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  1. #16


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    I'm surprised at this actually - this did start out as a rather unsubtle Flash-bashing post in the anything goes forum, and I edited it out when it got moved here.

    But so far nobody has really tried to defend Flash at all - the best we've got is neutrality.

    I'm curious to know how Flash fits into 'web 2.0'. While IMHO it doesn't fit at all with the 'simple content' philosophy, it is maybe better than simple html for the interactive part.

    Gotta say though, I shall continue to ignore anything flash until bandwidth makes loading time as quick as standard webpages, which will probably never happen, as fatter bandwidth will just = more bloated content.

  2. #17


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    I think Flash isn't being defended because it's somewhat outdated at this point. You're right, it doesn't really have a point anymore. Ajax, Ruby, etc are all superceding it.

  3. #18


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    Quote Originally Posted by Willem View Post
    Why does OSX have fancy genie minimize effects and ripple effects and so on? Eye candy. Some people want their web experience to be pimped up. Some don't.
    Well, I switch all that off too. You're quite correct it's personal choice though, but if I was responsible for marketing a product or service on the web, and I was aware that my website was causing people to exercise their choice to go elsewhere, I'd want to do something about it.

    There's no question that *some* people simply won't visit Flash sites. They block Flash. I can't imagine anybody leaves a site because it doesn't have Flash, so Flash is a one way street - it only ever drives people away.

    I'm talking about the really stupid end of the market though - webpages that take 30 seconds to load. If Flash loads at the same time, or after the main content, it won't bother me. It's when you have to sit twiddling your thumbs waiting for ANYTHING to happen that it's an obvious intrusion.

  4. #19

    giulio's Avatar
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    If flash is done right, I like it. Classy, slick, and unobtrsive. I dont like CHECK THIS OUT ITS FLASH!! You can't bookmark flash. I'm not sure if you can print it. It kills CPU.
    But some sites have flash elements and do it correctly.
    schweb This has to be one of the best threads ever in MF history...
    Cherokee This gets my vote for most innovative thread on Mac-Forums... ever.

  5. #20

    sidewinder's Avatar
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    What do you think about this site?

  6. #21


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    Quote Originally Posted by sidewinder View Post
    What do you think about this site?
    Hey, check out my spiffy homepage!! Wait, just a sec, let me load it up for you. It's real good, looks terrific! really, it won't take long. Nearly there . . .
    \


    OK, now what do you want to see?
    \


    Sure! My client portfolio!! Just a minute, I'll load it up for you. It's worth the wait, honest. I'll tell you all about the great websites I . . . hello? Hello?Anybody there?
    \


    Where'd everybody go?
    \

  7. #22


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    Unfortunately, that's not how those meetings go. They want flash sites.

  8. #23

    giulio's Avatar
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    In my experience, the client doesn't want flash. they want to say their site has flash. To keep up with the Jones. It's just a buzzword to them.
    I've always been able to turn that discussion right around.
    schweb This has to be one of the best threads ever in MF history...
    Cherokee This gets my vote for most innovative thread on Mac-Forums... ever.

  9. #24

    dtravis7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sidewinder View Post
    What do you think about this site?
    Wow, Looks great but doubt I would want to go through that every time I went there! It's looks very nice though the first time.

  10. #25


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    Quote Originally Posted by dtravis7 View Post
    Wow, Looks great but doubt I would want to go through that every time I went there! It's looks very nice though the first time.
    Actually I should have said that too. It looks absolutely fantastic - I'd give my right arm for 1% of that guys design talent, but I can't help thinking he's doing himself a big disservice by wrapping it all up in what is basically an unusable package.

    I'm only looking at it because that's what we're talking about. Any other time I wouldn't have even seen the first page.

  11. #26


    Member Since
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willem View Post
    I think Flash isn't being defended because it's somewhat outdated at this point. You're right, it doesn't really have a point anymore. Ajax, Ruby, etc are all superceding it.
    How is Flash outdated? It's the de facto plug-in on the Web and while Ajax/Ruby are on the rise I don't think Flash will go away anytime soon.

    The simple answer is that one needs the right tool for the right job. Most sites would probably do well w/some simple ajax components for ease of use while others would greatly benefit from using Flash as their platform of choice.

    There is this really small website called YouTube that uses Flash to show their video clips. You should take a look at it some day so you can see how outdated Flash really is.

  12. #27

    PunkRockTuba's Avatar
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    I love flash websites and if done well, they can really enhance the browsing experience. Preloaders dont bother me at all, unless they literally take forever to load, and the internet is getting faster and faster these days so I really dont see load time as a huge problem. You have to wait in lines at banks, grocery stores, restaurants, red lights, stop signs, etc. So why is waiting for a website to load that big of a problem? Granted you dont always have to wait in line for things, but a lot of the time you do.

    I like the interactivity in flash sites and the amount of stuff you can do with it. If I go to a webpage and they have a flash or html option, i always choose flash.

  13. #28


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    Quote Originally Posted by arai_speed View Post
    How is Flash outdated? It's the de facto plug-in on the Web and while Ajax/Ruby are on the rise I don't think Flash will go away anytime soon.

    The simple answer is that one needs the right tool for the right job. Most sites would probably do well w/some simple ajax components for ease of use while others would greatly benefit from using Flash as their platform of choice.

    There is this really small website called YouTube that uses Flash to show their video clips. You should take a look at it some day so you can see how outdated Flash really is.
    De facto plugin doesn't mean it has any point. De facto on the web is html, or at least a fast parsing text language.

    It's just my opinion, but I think flash could have been great if it hadn't been so badly abused in the past. I think of it like pepper sauce - it's good for adding a little spice, but if there's too much of it it starts ruining the meal.

    Some sites are just a big bowl of Tabasco. They're kind of hard to digest.

  14. #29


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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyd View Post
    De facto plugin doesn't mean it has any point. De facto on the web is html, or at least a fast parsing text language.

    It's just my opinion, but I think flash could have been great if it hadn't been so badly abused in the past. I think of it like pepper sauce - it's good for adding a little spice, but if there's too much of it it starts ruining the meal.

    Some sites are just a big bowl of Tabasco. They're kind of hard to digest.
    If Flash did not have a point it would not be the "de facto" plug-in, period (keword here is plug-in).

    Browser's would not incorporate it into their designs if it did not have a point. Not sure how you can say it does not have a point - but I guess that's your opinion and you are entitled to it.

    Like I said before, the right tool for the right job. It makes sense for YouTube to use Flash to display their videos, everyone has Flash installed and they don't have to worry about detecting what media player a user has on their machine.

    It makes sense to create an animation that takes 3 frames instead of writing an Ajax class to do the same thing. I guess product demos with audio and video could be created in Ajax, just not sure why.

    I am coming from the point of view of what is the best technoglogy for the job - maybe I misread the forum category we are in and this is just a griping session about pointless plug-ins

  15. #30


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    YouTube, according to the link in this story, is switching to H.264 because of Apple TV.

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