Assuming The Best Case With Careful Attention

PatM · Jul 6, 2011

I have a two part question if I may.

I am new to Mac having been a Windows user for 20 years.

1. I just want to understand the Mac operating system. By that I just mean is it Unix or some variation of Unix or some other language? (Pretty simple question I think I'm just curious.

2. My second question is probably a little more subjective. I believe our computer system at work is Unix. It serves 150 users in 4 states and it is rarely down. I mean if it fails to the point where users can't work once or twice a year it is rare and when that happens many times it is a hardware failure not a Unix failure. Sorry for the long intro, my Mac set up is pretty simple. I have Quicken, YNAB, MSFT Office, Picasa and E Wallet. Plus what comes with the Mac OS. Parallels and only access to the company system via the Windows partition. I try not to add things that I don't need and If I do I GET it real quick and typically uninstall it. I don't do much experimentation if you will. If I keep my nose clean and don't do something stupid is it possible to get the type of performance from this Mac as our company system produces year in and year out? (In 20 years of Windows computing I have never been infected with Spyware, a virus etc. I try to be very very careful.)

Is it a possible to do that? And as a side note are there any users out there that have experienced this type of performance with a Mac Operating system?

Pardon me for the long winded discourse.

Regards,

Pat

purple · Jul 6, 2011

1. Rumor is that Mac OS began with BSD. I have never looked under the hood of either BSD or OS X, so I can not say. I can guess that OS X has diverged a lot from BSD or its Unix source over the years. Most of my use of OS X is point and click, just like my use of Windows.

There is a rumor that Intuit programs will not work under Lion, the next Apple OS. Not sure whether Quicken would continue to work under the Windows side either.

I am perplexed as to why you bought an Apple if you only intend to use the Windows side under Parallels. From a security standpoint, I would think Windows (and its programs) under a VM is still Windows and prone to Windows problems.

I guess you are aware that you can use Boot Camp and have Windows on its own separate partition like the Apple is a Windows PC.

I find the Apple OS X to be intuitive and easy to use, well with a few exceptions. I think the interface for the Disc Utility is not very good. I am not thrilled with how some of Itunes works, but it is not worse than Windows Media Player with similar issues. Itunes being used to also market to me, protect DMA, and now interface with Ipod, Ipad. Itunes does not do some things easily, or not at all.

Other than the problems I created, my late year 2009 Mac Book Pro has worked quite well. The hardware has been rock solid, except for the time I poured half a glass of diet coke into it. The biggest issues I have had with software has been to use Onyx (donation ware) to fix file permissions. One can fix file permissions from the DVD which originally came with your computer. Like someone has a tagline here says, "Hold onto those install Discs like grim death."

I have heard some of the current Mac Book Pro models have a crash issue which can be duplicated and is not fixable. Apple Care replaces such notebooks without question.

In practice, I do not think I have heard of anyone here who had malware. I have heard of hacks in theory. Until recently, the safety of Mac OS X has been because it is not a target of the malware hackers. I think that is ending, as the OS X market share is increasing, and I am guessing the thieves will realize that on average, Apple owners spend more money on ech computer, and are a juicy target.

Within a few days Apple will release Lion, which has more security features, and allows for some cool VM things as well. Exactly if running OS X under OS X and then Windows software will allow for better security I can not guess.

In short, in practice, for any malware to infect an Apple, the use must type in the login Password.

Yes, a few months ago there was a hack that involved using a browsers already set permission to allow it to install software one might hit on a web page. Not sure, but I think the later versions of Snow Leopard fixed that one. Also there was one where some had been tricked into installing an alternative to a well known Apple program, which some installed thinking it was a well known trustworthy Apple program. There is this constant ongoing issues with Flash, I suspect Java will sometimes have security issues, and then there is Java Script. Lion is to have with a Sandbox type program.

There is a free AV: Clam AV. A resident scanner is a pay item, like Intego.

I really like Apple Care. For the duration one buys it for, and I bought three years, you get hardware repair on the computer for failures. Apple Care does not cover using the battery up (Meaning battery cycles, if it just quits, that is another matter), or physical damage to ones computer, like dropping it or driving over in a car, and pouring diet coke onto it.

In case you do spill liquid into your computer, Immediately: turn it so no more liquid will get through keyboard, while turning it off. Do Not Turn computer Back On. Wait several days before turning it on. Maybe call Apple Care, or come here for advice. Two Whisper fans are blowing air out of the back of the computer, which pulled through the space around the keys, so as to cool off the most expensive part of the Notebook.

Apple Care has a really neat option you might not know about yet. It allows you to go to the Genius Bar with hardware issues or OS issues. That takes an appointment at an Apple Store. You can call Apple Care at any time with questions. One will get someone who speaks English as a first language, not someone from India or Pakistan. The person will be well trained, polite, knowledgeable and will really try to help you with Apple Software problems or how to get some part of the hardware working.

I am not sure if I trust Time Machine, the Mac OS back up software. One never knows if a back up program works until one tries to restore something, and some part of it does not come back.

If I said anything incorrect here, I hope someone will come along and correct me.

I wish I could afford your I7 computer.

OP: Welcome to the Cult of Apple, and have fun.

PatM · Jul 6, 2011

purple said:
1. Rumor is that Mac OS began with BSD. I have never looked under the hood of either BSD or OS X, so I can not say. I can guess that OS X has diverged a lot from BSD or its Unix source over the years. Most of my use of OS X is point and click, just like my use of Windows.

There is a rumor that Intuit programs will not work under Lion, the next Apple OS. Not sure whether Quicken would continue to work under the Windows side either.

I am perplexed as to why you bought an Apple if you only intend to use the Windows side under Parallels. From a security standpoint, I would think Windows (and its programs) under a VM is still Windows and prone to Windows problems.

I guess you are aware that you can use Boot Camp and have Windows on its own separate partition like the Apple is a Windows PC.

I find the Apple OS X to be intuitive and easy to use, well with a few exceptions. I think the interface for the Disc Utility is not very good. I am not thrilled with how some of Itunes works, but it is not worse than Windows Media Player with similar issues. Itunes being used to also market to me, protect DMA, and now interface with Ipod, Ipad. Itunes does not do some things easily, or not at all.

Other than the problems I created, my late year 2009 Mac Book Pro has worked quite well. The hardware has been rock solid, except for the time I poured half a glass of diet coke into it. The biggest issues I have had with software has been to use Onyx (donation ware) to fix file permissions. One can fix file permissions from the DVD which originally came with your computer. Like someone has a tagline here says, "Hold onto those install Discs like grim death."

I have heard some of the current Mac Book Pro models have a crash issue which can be duplicated and is not fixable. Apple Care replaces such notebooks without question.

In practice, I do not think I have heard of anyone here who had malware. I have heard of hacks in theory. Until recently, the safety of Mac OS X has been because it is not a target of the malware hackers. I think that is ending, as the OS X market share is increasing, and I am guessing the thieves will realize that on average, Apple owners spend more money on ech computer, and are a juicy target.

Within a few days Apple will release Lion, which has more security features, and allows for some cool VM things as well. Exactly if running OS X under OS X and then Windows software will allow for better security I can not guess.

In short, in practice, for any malware to infect an Apple, the use must type in the login Password.

Yes, a few months ago there was a hack that involved using a browsers already set permission to allow it to install software one might hit on a web page. Not sure, but I think the later versions of Snow Leopard fixed that one. Also there was one where some had been tricked into installing an alternative to a well known Apple program, which some installed thinking it was a well known trustworthy Apple program. There is this constant ongoing issues with Flash, I suspect Java will sometimes have security issues, and then there is Java Script. Lion is to have with a Sandbox type program.

There is a free AV: Clam AV. A resident scanner is a pay item, like Intego.

I really like Apple Care. For the duration one buys it for, and I bought three years, you get hardware repair on the computer for failures. Apple Care does not cover using the battery up (Meaning battery cycles, if it just quits, that is another matter), or physical damage to ones computer, like dropping it or driving over in a car, and pouring diet coke onto it.

In case you do spill liquid into your computer, Immediately: turn it so no more liquid will get through keyboard, while turning it off. Do Not Turn computer Back On. Wait several days before turning it on. Maybe call Apple Care, or come here for advice. Two Whisper fans are blowing air out of the back of the computer, which pulled through the space around the keys, so as to cool off the most expensive part of the Notebook.

Apple Care has a really neat option you might not know about yet. It allows you to go to the Genius Bar with hardware issues or OS issues. That takes an appointment at an Apple Store. You can call Apple Care at any time with questions. One will get someone who speaks English as a first language, not someone from India or Pakistan. The person will be well trained, polite, knowledgeable and will really try to help you with Apple Software problems or how to get some part of the hardware working.

I am not sure if I trust Time Machine, the Mac OS back up software. One never knows if a back up program works until one tries to restore something, and some part of it does not come back.

If I said anything incorrect here, I hope someone will come along and correct me.

I wish I could afford your I7 computer.

OP: Welcome to the Cult of Apple, and have fun.

I'm not sure what BSD is??

You misunderstand, I use the Windows partition only to access the company computer at work rather than using 2 computers. Everything else I use the Mac for. Microsoft Office, all personal photos, financials, email, movies, Garageband etc. I like Parallels because I do not have to reboot the computer which makes for fast access to our corporate computer system. Rebooting to get to the windows partition (Only to access the company computer.) would be counterproductive.

Ouch that had to be painful. But I hear you saying good things about the hardware. That's positive, thanks.

I think with Leopard you can fix the file permissions from within the operating system under disc utilities.

So far I have not experienced the crash issue and hope I don't. Thanks for the heads up.

I tried Clam Xav and had a bad experience. It knocked out my volume and screen controls via the F keys. I could not fix it but had to revert to a Super Duper clone. Which worked perfectly. From that point I decided to keep the system as virgin and clear as possible. Hoping to get many years (Like 5) without ever doing a system re-install. That is my goal. Thus my questions.

I bought Apple care today. I hope I don't have to use it. I view it as insurance. Ya just got to have it. Darn computers are expensive.

I have tested Time Machine several times. Deleting files that were test files and then restoring them. Worked like a charm. I have photos and video that I cannot replace thus another reason for my questions. I think I have a solid backup program. I use a 1 TB hard drive that has 2 partitions. One holds my Super Duper Clone and the has the time machine backup on it I also have another drive that I am using for the sandbox. I screwed up earlier by installing Clam Xva on my main system before testing it on the Sandbox. That won't happen again. I learned my lesson, almost the hard way. My intention is to rotate the Super Duper Clone to another drive every quarter and just put it in my safe. Eventually I will have 4 drives in rotation into the safe. Hard drives are getting pretty inexpensive.

Thanks for replying and giving me some insight. What I took away from your comments is that the system is pretty rock solid and not prone to failures. (Unless self induced.)

I put this purchase in the budget and saved until I could buy it outright. I don't like to finance and pay the interest devil.

Thanks again for the input. I appreciate it.

Pat

chas_m · Jul 7, 2011

Sorry about the previous poster's answer.

PatM said:
1. I just want to understand the Mac operating system. By that I just mean is it Unix or some variation of Unix or some other language? (Pretty simple question I think I'm just curious).

Mac OS X is based on BSD (Berkeley System Distribution) UNIX. On top of that core layer of technology, Apple added a graphical interface inspired by both the older Mac operating systems and the NeXT operating system, which was also UNIX-based.

So think of OS X as a cake with frosting. The cake is UNIX, the frosting is all the other technologies built to work seamlessly with it. From my perspective, Apple (and NeXT before them) have done more to improve UNIX in the 15 years than was done in the 25 years prior.

It's also amusing to note that Apple apparently felt it was easier to make UNIX into a consumer-ready OS than it was to fix the problems with Windows!

If I keep my nose clean and don't do something stupid is it possible to get the type of performance from this Mac as our company system produces year in and year out? (In 20 years of Windows computing I have never been infected with Spyware, a virus etc. I try to be very very careful.)

Is it a possible to do that? And as a side note are there any users out there that have experienced this type of performance with a Mac Operating system?

Click to expand...

Basically, the answer is yes. Like with UNIX, any computer system will require a modest amount of maintenance. But as you say, avoiding betas or illegal software, doing regular backups and the occasional simple bits of maintenance should INDEED give you a system that, barring mechanical failure, will be as reliable and well-performing as the systems you are familiar with at work. Consumer systems need to be replaced more often than industrial systems, of course, but in terms of performance my 2007 MacBook runs *better* now than it did when I bought it -- entirely due to some mechanical upgrades (more RAM, faster hard drive), keeping the OS up-to-date and doing regular maintenance every couple of months or thereabouts. Backups haven't been needed so far but are just a sensible thing to do.

Pardon me for the long winded discourse.

Regards,

Pat

chas_m · Jul 7, 2011

Sorry about the previous poster's answer.

PatM said:
1. I just want to understand the Mac operating system. By that I just mean is it Unix or some variation of Unix or some other language? (Pretty simple question I think I'm just curious).

Mac OS X is based on BSD (Berkeley System Distribution) UNIX. On top of that core layer of technology, Apple added a graphical interface inspired by both the older Mac operating systems and the NeXT operating system, which was also UNIX-based.

So think of OS X as a cake with frosting. The cake is UNIX, the frosting is all the other technologies built to work seamlessly with it. From my perspective, Apple (and NeXT before them) have done more to improve UNIX in the 15 years than was done in the 25 years prior.

It's also amusing to note that Apple apparently felt it was easier to make UNIX into a consumer-ready OS than it was to fix the problems with Windows!

If I keep my nose clean and don't do something stupid is it possible to get the type of performance from this Mac as our company system produces year in and year out? (In 20 years of Windows computing I have never been infected with Spyware, a virus etc. I try to be very very careful.)

Is it a possible to do that? And as a side note are there any users out there that have experienced this type of performance with a Mac Operating system?

Basically, the answer is yes. Like with UNIX, any computer system will require a modest amount of maintenance. But as you say, avoiding betas or illegal software, doing regular backups and the occasional simple bits of maintenance should INDEED give you a system that, barring mechanical failure, will be as reliable and well-performing as the systems you are familiar with at work. Consumer systems need to be replaced more often than industrial systems, of course, but in terms of performance my 2007 MacBook runs *better* now than it did when I bought it -- entirely due to some mechanical upgrades (more RAM, faster hard drive), keeping the OS up-to-date and doing regular maintenance every couple of months or thereabouts. Backups haven't been needed so far but are just a sensible thing to do.

Deckyon · Jul 7, 2011

1. Yes, it is based on UNIX. I really liked that the Terminal was available and felt at home with the command line. It was as if I never left my first job (we had SGI IRIX and SCO UNIX and our play server was FreeBSD).

2. You will notice some differences between the servers, which are not used as a primary machine by someone, and your Mac. First of all, servers are only accessed, they are not generally used as primary machines with lots of desktop apps installed on them and used on a daily basis. Second, servers only provide services like login authentication, email, file/print and what not. The apps installed on servers are not directly accessed or changed by users. Even Windows servers (latest OS) have a small failure point. Ours have maintained a 99.7% uptime over the course of the year. Personal systems, desktops, laptops are all used and changed daily, opening up room for error. When things get used and changed daily, there will be a possibility for failure or slowdown.

OP, you sound like me when it comes to watching for viruses. I only run my BootCamp Win7 image with the built-in Win7 protections, nothing extra. Heck, my old laptop was Win7 and I didnt run anything special on it either (and I hate software firewalls, so I have never enabled the Windows one.) Keep up with the same vigilance and you will not have any issues.

As to having a virtual machine, I use one both at work and home with a standard Win XP, SP3 image that is set to non-persistent so it doesn't save session changes. there are times where we have to do some checks that would (and do) bring systems crashing down. Virus research and whatnot. A quick reboot removes the issue and the system is back to the starting point.

EvenStranger · Jul 7, 2011

With regards to question 2, I manage our organization's Macs, and from a quick "uptime" command sent out to the units currently online, I found reports of computers up for 30+ days. Bear in mind, we push monthly updates, which often require reboots, so these systems have been running continuously since the last round of updates/reboots. Since they're workstations, most folks will just shut them down when they leave, but this shows it's not really necessary to do so.

Deckyon · Jul 7, 2011

True, all I do with my MBP is close the lid (putting it to sleep) rather than shutting down. I will reboot into Win7 a couple times a week but that is it. It takes less than 1 minute to swap between the OS's.

PatM · Jul 7, 2011

chas_m, Deckyon, EvenStranger excellent responses. That is what I was hoping for.

Thus far I am pleased with the system and "feel" that it will be a good switch. The start up and shut down times are very, very quick compared to a windows system. Even a fresh windows system.

I think I am going to rather like the Mac way do doing things. Thanks for the education on BSD. I had no idea. I feel a little smarter now.

Thanks again everyone!

Regards,

Pat

Assuming The Best Case With Careful Attention

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