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  1. #1
    I7 Imac Final Cut 7 Slow Rendering

    Member Since
    Sep 27, 2010
    Posts
    8
    I7 Imac Final Cut 7 Slow Rendering
    Hello Everyone, this is my very first post.

    I have done some editing in the past with final cut pro 5.1 and I just upgraded to final cut studio 3, which includes FCP 7.

    I also picked up a new Imac i7 4gb RAM.

    My setup is the following.

    Firewire 800 Mybook set up as my scratch disk and storage.
    Capture Samsung HMX-s16 1920x1080 1080 30p
    Final Cut Pro 7

    My Problem is the following

    I imported all the files into fcp and set my sequence to 422 (LT)
    Once i drop the files i have to render, which takes long time; I understand it needs to do so to convert the files to 422(LT). What i dont understand is why it takes SO long to render even the smallest transitions. The render is set to 50% quality and rgb only.

    I just spent a lot of money for this new setup and I really thought it was going to be somewhat fast.

    My thoughts

    Firewire is the bottle neck
    Need more RAM
    Some of my settings are way off


    I thank everyone that will give me some info and help. It will be greatly appreciated.


  2. #2
    I7 Imac Final Cut 7 Slow Rendering

    Member Since
    Feb 25, 2009
    Posts
    2,109
    Specs:
    Late 2013 rMBP, i7, 750m gpu, OSX versions 10.9.3, 10.10
    Hi!

    Welcome to the forums!

    Basically, as I see it right now - your biggest bottleneck is your workflow/settings. Before RAM or scratch. I say this because I routinely have to edit on a much slower machine then the hoss you have and have significantly better performance.

    Log and Transfer to the codec you plan to use on the sequence.

    If you're going to want to use ProRES LT, make sure its set to that prior to using log and transfer to import your footage. Logging and transferring by default is I think ProRES or ProRES 444 (I don't have my FCS3 machine in front of me) - which means if you're dropping onto a LT sequence it will have to render everything - over and over and over, each time you make a change, those transitions will be rendered, etc. It should NOT have to render when dropping from like codec to like codec. Since it seems all of your footage is from the same camera, this should be a non-issue.

    RAM - more is always nice, but isn't necessarily required (depending on what you're doing) - I know I edit graduation footage on an older 2 GHz iMac w/ 2Gig of ram (and the scratch drive is connected via USB - work is too cheap to get me what I want) and aside from the long periods of Log and Transfer (to convert from AVCHD into ProRES) and export for output (sequence to self contained movie for Compressor) I rarely have to render much more then very short clips (certain transitions that I like to use that can't be done in real time on this machine require rendering) and it doesn't spend long in rendering (now when it hits a period of auto-render where it will render what it needs, that's a different story, but I don't need to render everything when I put the clips into the sequence)

    Although a FW800 drive isn't as fast as, for example, a SATA drive, it should be more then adequate for a full digital workflow (assuming you're not using one of the uber high bit rate professional cameras and corresponding codecs)

    ps - if for some reason it doesn't do log and transfer for your footage (which I don't see any reason why it won't - it records in MP4 H.264 (although it doesn't seem to record to an AVCHD structure) which is not an editing codec) -you can always use Compressor or a tool like MPegStreamClip to convert the MP4/H.264 files from the camera into ProRes that you plan to use on the sequence then import those files into your project - you will probably want to make sure you save them on the scratch drive tho as I can't remember off hand if importing existing footage will copy/move it into the projects media folders on the scratch drive
    My Macs: Late 2013 rMBP w/ 750m; Mac mini G4, 1.25 GHz, 512m ram (server); Late 2011 11" MBA, 1.8GHz i7, 4Gig Ram, 256Gig SSD, HD3000; Powerbook 12" G4 1.33GHz running Debian as a server; Apple TV (1080p version)

  3. #3
    I7 Imac Final Cut 7 Slow Rendering

    Member Since
    Sep 27, 2010
    Posts
    8
    kenine declared
    Nethfel,

    First of all thank you!

    I have a samsung hmx-s16 which I don't think it can do log and transfer directly into final cut pro, i tried with fcp5 and it did not work. But I will try tonight.

    I will try the new workflow if that does not work. So I would have to: 1) download the files from my camera, use compressor to make them prores 422, or 422 (LT,HQ) and then
    2) use them in FCP7 using the same settings from the sequence.
    Conclusion: This will allow me to make as many transitions and changes without having to render the footage.

    After thoughts
    My firewire hard drive is fine, and more RAM wont hurt and will improve overall performace.

    Can you confirm?

    Thank you again!

  4. #4
    I7 Imac Final Cut 7 Slow Rendering

    Member Since
    Feb 25, 2009
    Posts
    2,109
    Specs:
    Late 2013 rMBP, i7, 750m gpu, OSX versions 10.9.3, 10.10
    That's right now how it appears.

    I'd definitely test on the log and transfer, it's not listed in the FCP compatible equipment list (actually, no samsung cameras are) but it *might* still work - couldn't hurt to try as it would save an external step.

    Yes, you can use compressor OR MPegStreamClip (whichever you feel more comfortable with) - you may want to test with some smaller clips to get everything right so you don't spend a lot of time having to re-transcode if you find you set something wrong.

    Yes, your best bet is to have either the video have the same settings as the sequence or sequence same as video - although FCP is quite flexible about dragging in multiple different codecs/containers and such into the sequence, it's definitely easier to deal with the material if everything is using the same settings (usually, if your sequence is different, it will pop up when you try to put the first clip in that it differs from the clip and asks if you want to set it the same).

    I BELIEVE this SHOULD fix (or at least reduce) the problem - unless you're using many layers or extremely complex transitions that can't be run real time (transitions your machine can run in realtime should be in bold - sticking to those should also reduce extra rendering time), you shouldn't have to do rendering as often as your experiencing (especially not just dropping footage into the sequence unless of course you're using a clip that's different and the sequence won't let you play it until rendering). I feel at the very least it's worth the effort to try. This will not change the auto render settings that are in the preferences that I think default to rendering parts every 45 minutes.

    As I mentioned, I use a much weaker machine at work to edit and I don't have to render on every single clip I put in the sequence, nor on every transition I add (although I'll also admit it does take a while on this machine to import my AVCHD footage because the machine isn't the fastest and transcoding takes a while - I much rather be at home and using my mac pro to do the work, but then I wouldn't get paid )
    My Macs: Late 2013 rMBP w/ 750m; Mac mini G4, 1.25 GHz, 512m ram (server); Late 2011 11" MBA, 1.8GHz i7, 4Gig Ram, 256Gig SSD, HD3000; Powerbook 12" G4 1.33GHz running Debian as a server; Apple TV (1080p version)

  5. #5
    I7 Imac Final Cut 7 Slow Rendering

    Member Since
    Sep 27, 2010
    Posts
    8
    I am trying to use compressor to convert the mp4 files to prores 422, a 30 seconds clip takes about 10 minutes, this is really frustrating, I wish I knew a better work flow, What do you suggest? Also when i import the files into compressor the computer just hangs for few seconds, is the camera the problem??

  6. #6
    I7 Imac Final Cut 7 Slow Rendering

    Member Since
    Sep 27, 2010
    Posts
    8
    ProRes 422 (LT) about 10 minutes of .mp4 files takes about 1 hour, im using compressor no other applications open.

  7. #7
    I7 Imac Final Cut 7 Slow Rendering

    Member Since
    Feb 25, 2009
    Posts
    2,109
    Specs:
    Late 2013 rMBP, i7, 750m gpu, OSX versions 10.9.3, 10.10
    That does seem a bit long honestly. I have a feeling that not all of your cores are being utilized like they should be. Check out:

    Compressor - Enabling multiple Cores

    Which describes the setup to get compressor to use all of the cores on your system to the max.

    As I also mentioned, you can use MPegstreamclip as well if you have trouble with Compressor.
    My Macs: Late 2013 rMBP w/ 750m; Mac mini G4, 1.25 GHz, 512m ram (server); Late 2011 11" MBA, 1.8GHz i7, 4Gig Ram, 256Gig SSD, HD3000; Powerbook 12" G4 1.33GHz running Debian as a server; Apple TV (1080p version)

  8. #8
    I7 Imac Final Cut 7 Slow Rendering

    Member Since
    Sep 27, 2010
    Posts
    8
    Once again I thank you so much for the much appreciated help. You really helped me out a lot. I hope other people will find this helpful.

  9. #9
    I7 Imac Final Cut 7 Slow Rendering

    Member Since
    Sep 27, 2010
    Posts
    8
    Some files are coming out ok from compressor other files have a purple tint to it, i erased these files and tried to run compressor again. Same problem.

  10. #10
    I7 Imac Final Cut 7 Slow Rendering

    Member Since
    Feb 25, 2009
    Posts
    2,109
    Specs:
    Late 2013 rMBP, i7, 750m gpu, OSX versions 10.9.3, 10.10
    They shouldn't have purple tint - it shouldn't have ANY color shift. It almost sounds like there is some setting changed in Compressor, or compressor is just acting hinky...

    Watch the clips in vlc and/or movist to make sure there isn't something wrong with the files themselves, then for humors sake, give mpegstreamclip a try (I know I mention it a lot, but it does work well, is easier then compressor and does have a lot of features, and it will happily give you the options to use ProRES when exporting to Quicktime).
    My Macs: Late 2013 rMBP w/ 750m; Mac mini G4, 1.25 GHz, 512m ram (server); Late 2011 11" MBA, 1.8GHz i7, 4Gig Ram, 256Gig SSD, HD3000; Powerbook 12" G4 1.33GHz running Debian as a server; Apple TV (1080p version)

  11. #11
    I7 Imac Final Cut 7 Slow Rendering

    Member Since
    Sep 27, 2010
    Posts
    8
    I am exporting everything in 720 24p. Its working fine now, I will try prores in mgstrc. later, thank you so much.

  12. #12
    I7 Imac Final Cut 7 Slow Rendering

    Member Since
    Sep 27, 2010
    Posts
    8
    I am using Mpeg Streamclip much easier and great results, its just a shame that after spending so much cash you have to rely on freeware! yea the 720 24p wasnt a good idea, trial and error ! =)

  13. #13
    I7 Imac Final Cut 7 Slow Rendering

    Member Since
    Feb 25, 2009
    Posts
    2,109
    Specs:
    Late 2013 rMBP, i7, 750m gpu, OSX versions 10.9.3, 10.10
    Well, it all depends on the target. For example, for transcoding to mpeg2 files for DVD I only use compressor.

    But yeah, Mpegstreamclip is a REALLY easy tool to use and convenient. I use it a lot.
    My Macs: Late 2013 rMBP w/ 750m; Mac mini G4, 1.25 GHz, 512m ram (server); Late 2011 11" MBA, 1.8GHz i7, 4Gig Ram, 256Gig SSD, HD3000; Powerbook 12" G4 1.33GHz running Debian as a server; Apple TV (1080p version)

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