After upgrading RAM, flashing folder/? - can't boot from Panther Retail Instal Disc 1

[NanoBite]

Hi, I'm helping an older friend who has an iBook Clamshell 466MHz. This iBook has given her no problems and was originally purchased from eBay and came with OS 9 installed.

The battery holds no charge but the date/time is correct in Panther while under OS 9.2.2 the time/date was always wrong.

I helped to upgrade the iBook to Panther, using a Full Retail Panther disc set and this went without any problems. I noticed afterwards that Classic was listed under the System Preferences but wasn't installed and I couldn't forsee any probs with that.

Then my friend purchased some RAM (512mb X 1 to replace the 128mb stick) from MemoryTen and after I installed it the iBook wouldn't boot and displayed the flashing folder/question mark. So I replaced the 512mb module with the original 128mb module but still got the flashing folder/? at boot.

I tried to boot from the Panther instal CD #1 (Full Retail Version) and holding the C key for ages but the screen stays black after the startup chime. I tried Option + Command + P + R but only hear the 1st startup chime then there's just the black screen for ages so I eventually have to let go the key sequence. I also noted the green light at the power connection turned orange after about a minute or two. I reset the PMU to no avail and tried to reset the Open Firmware but the screen stayed black. I also tried to boot from the CD via command-shift-option-delete but after hearing the CD spin for a second or two there was just the same old black screen.

I connected my iMac Core2Duos keyboard/mouse to the iBook via USB 1 and tried that but still no joy.

I am stumped about what this could be or what to do next as I'd rather troubleshoot this myself as much as I can.

Do I need the original OS discs to proceed further with troubleshooting? Do I need to try connecting my iMac C2Duo to the iBook using Target Disc Mode to further troubleshoot?

I just realised I left the battery connected during the upgrade .... I realise the battery is dead anyway but is this the cause of the boot failure?

I've since troubleshooted that I need to reset the PMU each time I try something in order for that something to work. So, I've now successfully reset the PRAM, the Open Firmware and if I press Option with the Panther disc in at bootup, I see the select startup options of the HD or the Panther Disc. If I select on or the other and click on the arrow to continue, the screen seems to reload and I'm back at the beginning again.

I tried to boot with only the 64mb onboard RAM but still see the Flashing Folder/?.

This is the RAM type that was bought from Memory Ten:

512MB Apple iMac/iBook/PowerBook PC133 1" SDRAM SODIMM (p/n MX-M8631G/A)

To say I've tried everything possible on my own would be true, so I'm officially stumped.

 

[MacHeadCase]

Welcome to Mac-Forums, Spawn__Dooley.

Did you check to see if the iBook needed a Firmware Update before installing Mac OS X Panther? If it does, that's why it doesn't work.

 

[Sherman Homan]

Spawn, do you still have your System 9 boot disk rattling around somewhere? Try booting from that, but if MacHeadCase is right about the firmware, you may be hosed.

 

[dtravis7]

If it is the firmware issue MHC is taking about, there might be a way back. I know there was with some iMacs with that same issue that were hosed by installing 10.2. I will check around and see what I can find. Can you give us any more info? Since you can't boot into the OS I guess you can't check the firmware.

 

[NanoBite]

Thanks for the super swift replies ... I did download the Firmware update but received a message that it was already updated. I was aware of the danger in upgrading without first updating the Firmware.

My friend bought the Clamshell iBook G3 from eBay and it came pre installed with OS 9 but didn't come with any discs. I updated it for her to 9.2.2 then when she bought the Panther discs I upgraded the iBook without any hitch. I decided not to keep OS 9 and just erase the HD and installed Panther.

 

[dtravis7]

Here is a thread I found with similar issues to yours. Read it and see if anything there helps.

http://forums.macosxhints.com/archive/index.php/t-62158.html

 

[NanoBite]

Thanks for that great link! It was very informative. My friend recently received an email from MemoryTen Support and they tell her she bought the wrong RAM module .... even though their website directed my friend to compatible RAM for her iBook.

http://www.memoryx.net/ib46specad.html

The RAM I have here is the $89 module but apparantly the $99 module is the correct one ... how utterly confusing!

I've had a look at the RAM and notice that the RAM upgrade looks different to the installed RAM and not only that but the purchased upgrade module looks different to the photo of it on the MemoryTen website.

The photo of the RAM that they recommend should have been purchased looks like the RAM already installed. Whew!! Now I'm really confused?!



Top left...........................Previously installed 128mb module.
Top right.........................The $99 module MemX Support now recommend as Apple compatible.

Bottom left......................Pic of $89 module purchased.
Bottom right....................The actual module received.



The module received has gold plating half way up the sides whereas the advertised module picture doesn't, nor do the originally installed RAM or the RAM MemX now say is the best compatible Apple RAM for the iBook .....
...

 

[MacHeadCase]

Tell your friend to ask for her money back and that she should do business with a good place like OWC (Other World Computing - great service, lifetime warranty on the RAM sold there, very helpful people too).

 

[NanoBite]

I feel really bad 'cos I was the catalyst behind upgrading from OS 9.2.2 to Panther and maxing out the RAM but now the Mac won't boot regardless and I don't know why.

I've been spending hours trying to come to terms with the issue but I don't really know what the exact problem is or what positives exist for me to build on.

 

[dtravis7]

Did you try everything in that one URL I sent you? I will look around tomorrow when I get up and see if I can find anything else to help.

 

[NanoBite]

Did you try everything in that one URL I sent you? I will look around tomorrow when I get up and see if I can find anything else to help.

Yes I did most of the tips, thanks. The only thing I haven't tried is the Target Disc Mode as I don't have the firewire cable.

Basically I have an iBook that was running perfectly one minute and now refuses to boot. Since it originally came with OS 9 installed is it true that the Panther Restore disc is useless at this point? My friend bought the mac without discs so that's a bummer.

Do you know if the flashing folder/? indicates the Logic Board isn't fried? I was concerned that I touched the logic board slightly as I was having a heck of a time freeing the previously installed 128mb module.

I've searched the net and performed all the basic troubleshooting steps that I can see ....

I've also had my friend contact the vendor but their support is pretty lame really. I will be sending the RAM back for a full credit but that doesn't help me return the iBook to it's previous working state....

 

[MacHeadCase]

I would think that with a flashing folder, I would look first at software problems: usually this means the system can't find a valid OS to boot from.

There could be a couple of reasons behind this: the Mac doesn't know which to choose to start from (OS 9 or OS X Panther), it could be that the OS has been corrupted or it could be that the Mac is looking for its startup OS on a network.

But could you make one point clear? In your opening post, you speak of a full retail version of Panther and yet in the post just above you say

Panther Restore disc

Which is it? They are not the same and if it isn't the correct Restore disk, that might be the problem as these are hardware specific disks. In the more recent Macs, you simply cannot install the OS using the wrong restore disks but am not sure if these old models, the iBook clamshell, had some type of blocking mechanism in the software to prevent this...

 

[NanoBite]

But could you make one point clear? In your opening post, you speak of a full retail version of Panther and yet in the post just above you say "Panther Restore Disc"

Thanks for your time, I did as much web research as I could, considering I felt there wasn't a definitive issue but more a mish-mash, so to speak.

My friend bought Panther from eBay and it is the full retail version with black labels and white Xs on them. There are 4 discs, 3 instal discs and 1 x-code tools disc. When I did the upgrade, only 2 of the 3 instal discs were required, I think the 3rd has optional software.

I researched and found that the 1st instal disc is the one you need to boot from at startup, holding the "C" key, if you wish to run Disc Utilities. So the term 'Restore Disc' is my faux pas considering there wasn't a restore disc as such with the package. So I call the Instal Disc #1 the "Restore Disc".

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I plan to have the RAM returned but at the moment the original RAM is installed and I'm quite keen to return my friends iBook to her in the condition she gave it to me ... which was perfect working order.

 

[dtravis7]

Still looking around but thought I would jump in and say that is the right Panther for sure. You just described my 4 CD Panther Factory I purchased brand new a few years back now. You for sure have the right version. Will get back to you if I can find anything. I have never gotten to work with a Clamshell, but wonder if they have any sort of a CUDA reset button on the inside? If you can get to the PRAM Battery on the inside, you might try taking it out and leaving it out for a while and then putting it back and trying to load the CD. Seen that work on a few old G4 towers and one G3 B&W I was repairing.

 

[NanoBite]

Hi again, the iBook Clamshell G3 466MHz has the PRAM battery inbuilt into the main battery as far as my research found and the reset PMU button which is the equivalent of the CUDA button sometimes found on the Logic Board on some macs is just above the power button on this particular iBook ...

I have to reset the PMU everytime I want to reboot and the link you gave me earlier showed someone having to do that exact same thing.

I guess I need to know whether or not I will need the original install disc that came with this mac (9.0.4), or the 10.0 install disc or what AND even if I did have those discs will the iBook recognise them in the slot drive and boot from them???

Maybe that is the only thing to do .... reinstall OS 9 then update to 9.2.2 then install Panther again.

Do you have any opinions on the photo of the MemX RAM they sent compared to the photo taken off their website, of that same RAM?

I Googled the code on the "Warranty Void If Removed" sticker of the RAM they sent (HB52RF648DCA-75B ADC 512MB) and could only find a match to a Non-Apple Notebook????

 

[dtravis7]

Only thing I can tell you on the RAM is I have seen systems (Older Systems) where PC133 RAM either would not work at all or where it caused issues. My iMac G3 Bondi Blue hates this brand new 128 MB stick of PC133 ram. The machine boots but locked doing anything in OSX. It locked opening apps, even opening a folder in the finder. Something told me the old Mac did not like that PC133 Stick so I took it out and installed a Micron PC100 128MB and not one lockup since. Yet the PC133 RAM is in perfect shape and works fine in other machines.

I have never heard of a PRAM battery built into the Main battery. That PMU button though is what I was thinking of so you have tried it. I will keep checking.

Going back to OS9 might be a good thing to see what happens and also double check the firmware. Too bad you don't have a OS9 CD with the machine.

 

[NanoBite]

I have never heard of a PRAM battery built into the Main battery. That PMU button though is what I was thinking of so you have tried it. I will keep checking.

Here's the link about the PRAM battery:

http://www.welovemacs.com/ibpr1.html

Could you just confirm for my if the install disc at this link is the only disc needed in my situation?

Full Install Macintosh OS 9.2.1 CD NEW Not Upgrade

 

[dtravis7]

Here's the link about the PRAM battery:

http://www.welovemacs.com/ibpr1.html

Thanks for the info. I have never had an issue with one and did not realize there was no PRAM battery in the ibooks. Good find! You learn something new every day!

 

[NanoBite]

I edited my previous post since you last read it, could you please re-read it?

I also went out and bought a Firewire cable to try TDM between my iMac C2D and the iBook but couldn't get past the flashing folder/?.

 

[dtravis7]

I edited my previous post since you last read it, could you please re-read it?

I also went out and bought a Firewire cable to try TDM between my iMac C2D and the iBook but couldn't get past the flashing folder/?.

That should work on your machine. I doubt it's what came with the machine originally but it should boot and install. I have that exact CD here and it boots all my iMacs, even the 233 Bondi Blue.