01-25-2008, 02:49 PM

Hi, thank you for the great info, No I do not own a Mac personally I use one at work and like it very much. It is error free, I have windows on it only so I can access Mionet Server and my Canon 8180c as there are no drivers for Mac. I heard you can SLI video cards in Windows but nothing firm yet. Yes I could go out and buy a $6000.00 dollars Dell xps (with a inefficient power supply and cooling problems and the list goes on) but I don’t want to invest in poor quality. Gaming is a high priority for me as I have been gaming since 94' and I am still currently gaming and compete on several servers. I am willing to sacrifice some areas as I already have a gaming system with and 8800 ultra, no big deal, I just want a super system and with a pro I wont need to swap out mother boards as the current chip set will be around for awhile, I hope. I guess I truly wont know until I buy one and see for my self, but hey I guess when I do I will report back my finding here so that we will know for sure from a real gamers point of view how Mac stands in the game realm. I know at some point apple will be a contender in the market. I will post my finding so check back in a month, I will order my system tonight.

Thanks for all your replies I found them very helpful.

01-25-2008, 08:20 PM

Wow, talk about some rude and unhelpful answers. Sure, the OP isn't asking about something you specifically care about, and his grammer and spelling isn't perfect but neither was yours.

So here is a more useful answer (hopefully):

NVIDIA 8800 GT Is the DX10 capable in windows ?
Booting into windows do you lose any of the capabilities of the card? will it still be 512?

Booting into Windows results in full access to the card. This includes full access to the video RAM, feature-set, etc. Being an nVidia 8000 series card, you will be able to run DX10 applications, but to do that you will need run Vista (not XP) which isn't ideal but will work fine.

can I buy two NVIDIA 8800gt and use both as one video car in windows?

In theory, you can run two 8800GTs but Apple don't offer this as a standard configuration. This is probably due to both heat and power considerations. The Quadro card takes two auxillary power inputs, but the 8800 only takes one so that suggests that it is technically possible however I would do more research on this first. Remember that only one of the PCI-Express slots on this board is 16x, the rest are 8x slots. On the older Mac Pro you could configure the bandwidth per slot using software, but on this one you are locked in. This means that only the first card will run at full speed. I tried to find a tech reference to confirm this, but couldn't so there's a chance I'm mistaken about the secondary slots (they may be a mix of 4x and 8x).

This in turns suggests that SLI and Crossfire configurations, while potentially do-able, aren't going to yield particularly impressive performance gains.

Also, you only have 300W of power to play with (absolute max) on the PCI-Express bus for this machine, so dual 8800s means no raid controller or any other PCI cards.

Finally on this, under OSX you won't be able to use an SLI or Crossfire configuration - there is no support for the master/slave ATI cards under OSX and no nVidia SLI support either so you would probably find yourself running nothing but Windows if you went down this path.

Is the Mac able to support two ATI Radeon HD in crossfire in windows ?

Quite probably, as Crossfire does not seem to be particularly heavily dependent on BIOS or chipset. Still, going back to PCI slot bandwidth and OSX support for the cards, this isn't an ideal config.

The four PCI-E buses are they x16t or is x16 shared between the four?

Answered above (I think).


You want a gaming rig that also runs OSX, has some basic expansion options, and is much more powerful than anything else you've used. So a Mac Pro is a reasonably good answer. The Harpertown processors aren't specifically designed for gamers, but then again few CPUs are - games just happen to demand a LOT of processing power, and the Mac Pro meets that requirement. Multi-threaded games are going to have far more processing grunt than they can reasonably expect to use.

The video card options aren't too bad either - the 8800GT isn't quite at the level of the 8800 Ultra, but it is close. It will, however, age and Apple have a history of never upgrading their video cards (old Mac Pro owners will agree with this, and are still sobbing over their inability to use the new 8800GT card on their 6 month old workstations). So if you want to run OSX on your machine, bear in mind that video card upgrades are not likely to be easy and may not even be possible.

Mac Pro RAM isn't cheap, they went for server-grade memory which means it costs an arm an a leg. Still, OWC will sell you 4GB for $200 USD these days so building a machine with 6GB isn't totally out of the question. And yes, games use a LOT of memory but under Windows won't use more than 4GB (actually, a bit less than this but who cares for the sake of this conversation). If you plan on using VMWare Fusion or Parallels Desktop under OSX, I'd strongly advise 6GB of RAM. If you plan on doing extremely heavy video or graphic manipulation, 3D rendering, or serious CAD, the rule of thumb seems to be 1GB RAM per CPU core (so 8GB). Fortunately there are 8 slots, so you can upgrade in stages if you like.

Hard drives in the Mac Pro are easily replaced, and are one area where they really did great work. And the box is quiet, looks cool, is reliable, and comes with a sexy operating system on it.

This model of Mac Pro is very new, so don't expect to find a whole lot of definitive information out there - with a 3 week+ shipping delay on 8800GT equiped units, very few people have their hands on one yet.

Personally, I've been playing Windows-based games since PCs came into existence. My Mac Pro is on order, and will replace my Core 2 E6600 based workstation (4GB RAM, 8800GTS, 2TB disk, dual LCD, etc). I've ordered an extra 4GB of RAM and a couple of 1TB hard disks (from a third-party, Apple wanted my firstborn for them) and opted for the 8800GT. In my view, for day-to-day use it won't be noticably faster but for gaming it will scream. I'm going to run mine in OSX most of the time and use VMWare Fusion to retain access to my Windows applications. Gaming will require me to bootcamp into XP (so no DX10), but that is bearable. Sure, it'll be an expensive machine. But I see it outlasting any machine on the market right now.

Hopefully all this help.

Oh, and guys? Once in a while try helping the guy out instead of mocking him for wanting to do something you don't agree with? bryphotoguy, you come across as a real bully in your posts - perhaps it isn't intentional, or perhaps you just are one. Either way, wind it back eh?

01-25-2008, 09:35 PM

Originally Posted by bryphotoguy

As I previously mentioned, it's 16/16/4/4 according to Apple.

Copied from the Apple Tech Specs:

PCI Express expansion7

Three open full-length PCI Express expansion slots
One PCI Express 2.0 x16 slot
Two PCI Express x4 slots
All slots provide mechanical support for 16-lane cards
300W combined maximum for all PCI Express slots

This doesn't consider the slot with the video card in it see its not open because the slot had the card in it.

Am I a bully because I mentioned that needs to work on his grammar and sentence structure? It was only a warning. There are many people here who refuse to help someone who doesn't care to write a proper sentence. I am trying to make sure he gets the help he was looking for. Just like how I am mentioning to you that you need to fix your post and remove the cursing and/ or symbols because both are illegal.

Anyways, good first first post. I recopied the above info I wrote earlier because it appears you missed that info.

01-26-2008, 01:01 PM

Thank you for pointing out my grammar, I do apologise, I use a HTC handheld, I should be aware of my grammar. I am sorry if some Mac user will not respond to my question due to poor grammar, reminds me of my old professor "oh my god heaven forbid" I think all replies were helpful. When you go and spend $7,500 on a computer you want to learn as much as you can before purchase. The PciE and GPU are very important to me as I play hardcore games, I am truly sorry about that. I'm 35 own my own company have 45 employees, clients who are well known to you all, a great family and 3 cars that would make you drool, who am I?? who cares, but even if I have
enough spare change in my Ashtray to buy a Mac pro I would still answer anyone's questions bad grammar or not. Everyone deserves respect even if they cant spell. Blah blllaaaa blaa. So anyway thank you so much for your
replies they truly have been helpful, I will continue to post here (from a gamers point of view) and will hopefully be able to add some value to this forum regarding game performance on the MAc pro, some won't care but others like me will. Hmm I think my tag will be Mac Gamer lol. Lurgen thank you for the info and help its people like you that I choose to be on my
team because you stand out from the rest and really help others and are not biased because they spell bad, I am sure away from this post you would be an awesome buddy. Thank you and I will continue reading this thread and posting in others and hopefully I can provide help like you did for someone like me with impossible questions and bad grammar.

01-26-2008, 01:17 PM

Cool and welcome.
What's an HTC handheld?

There are plenty of questions people have about using their iMac for gaming so there are a few Windows gamers on the boards. We're all here to learn so any first hand gaming experience you get will be most helpful.

We're just kinda warning you that there are much better systems out there for gaming than the Mac Pro. I've seen plenty of tests ran where people made their own PC equivalents to the Mac Pro and they've come out faster for gaming. None of them can legally run OS X but that's a trade off any gamer must sacrifice if they want a gaming machine that also has the ability to run OS X.

As for grammar, I sort of agree with those who won't help people with bad grammar. I seriously went over one of your posts, no offense to you because you can write, no less than 5 times and I was still confused about what you were asking. I gave up helping you in frustration.

Anyways, glad you're staying and hope you like your Mac Pro! It's the greatest computer I've ever purchased.

Curious though, you really didn't spend $7500 on it, did you? Apple's RAM and HD upgrades are very overpriced. No one here recommends purchasing those upgrades from Apple. What'd you buy?

01-26-2008, 01:31 PM

one simple comment you made makes one simple answer. you want to play games, so you want a PC.

01-26-2008, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by JUSCUZIAM

Thank you for pointing out my grammar, I do apologise, I use a HTC handheld, I should be aware of my grammar. I am sorry if some Mac user will not respond to my question due to poor grammar, reminds me of my old professor "oh my god heaven forbid" I think all replies were helpful. When you go and spend $7,500 on a computer you want to learn as much as you can before purchase. The PciE and GPU are very important to me as I play hardcore games, I am truly sorry about that. I'm 35 own my own company have 45 employees, clients who are well known to you all, a great family and 3 cars that would make you drool, who am I?? who cares, but even if I have
enough spare change in my Ashtray to buy a Mac pro I would still answer anyone's questions bad grammar or not. Everyone deserves respect even if they cant spell. Blah blllaaaa blaa. So anyway thank you so much for your
replies they truly have been helpful, I will continue to post here (from a gamers point of view) and will hopefully be able to add some value to this forum regarding game performance on the MAc pro, some won't care but others like me will. Hmm I think my tag will be Mac Gamer lol. Lurgen thank you for the info and help its people like you that I choose to be on my
team because you stand out from the rest and really help others and are not biased because they spell bad, I am sure away from this post you would be an awesome buddy. Thank you and I will continue reading this thread and posting in others and hopefully I can provide help like you did for someone like me with impossible questions and bad grammar.

You and me both. I'm working on my grammar, but i'm still struggling. I think it has gotten better but I don't know.
As you post more on the forums your grammar will get better, and if it doesn't i'll let you know because i'm in the same boat. You'll find that when you look back on your old posts you will laugh at your own mistakes.
I had horrible sentence structure, and I still do, but for me personally I think it's because I try to type things in the same way I would SAY them in person. When I say something in my head while i'm typing it out, if i pause in my head, I usually put a comma in the same place lol. And I had a lot of "broken" posts,
like this,
which yeah,
kinda, um,
would get a little annoying,
for anyone who reads them,
which makes sense.
LOL. But i'm working on it. I also make everything VERY long, if you haven't noticed. I can't keep it short and sweet and to the point, I don't know why.

Anyway, you'll get better at it if you want to. I'll be reading your stuff because I know how it feels, it's hard to tell if you are getting better at it without someone else telling you.

Good luck!

01-30-2008, 01:49 AM

I think the best machine for the OP is a Mac Pro. True, the Mac Pro is not marketed as a gaming machine, but nothing is stopping you from turning it into one. You show interest in using OSX and playing games: Install Vista on the Mac using Bootcamp, VMWare, or Parallels, and you accomplish both goals. A 2.8ghz 8-way machine, with 4GB RAM, and an 8800GT will be a screaming fast gaming rig, whether made by Apple or any PC maker.

Your only sacrifices with the Mac Pro is video card upgrade-ability and support for SLI/Xfire. I expect the 8800GT will run modern games for at least the next two years ("gamers" that upgrade more often then that do so for the status of owning the latest and greatest, not because their older cards are obsolete). I doubt that SLI/Xfire support is going to be a deal breaker in your case.

So, in conclusion, buy a Mac Pro.

As for grammar and spelling, make it a habit to always preview your posts and proofread for spelling, sentence structure, and composition. Your grade school English teacher taught you how to write a first draft and make revisions. It is a useful skill that should be carried into your online life, unless you are truly a "gamer." In that case, i pwn ur l33ts, or whatever.

01-30-2008, 07:27 AM

To the OP.

The Mac Pro as stated above many times can be tweaked to be a pretty decent gaming machine. But it will excel in all the secondary tasks you want to use it for. So for those times you are not playing games the Pro would be your best bet.

And some sources claim the pro runs XP/Vista better then the PC counterparts. So I would really look out there to see if you can get an ace graphics card in a PC that is noticeably better than the Mac Pro's one. If you can't then there's no reason to get the PC. Well price is an issue. But since you are talking Pros I'm assuming you are ok with paying that price.

02-02-2008, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by tobywuk

one simple comment you made makes one simple answer. you want to play games, so you want a PC.

No it isnt that simple now that Mac's can run windows... if it couldnt it would be, but it no longer isnt, more so since you can get an 8800GT for the mac systems.

02-11-2008, 01:52 PM

What's the deal with the video card? Is it something like poor MAC OS X driver support, if you were to add a new card? If I want development and gaming, whats stopping me from keeping the ATI 2600 and using it in Mac OS X. Then getting a 8800 Ultra and only using it in Windows mode?

This is just a driver equation right? I can hook both cards to my monitor ( i have dual inputs ) and just use the input for the OS I am booting into.

An 8 core Mac Pro is MUCH cheaper then an Alienware 4 core system, so I can see people wanting to use it for gaming.

02-11-2008, 02:06 PM

My 2 cents.

If you're primary goal is gaming, don't buy a Mac. It doesn't matter that it'a essentially a PC with a differnt coat on - you simply don't need an 8-core machine to play the best games, you need the best GFX card you can afford and you need SLI, and current Macs don't do this as well as you could do it if you built your own. Get a Core 2 Duo machine with a nVidia SLI Setup - games barely get any benefit from anything more that 2 cores (4 at most) and by the time they do, that GFX card will be 3 years out of date anyway. Most of the latest games are GPU restrained, not CPU.

If you really WANT a Mac... I would spend $600 less on a PC than you were planning to spend on the Mac Pro, and hook in a Mac Mini into the screen to try out OS X.

02-11-2008, 04:38 PM

What I don't get is, if the Mac OS supports the 8800gt - why were the previous Mac Pro users unable to upgrade to a 8800GT to lengthen the life if their machines?

It's cards - slots and drivers. What am I missing?

02-12-2008, 02:43 AM

Originally Posted by brucealeg

What I don't get is, if the Mac OS supports the 8800gt - why were the previous Mac Pro users unable to upgrade to a 8800GT to lengthen the life if their machines?

It's cards - slots and drivers. What am I missing?

The 8800 GT's has an EF164 driver in its ROM, whereas the older 2006/7 Mac Pro's require a 32-bit one. This according to Barefeats:http://www.barefeats.com/york2.html

They also say they've heard rumors that Apple is working on an upgraded 8800 GT kit that would work with the older MAC PRO's.

While it's true that the Mac Pro is not the best deal for gaming, I just bought a Mac Pro instead of an iMac because of the lousy graphics card in the iMac. I opted for the 8800GT and the single 2.8 quad. Eight cores does not improve gaming performance but a better GPU sure does! This goes to show that some people, although not gamers, want a better graphics card in the iMac. As a previous poster has said - heat issues limit graphic card choices. The current graphics card (HD 2600 pro) is passively cooled to make it quiet.

02-12-2008, 01:06 PM

I actually disagree a little, for the price the system is as stout a machine as anything Alienware is doing - minus the GPU. I get that they aren't focused on games, but gamers are interested them. I am all for buying a Mac Pro for video editing and bootcamping into XP for games. Assuming bootcamp overhead doesn't kill XP performance.

All thats needed here are the video cards. If Apple adds a 8800GTX to the line and keeps that one high end card; while offering it to previous gen owners so they aren't obsolete in a year - they would have a slam dunk product without directly having to support games.

Just my two cents. I think they can have it both ways. I am still considering a Mac Pro, but I am scared about being victimized in a year.