Switch Master Drive with Slave Drive

This post is in addition to my post named "My experience adding a 2nd interal HD. I have both OS9 and OSX. My Master Drive is running out of space and I don't even have space left to upgrade any System functions let alone install any programs. The reason for the 2nd HD was purely to gain some space. Could I run my computer from the Slave Drive and ignore the Master Drive? Would I keep losing the little space left on the Master Drive when I keep updating the System? If yes, please tell me how I can make my new 2nd Slave Drive as my Master Drive.

This .pdf file might help you. Setting up your Power Mac G4 - Includes setup and expansion information. "Adding an internal hard drive" info is on page 27, and goes on more specifaclly on page 38 and later.

Hope this helps. :girl:

MacHeadCase said:

This .pdf file might help you. Setting up your Power Mac G4 - Includes setup and expansion information. "Adding an internal hard drive" info is on page 27, and goes on more specifaclly on page 38 and later.

Hope this helps. :girl:

Click to expand...

Forgive me, but I did not find anything there to help me. I had read that info. before I posted the question about how to switch master and slave drives. Am I understanding it correctly that the manual says I cannot change the Master Drive (which has been stripped of everything I could get rid of)? What's left on Master is my two Systems and a bare minimum of applications. My understanding is that I cannot switch the jumpers to use the Slave as the Master.
Can I install OS 9 and OSX on the Slave Drive also while I still have them on the Master? Then, erase them from the Master? And, use the Slave as the main bootable drive?

johntalin said:

Can I install OS 9 and OSX on the Slave Drive also while I still have them on the Master? Then, erase them from the Master? And, use the Slave as the main bootable drive?

Click to expand...

On the hardware side:
To do this just pull both drives out. Install what is now your slave in the position the Master is currently in. You are now free to install the OS onto this drive and have not done anything to the original Master. After installation of the OS, go back in the case and install the original Master in the slave position and have access to your old files.

On the software side:
Am new to the Mac world and as of yet have never installed a Mac OS. I do not know if installing the OS will erase all the existing data on the "new" Master drive or not. Perhaps others can answer this question.

I did find a couple of helpful items in just a couple of minutes googling
One
Two

Although, on a quick search, the info I found was installing or transferring data to a "New" drive not one with existing data that needed to be preserved.

And as a note to self, remember to keep in mind you have no options to adjust settings of the motherboard with Apple when building your new system later this year.

Thanks bobtomay. I appreciate all your suggestions.
My G4 Sawtooth does not allow me to switch Master with Slave HD via switching jumpers. The manual says that the Master which came with the computer always has to be the Master HD. So, I was trying to figure out how to work around it while leaving the Master alone.
May be I am expecting too much from my old Mac. But, the link below is claiming that you can install OSX on the Slave Drive and run it from there while you can run your OS9 from the smaller Master Drive. It would be really good, except that I don't have the courage to test it.

http://www.macworld.com/forums/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=5361&an=0&page=464

Yes, a Clean Install will erase everything on your HD. In that case, you will need to do a back up first. In my case though, I don't have any data on the Slave Drive right now. I have just installed it a few days ago and I decided to post a question about it before I get myself in trouble.
There is a way to install OSX and save the old data by doing Archive and Install.
After all, in my case, may be the best thing will be to grin and bear it and get to work. I will need to build my HD from scratch, which I was trying to avoid. Thanks.

Only 1.4GB left on my Master HD

I am where I started, with a little space left on my Master HD (1.4 GB).
I want to make my new and larger capacity HD as my Master and only HD. But, I don't know how, because I could not make it work. I have been reading and trying for a long time. Please someone explain how I can make the new HD as my Master HD? Is this possible on a G4 AGP?

My trial and error I explain below guided me into a full circle, only to end up with the same situation.

The main reason for starting this thread was to work around the limitations of G4 AGP regarding Master HD vs. Slave HD. I read many articles, posts, Web sites and the Mac Manual before I started this thread. It was my disbelief that I would be stuck with the limited capacity of my original Master HD (1.4 GB left) that came with my computer, and I am still in a disbelief that I am stuck with only 1.4 GB left on it after I stripped it down to only two Systems (OS9 and OSX). Please, someone tell me that there is a way. Otherwise, as I continue to upgrade the Systems, I will be running out of more space. May be I am expecting too much from my old Mac, but this can't be it. My Mac sucks right now.

The following did not solve my problem, but it may help someone else:
I have taken a long detour. Meantime, I will appreciate any help I can get to resolve my issue.
I used the Carbon Copy Cloner to clone my Master HD onto the Slave HD. I had downloaded the Carbon Copy Cloner a while back for backing up purposes. But, I was not sure that I could have four Systems on one computer (OS9 on each and OSX on each HDs) without conflict. Turns out that it is OK to have four Systems.

Since my G4 does not allow to switch jumper pins between two internal HDs, I thought I could work around it. I decided to take out the original Master HD1 and install only the Slave HD2 as the Master Drive and the only HD. So, I changed the jumper pin into number one position on the new HD2 to designate it as the Master HD1 (per the instructions that came with the new HD). This would make my new HD the Master drive with the Cloned copy of my Systems. It would be perfect if it worked.
When I started my computer, the usual clicks, Cap Key green, monitor light green, etc. but, dead silence. At this point, I was able to shot down power from the keyboard.
Since HD2 would not boot up, I connected the HD2 again in the Slave position and HD1 as the Master. Everything was the same, nothing lost, nothing gained. I did Disk Utilities, Verify Disk, etc. just to make sure. All was OK. System Preferences was showing four Systems again as it should be.

I booted my computer by selecting the Startup Disk as being OSX H2 to use it as the main boot drive. Even thought the initial clicks were in order, the Cap Key green light was on and my monitor green light came on, etc., then dead silence again. I don't know if Selecting the "Target Mode" from the Startup Disk panel would have helped, but I did not try. I tried Tiger disk to start, but Tiger spitted out as usual (my eternal problem with my Tiger disk). At this point, I was not able to shut down or restart my computer from the key board or any other way. I said this can't be good. I turned off the power.
I unplugged the power connection only from the HD2 Slave and restarted my computer from HD1. HD1 seemed OK until I ran the Disk Utilities, Verify Disk. As expected, Disk Utility Failed, Incorrect number of Extended Attributes, Error: The underlying task reported failure on exit, 1 HFS volume checked, Volume needs repair. But, "Repair Disk" button is not available in the Utility panel. "Repair Disk Permissions" OK. I don't know if Tiger disk could do any better, but it does not work anyway.
I connected the HD2 again in Slave position. Disk Utilities showed all OK for the HD2. Repair Disk was available for HD2, but it did not need any repair.

So, once more, I am back to where I was before I posted the thread, except that I have learnt a few things.
Please, someone help me!

Just a note: I don't think it makes any difference what position your HDs are as long as you connect the parallel cable in the right order. The new parallel cable which came with the new HD did not allow me to install the Slave in the top position without twisting the parallel cable a couple of times. I thought, this can't be good, so I decided to install the Master (and the original HD) in the top position and hooked up the new HD in the bottom as Slave. Ran the Utilities and all was OK. Also, it did not matter in what order I connected the power cable to each HD (P2 vs. P3).

A note about Carbon Copy Cloner: It works fine to clone files for back up purposes, only if you are cloning files or your System onto a second internal HD. It did not work for backing up files onto an external HD. During this trial, I have found out the Disk Utility "Restore" works the same way to back up files. or to restore them to their saved version.

Give SuperDuper! a try.

Edited to add:

Although I don't think you can use it for simply backing up files. Like CCC, it's for cloning an internal hard drive and copy it to an external. Sorry, I really don't know at this point what you could do, other than getting a big whopping internal hard drive to replace the one that is nearly full and using the one that you would replace in a case for external use.

MacHeadCase said:

Give SuperDuper! a try.

Click to expand...

This is a great suggestion. Carbon Copy Cloner worked fine, also.
You are my only chance at this point MacHeadCase. Have you had a chance to read about my hopeless tries to set up my new HD?

Well I googled and I wonder if you saw these two threads at macosxhints?

Please help! I'm in internal hard drive h*ll!

and Can I install a second CDR/RW in a G4 AGP 400?


Edited to add:

Maybe this is a better link, Adding a 2nd IDE hard drive to B&W G3 rev 2 - Quicksilver G4 Towers:

Note:
This guide was written in 2000, but is still valid for Towers up to the Quicksilver 2002 model. The 2003 Mirror Drive Door and G5 Towers have a different case design. See your owner's manual for info on hard drive mounting in those systems. The FAQ's Apple G4 and G5 systems areas also links to Apple's online CIP (Customer Installable Parts) guides for those models.

Click to expand...

MacHeadCase said:

Give SuperDuper! a try.

Edited to add:

Although I don't think you can use it for simply backing up files. Like CCC, it's for cloning an internal hard drive and copy it to an external. Sorry, I really don't know at this point what you could do, other than getting a big whopping internal hard drive to replace the one that is nearly full and using the one that you would replace in a case for external use.

Click to expand...

I have a 250GB HD installed right now as the Slave HD2 Drive. I am trying to make that my Master HD. The #6 explains that I could not do it. Would you know how I can make the 250GB (128GB max.) Slave HD my Master HD. In a nut shell, I took out the main Master HD that came with my computer and installed the new 250GB as the Master. I put the jumper pin in the Number 1 position and I could not boot my computer from the new drive. What are my choices?

I saw a thread where they say that the maximum size the Sawtooth can deal with is 80GB.

ref.: Problems installing 2nd hard drive.

Could this be the cause?

If so, you would need to partition it.

MacHeadCase said:

Well I googled and I wonder if you saw these two threads at macosxhints?

Please help! I'm in internal hard drive h*ll!

The Cable Select Mode suggested in the first link would not work with G4 AGP per my Mac Manual.

and Can I install a second CDR/RW in a G4 AGP 400?


Edited to add:

Maybe this is a better link, Adding a 2nd IDE hard drive to B&W G3 rev 2 - Quicksilver G4 Towers:

Click to expand...

Also, the original Master Drive has to remain as the Master HD as per Mac Manual. My Disk Utility recognizes my Slave Drive also, because I have my both Systems installed on both HDs. So, their situation is different than mine.

Could you explain this link about the jumper pins:
May be I am doing mine wrong. Mine is the number 5&6 position for the Master HD and number 3&4 position for the Slave HD. End of the cable is connected to Master HD and the middle to the Slave HD. It would not work any other way per Mac manual.
http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc...GV4dD1qdW1wZXIgc2V0dGluZ3M*&p_li=&p_topview=1

MacHeadCase said:

I saw a thread where they say that the maximum size the Sawtooth can deal with is 80GB.

ref.: Problems installing 2nd hard drive.

Could this be the cause?

If so, you would need to partition it.

Click to expand...

My computer can see 128GB, which is OK. I partitioned it as One Partition with the same space, which is OK. When both HDs are installed and connected, everything is fine except that I cannot prevent the Original Master HD from losing more space when upgrading the Systems. So, the answer would be to make the new 250GB Drive as my Master HD.
Sorry, if I am being redundant, because I am answering some of the posts between your responses.

Wow! They sure do know how to make things complicated...

Ok about my suggestion you partition the big hard drive... From the webpage I linked you to, Adding a 2nd IDE hard drive to B&W G3 rev 2 - Quicksilver G4 Towers, this paragraph just blasted that idea of mine clear out of he water:

About "Big Drive" (>137GB) Support:
As mentioned in the site FAQ (IDE hard drive section) and drive db reports, only the 2002 Quicksilver and later Macs have native "Big Drive" (aka 48Bit addressing) support (when formatted with OS X 10.2.x or later's Disk Utility).
If you put a large (160GB, 200GB, 250GB, etc.) IDE drive in a 2001 QS, Digital Audio, Gigabit, Sawtooth, B&W G3, Yikes G4/PCI, Beige G3, etc. using the onboard IDE the drive will be limited to appx. 128GB formatted capacity, regardless of the number of partitions. Options to add large drive support for older Macs is noted in the FAQ. (Like a Mac PCI IDE card w/big drive support, Intechusa.com's drivers, or a Firewire case with a bridge board that has big drive support.)

Click to expand...

As for the illustration you posted a link to, I know for having read it in one of the threads I linked you to that you have to dismiss the Cable Select configuration as your Power Mac will not support it. And did you try comparing this illustration to the photo in Step 4 on page 2 of the article I linked you to?

Sorry for being such a nitwit and for being such poor help, I've never done this before.

Seems to me this is what you should have somehow as configuration depending on the number of pins...

MacHeadCase said:

Wow! They sure do know how to make things complicated...

Ok about my suggestion you partition the big hard drive... From the webpage I linked you to, Adding a 2nd IDE hard drive to B&W G3 rev 2 - Quicksilver G4 Towers, this paragraph just blasted that idea of mine clear out of he water:



As for the illustration you posted a link to, I know for having read it in one of the threads I linked you to that you have to dismiss the Cable Select configuration as your Power Mac will not support it. And did you try comparing this illustration to the photo in Step 4 on page 2 of the article I linked you to?

Sorry for being such a nitwit and for being such poor help, I've never done this before.

Click to expand...

I truly appreciate you help however big or small. I did read all that and limitation does not seem to be any problem other than that you are limited to 128GB. I don't have any problem with that at all. Step 4 on page 2 pertains to IBM models, but respectively I believe that far left position for Master HD and the second position (3&4) is for the Slave HD on my computer.
I could not open the tumbnail attachment you posted in the next response: Invalid...

Should be good to go now, I changed the attachment and guess you tried to grab it while I was making the switch. Sorry.

I'm sure there are good hardware techies on this forum. Looks like they're all out at the moment... With good help your problem would be solved by now, John...

MacHeadCase said:

Seems to me this is what you should have somehow as configuration depending on the number of pins...

Click to expand...

I agree. It is 5&6 for Master HD and 3&4 is the Slave HD in six pin drives. Meaning, far left position for Master. All is well that way, but the problem remains for the Master HD losing space.
I am going to try something else now and hopefully the new 250GB HD will work as the only Master HD. I will post it when I am done, good or bad results.
I will have to shut down my computer again, or should I say SHOT DOWN my computer. Just kidding! I still like my computer.
Thanks a million for all the help.
I don't know how long this will take.
Bye for now.

Ok well in the meantime someone who knows his/her way around this hardware business might show up.

BTW, I searched the WD knowledge base and came up with this list: jumper settings mac os x.