How useful were computers before internet?

[simonvee]

1. It's important to bear in mind that expectations were quite different then. For example, look at how popular Facebook is for keeping in touch with people.

Facebook and online videos is in my opinion the biggest factor why folks (e.g. senior) with less than amateur computer skills use computers/tablets today.

 

[MacInWin]

Eh, no not really. According to Wikipedia, they didn't start offering an internet portal until 1993. This matches my understanding since this is about when I first started hearing about "the internet" and had long known of online services already, including AOL, though I wasn't a user of any until I joined AOL in 1995. Distilled as best as I can from Wikipedia, they started out in 1985 by the name of Quantum Computer Services as an online service along the lines of CompuServe, but geared towards novice users, and changed their name to America Online in 1989. I was an AOL user myself from 1995 till about 1997 and they self-hosted all their content that you accessed by dialing into their servers, and they provided a web browser that let you get to "the internet". At some point, 1996 or so, they allowed for an option to access their service via an ISP for a reduced rate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AOL

EDIT: I should add that they weren't exactly a pre-cursor to the internet either since the "internet" has been around since, what, the early 70's? But to academics only, until it was opened up to the public in the early 90's.

LIAB, the Internet had been around for a while before Berners-Lee proposed the WWW context in 1989. By 1993 that concept was in place and the first public browser was made available (Mosaic). In Spring of that year the decision was made and announced that WWW was free (you still had to have an ISP to connect, of course) and the thing exploded. The growth of the web was absolutely astounding. What triggered the really explosive growth was the creation of search engines to allow anyone to find anything anywhere. Google is the biggest, of course, but Yahoo hung in there for a long time as a major competitor.

I don't recall AOL before the WWW as a content provider. Perhaps it was, but I seem to recall that Prodigy, CompuServe and GEnie were the big three in that area. AOL may have been a bit player in that space. But AOL came into it's own when the WWW started in 1993. At that point AOL became the major provider of internet access via dial-up, eclipsing the big three. It came down to pricing and marketing--AOL sent out millions of floppy disks (later CD's) with the AOL software for free. You got to try it and then you paid for a subscription. By making it so easy and keeping the price down, AOL created and then met a huge demand. But as I said, once cable got into the provisioning service, AOL couldn't compete. It tried to be a value-add on the Internet, found itself being ignored there because people wanted more speed than dial up and they also just wanted to surf on their own, and started the decline to what it is today.

I never used AOL myself. My ISP at the time was something called, IIRC, CapitolCom. Same idea, but nothing there but a connect point. It was a few $$ less than AOL and got me to the internet.

The irony of it all is that I had a business associate who tried to talk me into investing in a few thousand $ of modems and a connection to the Internet and offering our own service, just before AOL hit. He thought we could drive Prodigy, CompuServe and GEnie out of business by just offering connectivity. Had I been more of a risk taker, I might have done it and become a wealthy man, but the risks seem to outweigh what I saw as the benefits and I averred. Ah, well!

 

[MacInWin]

Facebook and online videos is in my opinion the biggest factor why folks (e.g. senior) with less than amateur computer skills use computers/tablets today.

And email.

 

[MacInWin]

@simonvee, here's something to contemplate. It's been estimated that well over 90% of the computing power in the world (from phones to supercomputers) is not being used. Think about that! Before I retired I worked for IBM and we had an internal program of trying to use that idle time by way of an integrating program that sits in every computer in the network and multiprocesses into those computers whenever the CPU utilization drops below a threshold. So when I dropped my ThinkPad into the network, it connected and reported to the central controller that it was available for the central project. We were donating the time, as I recall, to cancer researchers as part of modeling various potential treatments. The CPU would jump up to about 75% busy even when I wasn't on it. We never saw the results, but the researchers got their time on EVERY machine in the network that participated. From ThinkPads to Supercomputers to Watson, idle time was donated.

There was a public donation project, too, from SETI, to process signals they had recorded for patterns indicating something non-random. I don't know if it's still out there or not, but in today's security-conscious Internet, I seriously doubt it.

 

[MX372]

Not sure about the SETI project, but Stanford still has the folding at home project at https://folding.stanford.edu/.

If the internet did not evolve the way it has, the way we use computers today would be vastly different.

I'm not a big fan of most social media sites, specifically FB and twitter. I think tweeting is stupid, and FB (from what I've seen) only causes more social interaction problems between people. Can it be used as a great communication tool for people many miles apart? Sure. But so can email, Skype, and a plethora of other applications. I just can't stand it that people post so much stupid crap on FB, and then there is the complete disregard for security consideration - people pay for stuff like LifeLock to prevent ID Theft, but then plaster FB (or some other SM site) with a ton of personal info. DUMB.

It's funny that you mention that so much of our computing power is unused, since I also think we have (in general, for the average home user) machines that are more powerful and have more features than people use, YET, people still upgrade to the latest and greatest every (about) 2 years. Cell phones in particular. What a waste.....

 

[Strider64]

I used to run a BBS (Bulletin Board Service) before the Internet and used to visit BBSes via modem (starting out with a 300 baud modem). The first BBS ran on an 8086, 300 baud modem and Wildcat BBS, it was basically used for getting files and sharing files - kind of like an earlier version of Napster. I remember going over to my friends house just to download a 100K file that would take forever to download, we usually ended up playing 9-ball on his pool table. I think my final version of my bbs was running on a 80286, 2 phone lines using 14,400 baud modems and Syncronet BBS software. Ah, the good times.

 

[Lifeisabeach]

LIAB, the Internet had been around for a while before Berners-Lee proposed the WWW context in 1989. By 1993 that concept was in place and the first public browser was made available (Mosaic). In Spring of that year the decision was made and announced that WWW was free (you still had to have an ISP to connect, of course) and the thing exploded.

Yes, that's what I said. The "internet" as a whole (which compromises of many services like usenet, "the web", email, IC, and more) were around well before 1989.

"The origins of the Internet date back to research commissioned by the United States government in the 1960s to build robust, fault-tolerant communication via computer networks. This work, combined with work in the United Kingdom and France, led to the primary precursor network, the ARPANET, in the United States. A 1980 paper refers to "the ARPA internet". The interconnection of regional academic networks in the 1980s marks the beginning of the transition to the modern Internet." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet

As stated previously, it was available only to "academics" (educational institutions, scientists, etc) to more conveniently communicate share research. Now the web was introduced in 1989 as you describe. We all habitually refer to the web as the internet, when it's really just one of the services available on the internet.

I don't recall AOL before the WWW as a content provider. Perhaps it was, but I seem to recall that Prodigy, CompuServe and GEnie were the big three in that area. AOL may have been a bit player in that space. But AOL came into it's own when the WWW started in 1993.

Those were the big 3, but AOL most certainly was around. AOL was the first online service I ever joined, but that wasn't until 1995. Their portal to the web was pretty crude though... a very rough web browser that was slow and barely worked. The real appeal of their service then was their own content and services.

EDIT: I should expand on that thought a bit. AOL's growth certainly exploded in the mid-90's, in part because they offered access to "the internet" as part of their service, and while hordes of people joined up because of the growing buzz over "the internet", they mostly didn't know what that really was. To them, AOL and its own services WAS the internet. I should also point out that if people simply wanted to get to the internet, it would have been FAR cheaper to simply sign up with an ISP, which typically cost $12-$15/month flat rate, IIRC. AOL, on the other hand, billed by the minute and could easily cost you a hundred bucks or more monthly. It wasn't until 1997 or so that they went to a flat rate model.

Here's a better read than the Wikipedia entry (EDIT: this is from TIME Magazine's site):
AOL at 30: The History of America Online, Founded in 1985

 

[Lifeisabeach]

Every now and then a 'general' question that the general public might take for granted will make me curious. I have pondered on this question when I got my 1st computer in 1997 but have not got around to asking it. At the time, how my friends, relatives and myself used a computer was no more than a game machine and glorified typewriter which cost 3+ weeks of average salary. It was a minor troubling thought. Now days, you would not question that since it costs just half a week of work to buy a decent computer that does a tonne of things for your everyday life.

I got my first computer in 1989, largely because I got tired of driving to the computer lab on the college campus to do my coursework (no, not a "computing" degree... accounting). Using one as a word processor certainly was a major use back then, but by no means was it the only one. Take anything you do now... you could do it back then in some form. The fact that you can do more of it "online" now and more conveniently doesn't mean you couldn't do it before. The fact that you and your relatives/friends couldn't find a better use for computers than how they were using them doesn't mean they weren't capable of more. Not in 1989 in my case, and certainly not in 1997.

 

[simonvee]

Take anything you do now... you could do it back then in some form

Sending and receiving files online is of significant improvement. Now days students can download course material online. Back then you had a floppy disk but what significant convenience does it give? If I could drive somewhere to give someone (e.g. lecturer) a floppy disk, I may as well give them the physical document.

Not to mention, now there is 1) interactive online learning amongst students and being able to 2) Google additional information. These two are a major contributor of learning. I majored in accounting myself. All you need is a calculator, lecture notes and textbooks. Unless if you were dealing with MYOB or Quickbooks then yeh, you need a computer.

 

[Lifeisabeach]

Sending and receiving files online is of significant improvement. Now days students can download lecture notes for example, online. Back then you had a floppy disk but what significant convenience does it give? If I could drive somewhere to give someone (e.g. lecturer) a floppy disk, I may as well give them the physical document.

Not to mention, now there is 1) interactive online learning amongst students and being able to 2) Google additional information. These two are a major contributor of learning. I majored in accounting myself.

If you used a BBS, you certainly could send and receive files. When Windows 95 was first released, I had to get a driver update for one of my PC components from a BBS. I didn't have a sub to one myself or even a modem, so I used someone else's computer to get it off CompuServe. Shortly thereafter, I subbed to AOL, and I can absolutely assure you people traded files quite a bit on there and had been for years. Many companies hosted driver updates directly on AOL's servers in their own little section. The internet is simply ubiquitous today. That's all.

 

[simonvee]

I see

I guess the bottom line is to purchase something within the price range that correspond to your personal optimal usage

For me, I could not make the best use out of a computer. Therefore, I should have not bought one. At least for $3,000 anyway.

 

[Lifeisabeach]

I majored in accounting myself. All you need is a calculator, lecture notes and textbooks. Unless if you were dealing with MYOB or Quickbooks then yeh, you need a computer.

I don't know what kind of program you went through, but we had to learn how to use word processing, database, spreadsheet programs, and more, ALL of which were relevant in the late 80's for accounting. One class, I forget which one exactly, but we had to use a program written by the instructor to do analyses on making the most cost effective use of inventory space. Another class, business management, our class was broken up into teams of 4 and assigned a scenario involving a major corporation. We had to do presentations complete with flowcharts and graphs to demonstrate how that company could improve their business practices and revenue flow. And guess how these presentations were created? On a COMPUTER! Oh, this was 1988-1990. And you expect me to believe you weren't required to do any of this in 1997?????

 

[simonvee]

I don't know what kind of program you went through, but we had to learn how to use word processing, database, spreadsheet programs, and more, ALL of which were relevant in the late 80's for accounting. One class, I forget which one exactly, but we had to use a program written by the instructor to do analyses on making the most cost effective use of inventory space. Another class, business management, our class was broken up into teams of 4 and assigned a scenario involving a major corporation. We had to do presentations complete with flowcharts and graphs to demonstrate how that company could improve their business practices and revenue flow. And guess how these presentations were created? On a COMPUTER! Oh, this was 1988-1990. And you expect me to believe you weren't required to do any of this in 1997?????

My accounting studies began in the mid 2000's actually. I had to use Quickbooks within a subject called Accounting (Information Systems). All the small tests were done with the university lab computers to demonstrate that we knew how to do Quickbooks. However, the exam was all paper work. Other than that, a computer was very convenient but not essential for the course of accounting.

When you do flow-charts, you don't actually need a computer. All you need is that projector that projects the image of those clear plastic sheets that you can imprint charts and graphs on. I don't know what it's called, but you understand what I mean.

 

[Lifeisabeach]

My accounting studies began in the mid 2000's actually. I had to use Quickbooks within a subject called Accounting (Information Systems). All the small tests were done with the university lab computers to demonstrate that we knew how to do Quickbooks. However, the exam was all paper work. Other than that, a computer was very convenient but not essential for the course of accounting.

When you do flow-charts, you don't actually need a computer. All you need is that projector that projects the image of those clear plastic sheets that you can imprint charts and graphs on. I don't know what it's called, but you understand what I mean.

That's insane. In the real world, everyone was doing all of this on a computer by the late 80's. You mean to tell me your university wasn't preparing you to use the tools that your employers would expect you to be able to use in the mid-2000's?

 

[Exodist]

Hi,

.

Did anyone else use computers, without internet, for other things I have not mentioned?

I.............

Any thoughts?

Hey Simon,
My first computer that I actually owned myself was a Tandy 1000HX. I did lots of things on this computer. I wrote midi music, painted with drawing program, programmed in BASIC, played games and communicated and downloaded files off BBS server computers. Well I typed and used spreadsheets also.. But I used it just like I use my Mac today. The only thing that has really changed is now I can do video and real music.

 

[simonvee]

That's insane. In the real world, everyone was doing all of this on a computer by the late 80's. You mean to tell me your university wasn't preparing you to use the tools that your employers would expect you to be able to use in the mid-2000's?

I went to a reputable university. University in general teaches core concepts as opposed to REAL WORLD tasks used in the office. Surely, if I was the dean and was to prescribe an accounting course that would keep my graduates competitive against candidates with experience and no education is to implement:

- MYOB
- Quickbooks
- SAP
-Simple Accounting
- Advanced Excel
And many more programming topics

In terms of computers- My course just taught Excel spreadsheets and Quick-Books.

Most of the time learning in the course was from a 400 year old accounting system. Manually writing what were credits and what were debits. Not very useful in the real world. In the real world, we use computers to do all that.

Most things learned in university is not applicable to the real world. Training colleges on the other hand teaches the 'hands on' practical skills that is more applicable in the workforce. Just my opinion.

 

[simonvee]

Hey Simon,
My first computer that I actually owned myself was a Tandy 1000HX. I did lots of things on this computer. I wrote midi music, painted with drawing program, programmed in BASIC, played games and communicated and downloaded files off BBS server computers. Well I typed and used spreadsheets also.. But I used it just like I use my Mac today. The only thing that has really changed is now I can do video and real music.

Thanks for sharing.

How did you Google back in the days?

 

[lclev]

Thanks for sharing.

How did you Google back in the days?

Boolean operator searches....those were the days! You would type in your search words peppered with AND, NOT and OR to get the database to narrow down your results - hopefully!

I can remember when google entered into the search world getting messages from them say I did not need to enter in the search parameters anymore as they were doing that for me. I had a hard time letting that go as I was sure they did not know exactly what I was looking for. I occasionally even today, will find myself having a flashback and entering "AND, NOT, OR" to a request. I have noticed they quit with the "You don't need to do that - we know!" messages.

Lisa

 

[cwa107]

My first computer was a Commodore 64C and I mostly used it for playing games as well as a bit of BASIC programming and printing banners and such from Print Shop.

That's what got me hooked though - shortly thereafter I bought an Amiga 600, then a used Amiga 2000. Aside from playing games, programming and word processing, I also started to get into Bulletin Board Systems. A friend of mine had a rather large one with 3 lines as I recall and there were a number of others within the local exchange. I spent a vast amount of time in discussion threads on the BBS as well as chatting with the others who were online (there was one BBS in particular that had some crazy amount of lines, like 20+). I was also an assistant sysop on one BBS, so I spent a good amount of time going through PD software and making sure it was virus-free and useful content.

The Internet killed the BBS world in short order, but in many ways, it was more fun than today. Definitely required a lot more problem-solving skill than we use today, which is probably why I'm in the career I'm in now.

 

[XJ-linux]

Computers were useful for quite a while before their interconnectivity was ubiquitous, in my opinion. The application software just needed to catch up to be useful to the average Joe. Hence, the term "killer app", long before Apple claimed to invert the "app" terminology or Al Gore invented the internet. Marketing and price certainly factor in as a major influence as well.