Apple TV challenge from Google falls flat in 2010

Apple TV challenge from Google falls flat in 2010
AppleInsider | Apple TV challenge from Google falls flat in 2010

Logitech has reportedly halted shipments of its Revue Google TV boxes through January while waiting for Google to update its software on the poorly selling units.

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HAHA i love my Apple TV and ATM does everything i need...... Will teach Google to go down the Live TV route

Just more evidence that Google is becoming more like MS everyday. They want to be all things to all people instead of simply picking a target and doing it well.

TattooedMac said:

HAHA i love my Apple TV and ATM does everything i need...... Will teach Google to go down the Live TV route

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Totally agree. Actually the only thing missing for my on ATV at the moment would be Hulu.

baggss said:

Just more evidence that Google is becoming more like MS everyday. They want to be all things to all people instead of simply picking a target and doing it well.

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Well I think that Google would have a better chance than MS at doing many different things.

The main issue however is that Google continues to try and do things that require it to actually design a good UI and end user experience, neither of which are in any way a strong suit for them. They either need to invest and hire some really good UI designers, or just give up on that stuff.

Google has awesome developers and analysts, but horrible designers.

schweb said:

Actually the only thing missing for my on ATV at the moment would be Hulu.

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And things like Hulu, Netflix im just so waiting for .......

You would think in this day and age that *licences* and the availability of the content would be here for all too use ....... And trying to hide my ip is just too watch the content is to much time and trouble and not worth it

TattooedMac said:

You would think in this day and age that *licences* and the availability of the content would be here for all too use.......

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I agree. I just wonder on which side of the aisle the licensing issues come on on. I can see Apple not wanting to license Net-flicks since it would compete directly with iTunes. I'm not sure how the 2 differ in price since I use neither...

baggss said:

I agree. I just wonder on which side of the aisle the licensing issues come on on. I can see Apple not wanting to license Net-flicks since it would compete directly with iTunes. I'm not sure how the 2 differ in price since I use neither...

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Netflix is already on the ATV.

I think he's referring to Netflix coming to Australia.

schweb said:

Netflix is already on the ATV.

I think he's referring to Netflix coming to Australia.

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Ah. Gotcha. See, I didn't even know it was there and I have one...

Jobs took a shot at Google's recently unveiled TV ambitions, saying "Ask Tivo, ask Replay TV, ask Roku, ask Vudu, ask us… ask Google in a few months

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I think Steve is talking a bit out of his rear. There are tons of people out there subscribed to Hulu Plus and Netflix via Roku. They do very well, in fact. I was actually thinking about going the Roku route myself, as it makes more logical sense than going for an Apple TV box for a few reasons:

Personally, I don't see the point of paying for iTunes content. Seems a bit like a scam to me. 99c for TV shows which you don't even get to keep? Same for movies, but at a higher price ?At the very least they could offer a subscription based fee service much like Hulu/Netflix or Amazon Video on Demand.

With Amazon, you actually "own" said titles, so they never expire. Seems like a huge advantage for the consumer. They even offer a lot of free material.

I'm just not sure I see the advantage in going the Apple TV route, other than for people whom already own a lot of iTunes material and simply would rather not commit to an whole other service. Seems a bit like entrapment to me.

And of course the whole Apple integration thing. Yeah, that kind of appeals to me, but since I own ZERO iTunes content, there's no real incentive for me. Maybe if Hulu Plus were available, or just more options in general. Roku seem to have a really nice package deal with a lot of streaming options. Just makes more sense for someone not committed to anything.

Doug

schweb said:

I think he's referring to Netflix coming to Australia.

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Exactly . . . . . NetFlix, Hulu we cant even register with unless we have a US based address . . . . .
There is ways around it with VCN i think Hiding or tricking the site into thinking im in the US, but as i posted above its not worth the time and hassle ATM

Doug b said:

I'm just not sure I see the advantage in going the Apple TV route, other than for people whom already own a lot of iTunes material and simply would rather not commit to an whole other service. Seems a bit like entrapment to me.

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You seen to think that owning an ATV means you are a slave to Apple and iTunes purchased content. 800+ Movies and 4000+ TV Shows I can stream to my ATV2 and maybe 20 of them have been purchased from iTunes...maybe....

No entrapment there, and I control the quality of the media that I watch, not someone else...

Doug b said:

And of course the whole Apple integration thing. Yeah, that kind of appeals to me, but since I own ZERO iTunes content, there's no real incentive for me. Maybe if Hulu Plus were available, or just more options in general. Roku seem to have a really nice package deal with a lot of streaming options. Just makes more sense for someone not committed to anything.

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Why should I pay someone for a subscription when I can control what I have available as I go? The "whole Apple Integration thing" is exactly why I have an ATV. Lots of media to watch, an ever expanding list of media available for a price I pay when I want, not a monthly fee, and it all "just works". No downside there.

All that being said, I DO like being in control of my content and it's quality, not relying on someone else to do it for me. I understand that's not for everyone though.

baggss said:

You seen to think that owning an ATV means you are a slave to Apple and iTunes purchased content. 800+ Movies and 4000+ TV Shows I can stream to my ATV2 and maybe 20 of them have been purchased from iTunes...maybe....

No entrapment there, and I control the quality of the media that I watch, not someone else...



Why should I pay someone for a subscription when I can control what I have available as I go? The "whole Apple Integration thing" is exactly why I have an ATV. Lots of media to watch, an ever expanding list of media available for a price I pay when I want, not a monthly fee, and it all "just works". No downside there.

All that being said, I DO like being in control of my content and it's quality, not relying on someone else to do it for me. I understand that's not for everyone though.

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But I think we're talking about two different things here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but other than the "rental" fees for movies and shows, the content you're talking about is stuff you "already" own that you've got on an external HD, plugged into the ATV, correct ?

If so, there's still zero advantage in owning the ATV vs the Roku player since it also has an USB port with which one can utilize their private collection of media and such. The advantages I was talking about applied directly to the comparison between the streaming subscription services as such... But you knew that, so I'm still left wondering why you would choose the ATV over something like Roku, especially seeing as how you don't do the iTunes thing.

Or did I miss something? Those 4000 tv shows and 800+ movies... Where did you acquire them or.. where are they streaming from? You should have said this without me having to ask, since it makes your statement a bit cryptic and all.

Doug

Doug b said:

But I think we're talking about two different things here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but other than the "rental" fees for movies and shows, the content you're talking about is stuff you "already" own that you've got on an external HD, plugged into the ATV, correct ?

If so, there's still zero advantage in owning the ATV vs the Roku player since it also has an USB port with which one can utilize their private collection of media and such. The advantages I was talking about applied directly to the comparison between the streaming subscription services as such... But you knew that, so I'm still left wondering why you would choose the ATV over something like Roku, especially seeing as how you don't do the iTunes thing.

Or did I miss something? Those 4000 tv shows and 800+ movies... Where did you acquire them or.. where are they streaming from? You should have said this without me having to ask, since it makes your statement a bit cryptic and all.

Doug

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They are on drives connected to my desktop Mac (9 0f them to be exact, 4 internal SATA II, 5 external FW 400), although I have about 25 digital movies on my MacBook as well. I utilize iTunes to manage and organize my library (although not in Auto mode) and stream them directly from my computer/iTunes to the ATV. Yes, you missed something.

Your comparison may have been intended to be about rental services but it came across as a hit on the ATV and having to be "locked" into Apples system(s) and the preference to not do so. In many cases, people aren't locked into anything by owning one, your assumption is that everyone with an ATV utilizes a subscription or rental service. Many of us don't.

Where did I get them from? Frankly, talking about that would be a violation of forum policy, hence my "cryptic" reply. I have no desire for another "Warning" from the staff. As I said, I control the quality of my content. PM me and I'll explain more if you like.

baggss said:

They are on drives connected to my desktop Mac (9 0f them to be exact, 4 internal SATA II, 5 external FW 400), although I have about 25 digital movies on my MacBook as well. I utilize iTunes to manage and organize my library (although not in Auto mode) and stream them directly from my computer/iTunes to the ATV. Yes, you missed something.

Your comparison may have been intended to be about rental services but it came across as a hit on the ATV and having to be "locked" into Apples system(s) and the preference to not do so. In many cases, people aren't locked into anything by owning one, your assumption is that everyone with an ATV utilizes a subscription or rental service. Many of us don't.

Where did I get them from? Frankly, talking about that would be a violation of forum policy, hence my "cryptic" reply. I have no desire for another "Warning" from the staff. As I said, I control the quality of my content. PM me and I'll explain more if you like.

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No, it's cool I got'cha. And so really, I didn't "miss anything", because that's what I was alluding to originally:

me said:

the content you're talking about is stuff you "already" own that you've got on an external HD, plugged into the ATV, correct ?

If so, there's still zero advantage in owning the ATV vs the Roku player since it also has an USB port with which one can utilize their private collection of media and such

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More or less in a nutshell, because I'm pretty sure that most if not all streaming hardware boxes utilize an USB port (which you can also hook up an USB hub to for more external drives or an Mac etc).

The only difference being the software interface after all that, and that's not much of a selling point when compared to having more streaming options. Again, if ATV offered Hulu Plus, it would be more enticing (to me at least), and if the rental fees were more along the lines of ownership fees (such as with Amazon Video on Demand) then it would be a no brainer since I'm a lot more comfortable with Apple in terms of quality assurance and customer service. Not to say that the Roku devices suffer from quality control issues, but you know where I'm coming from. It's hard to beat Apple when it comes to knowing you'll be taken care of should any problems arise.

That is however, one thing I will compromise on in order to get the content I want, and how I want it *setting aside the stuff we already own.

Doug

I opted for the Roku. Got the XD version just a couple of weeks ago. This one is HD via HDMI. The player overall, have to give it 4 stars for what it does. It does have a ton of channels you're not going to get on the ATV. Went with this one just to experiment as I got it for <$60.

With the Roku, only the top end version of the player has the USB port which is "suppose" to support streaming from an external drive. Although, they keep pushing back the firmware to do this - now slated for January. Looks like we're waiting to see whether the ATV gets hulu first or the Roku gets the ability to play your existing content first.

It will only support .mp4 and .m4v with h.264 - same as iTunes (iTunes also supports .mov). Only with the Roku, your drive will have to be directly connected to the unit. It does not support streaming the content that sits on your computer or anywhere else on the network. This means moving the drive around - to the computer when you want to add more content and back to the Roku when you want to watch the content on your TV. That's gonna be a pitr compared to just turning on the device and playing your media from wherever it sits on your network as the ATV will.

And I hope all your content sits on a single drive with the Roku. Oh the pain it's going to be if you have multiple drives, and now you'll have to figure out which drive that movie sits on before you move it to the Roku instead of just streaming it. Have fun with that.

I also purchase a fair amount of content from both Amazon VOD and iTunes. Have to say doug you are way off base thinking Amazon has some big advantage over iTunes.

Amazon - can be used on up to two (2) computers
iTunes - can be used on up to five (5) computers

Amazon - your hard drive dies on one of the computers that is authorized - guess what - you're down to one - there is no way to go unauthorize an existing machine without opening up the Amazon app on the machine that was authorized - I already have this situation - haven't a clue what happens when the next hard drive dies - guess I just lose all access to my content via a computer from then on.

Amazon - can put that content onto your iPod/iPhone/iPad - not happening
iTunes - all your purchased content can be put onto these devices

rental vs buying between the two of them - there really is very little difference here - for purchasing, you'll find only random differences between them. For the most part you find the same stuff at the same price - Amazon is typically $1 cheaper on their TV season pricing - at least on the ones I have actually bought.

Amazon has stuff iTunes doesn't have. iTunes has stuff Amazon doesn't have. Amazon has stuff in HD only available in SD on iTunes. iTunes has stuff in HD only available in SD on Amazon. iTunes has stuff for rent not available at all or only for purchase on Amazon and typically they are for sale at the same price as Amazon.

imho - anyone only using one of these two services without comparison shopping on the specific shows you want, is making a big mistake

This is sort of like the Win vs OS X fanboy stuff. They each have their place and I use both Windows and OS X. I also use iTunes and Amazon VOD. I get the best of both worlds without limiting myself.

Oh and btw: For those that haven't seen The Walking Dead - Amazon has the season (only 6 shows) for sale at $4.99 right now in SD - worth the price if you're at all into zombie shows. In HD, it's $2 cheaper than iTunes - So, will you ever want to put it on one of your iDevices or not is the question for that $2 extra.

Oh, and with the Roku - all the channels it has - you have to add them to your channel line-up to access them. Only problem is, it has limited memory and once you have some number of channels (haven't figured out how many yet) and you try to add another one - you get this popup message - basically:

"You have reached the maximum number of channels. You need to remove one in order to add this channel."

Ok, now which one do I want to remove so I can check this one out? Another pitr.


My problem with both of these devices, I don't want to spend the time necessary to re-encode all my video. I have perfectly functioning media files that play and stream across the network just fine without all that extra effort, tyvm.

Interesting observations, and thanks for your input Bob. Question though: Are you absolutely sure that the top of the line Roku (XDS) suffers the same "feature" issues as yours does? Is is not possible that some of the caveats you mentioned are diminished some with the $99 version?

I've a friend who got one just recently and I'm pretty sure he said that he was able to access multiple external drives on his wireless network. I'll have to hit him up with all the issues you mentioned.

Thanks again. All of those things make keeping my MBP hooked up to my tv via HDMI a still worthy plan for now. Problem then is, only one MBP to share for working on and such. That's the kicker. And I'm pretty against paying for cruddy cable tv right now. NF and Hulu have most if not all the content I need.

Doug

Let me know what you find out doug. All I've seen is what Roku has on their site about the hard drive/USB feature and it's been indicating attached drive with firmware now due next month. When I bought this one a couple weeks ago, didn't find a review that mentioned this feature yet.

Now the Roku has teamed up with a site called MP3tunes. This site allows you to stream your iTunes content "to" just about anywhere or any device. Only problem is you have to upload your content to their site in order to stream your content. And the free account is only 2GB. Over that and you're paying to stream the stuff you already own. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I'll have to say that I think the only advantage of the Roku box at the moment is Hulu Plus and the fact that it's 1080p (but that's a minor advantage since most people can't tell the difference between 1080p and 720p anyway, and most steaming video is NOT 1080p except Vudu HDX atm). Amazon VOD to me isn't that great. It's probably the flakiest of the streaming services I've tried as far as picture stability. It's not bad and is usually streams fine, but more often than not, if any of my streaming services are going to have an issue, it's Amazon.

I also have to agree with bob on the pricing and selection differences between Amazon and iTunes. Amazon pricing isn't really better, you don't "own" it necessarily since they also do rental, and overall iTunes and Amazon are pretty similar. Bob really did a nice comparison and contrast above.

But beyond just the streaming stuff, the Apple TV integration with your existing iTunes and other features can't be touched by Roku. Not to mention, most new TVs and Blu Ray players come with all that internet streaming stuff built in now, making Roku's overall model pretty tenuous. Whereas Apple TV gives you access to the iTMS and iTunes content as well as Airplay which isn't built in to any home electronics other than Apple TV.