows over those of OSX, however misguided you may be, that's fine. But why should you HATE something because you prefer something else?

And just WHY are you trying to get over this irrational hatred? Do you have to work with a Mac at your job or something?

It's always kind of interesting how those who have such strong, irrational hatred of OS X are those who have obviously never used it for any significant length of time. I know, I used to be an Apple hater and swore I'd never stoop to using a Mac. Now I can't imagine ever using Windows as my primary OS again. That doesn't mean I have to have a HATRED of Windows. In fact, I run W7 on Fusion should I ever need it (which I haven't in years).

Letting go of your Windows habits and mindset are essential to learning a new OS. If you spend all your time and energy trying to make OSX work like Windows, you're never going to get the hang of it.
 
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Graphic Designers (real ones, anyway) prefer Macs to Windows primarily for three reasons:

1. No viruses, less downtime, fewer inexplicable issues, a more integrated (hardware and software) design

2. The OS (once you learn it, of course) gets out of your way far, far more than Windows does. You'll see.

3. Apple has always had (right from Day One on the Mac) an emphasis on fonts, typography, elegance and design. Windows has always had a slapped-together, bolted-on, built-up-rather-sloppily-from-DOS design. A genuine creative professional would be just as offended by this as a professional photographer would be if you made him use a plastic toy camera made by Fisher-Price.

But nobody is going to change your attitude about this other than you. If you're not willing to adjust your mental blocks, you're probably going to have to find another line of work, because the printing industry (well, above the mom-and-pop-doing-business-cards level) is pretty much all Mac.

Come to think of it, the more important deadlines and getting it right the first time are, the more often you'll find Macs. Maybe there's a reason for that. Maybe you'll eventually come to wonder why.
 
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I will only say this to the OP. You don't WANT to be using a Mac, therefore nothing we tell you is likely to change your mind about using one. You have some serious preconceived notions and you've really displayed no desire to learn how to use the system willingly. You've simply asked a bunch of complaining questions that show your unwillingness to open up your mind to possibilities.

My suggestion is you either go back to using a PC or find work that allows you to use the platform/OS of your choice. Anything else will likely have a negative impact on your work in the long run. Asking us to convince you that this is the best machine for your line of work is simply silly and I doubt many here will bother with it. We don't need to convince you, you need to convince yourself.
 
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3. ...A genuine creative professional would be just as offended by this as a professional photographer would be if you made him use a plastic toy camera made by Fisher-Price.

You should see some of the great effects you can get from plastic toy cameras! Personally, if you handed me one and said "go shoot a roll of film" I would take off and probably shoot 5 rolls. Offended? No, not a professional.
 
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You should see some of the great effects you can get from plastic toy cameras! Personally, if you handed me one and said "go shoot a roll of film" I would take off and probably shoot 5 rolls. Offended? No, not a professional.

You misunderstand me (and perhaps the OP will to, so I will explain). I take all your cameras and other tools AWAY from you and make you use ONLY a cheap plastic toy camera. FOREVER. Even though you're well aware of all the tools you COULD be using.
 
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You misunderstand me (and perhaps the OP will to, so I will explain). I take all your cameras and other tools AWAY from you and make you use ONLY a cheap plastic toy camera. FOREVER. Even though you're well aware of all the tools you COULD be using.

Well, hmm. But see, you CAN customize the look/feel of Windows. It is not static.

FTR, I dont really care what the OP thinks.
 
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Well, the problem is that you aren't a switcher - you've been forced to make the change, as you said, so I guess you're just going to have to put up with things until you change your job again and get back to a PC house :)
 
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Well, hmm. But see, you CAN customize the look/feel of Windows. It is not static.


As a PC user at work I find that to be a way over rated feature. In fact I, I'm not even sure I would consider it a positive, but that's just me.
 
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As a PC user at work I find that to be a way over rated feature. In fact I, I'm not even sure I would consider it a positive, but that's just me.

But put it in context with the full statement from chas_m. I have been working on Windows since before 3.1, servers since 3.51, UNIX, IRIX, Linux.
 
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I have nothing else to do, besides finals, so I'll chime in on this with my opinion.

What I have noticed is that in most "legit" design corps, and by legit, I mean they bring in the $$$$MUULLAAA*****$ for what they do, they ALL use Mac setups. Places that use Windows for design are almost always smaller shops, studios, or companies that don't specifically do business dealing with design alone, and don't usually have a list of clientele that give projects that were due the day before they were assigned. Consistency is not their most important criteria, budget is. Ever since I went to the Cleveland Institute of Art, and the Art Institute of Pittsburgh, Macs were the only thing that would give you consistent results, day in, day out. And for most people that think they can do the same thing on Windows, it's usually because they have grown so accustomed to the same problem happening over and over again, that they think it's normal. When it comes to media, business revolves around a Mac.

As for looks of a Mac setup, whenever someone brings up the fact that you can customize the "looks" of a "PC," I always think of how you compare something that you do yourself, to something that you get right out of the box, pre-built. If you want to really have a conversation, why not talk about a comparison of apple's to apple's? Compare Apple to HP/Dell/etc, not something that technically can have no brand origin. This goes for pretty much EVERY argument that spews up the custom building of computer. That doesn't go just against Apple, but all the other companies as well.

As for "clunky and slow"...hold on...give me a sec...what???

What really throws me off in your original post, is this:
MACs aren't upgradeable
When I saw the first iMac, back in, I think 98...My friend was bragging about how cool it was....I took a look, and the first thing I thought was...How do you upgrade it? What if I want a bigger monitor? What if I want to use more than one monitor? What if I want to install more RAM? What if I want to replace the graphics card, sound card, or any other piece of hardware? The fact is the only way to upgrade a MAC is buy a new one. It was true then, and it's true now.
My first thought is, have you been hibernating since '98? 100% of that statement is is false!
 
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I am unable to that thread. I receive the following messsage:

MontyMo, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.

I just noticed in the url the thread is in a deleted folder. Could that be the reason?

Thanks
Monty
 
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What's the point fellas? There be none so blind etc. and amazed mods have not pulled down the shutter.
 
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