08-15-2007, 10:53 AM

I was on another forum having this discussion.

Most every mac person on that forum would use the fact that since iLife was bundled with OS X, that it made OS X that much of a better value over windows, with the counter point that most of the stuff that iLife does, Vista is now capable of doing.

I stated several post with this sentiment:

iLife is over-rated.

It's great for most of your computing/creativity challenged individuals, but for most people on a computer forum, it's not something that you can argue makes OS X that much better of an operating system. Granted, I haven't touched '08 and the only way it will get installed on my system is if I some how end up with it for free, but so far my new version of iLife includes Adobe CS3, Light Room, Logic, and Toast. I don't do video editing so I haven't touched the Movie software.

I find that the previous version of iLife is clunky and that if you want to use certain apps, like iWeb, it requires you to use something like iPhoto for the pictures. Garageband is even pretty much useless to me since I use Logic to record. I've opened it once to add one of it's sound effects to a song.

And it's no secret that I despise iPhoto. I'm used to knowing exactly where my photos are at on a drive and like them being labeled and not buried under a layer of folders and tagged as Roll1, Roll2, etc... Light Room has done all that plus has the added advantage of processing and editing the photos as well as great orginization schemes.

The only problem this poses to your average user is price. That software is not cheap. All that software together is really really not cheap. But the question is this: If price was not an issue, are there actually any OS X users that would prefer the simplicity and sometimes limiting programs of iLife other using more custom and advanced apps like Adobe software?

08-15-2007, 11:26 AM

iLife isnt included in mac osx it is a suite of programmes made by apple which comes with every mac

08-15-2007, 11:33 AM

Number a) The applications you listed as being better values for the job that they do are very unlikely to be used and/or grasped by the average owner of a Mac. I use Photoshop CS3 for editing my images, and work with the invidual files on the Mac filesystem with either finder, or with the command line. For audio work I use Audacity. I, however, am not the average user. I spent quite a lot of time with Photoshop and it took me quite awhile before I even got close to doing useful things with it.

Number b) you would be amazed (I certainly am) at the number of people who cannot (or refuse to) grasp the concept of moving/copying/dragging/dropping files around places. This is one of the reasons people like iTunes as opposed to having a digital audio player which utilizes the filesystem and dragging/dropping. My mother had an audio player which showed up on her desktop when she plugged it in. I tried to explain to her the concept of taking a bunch of her music files over here; then dragging them over to the music player icon. She didn't get it. She's a smart woman, it was just very difficult for her to visualize the concept. I got her an iPod, showed her how iTunes works, and she was able to get music on her player. The integrated concept of 'iTunes owns all of the music files' on a computer works for her, and it's the same concepts for most of the iApps. iPhoto handles your pictures, iWeb makes your web page go, iDVD makes it so you can make consumer-dvd-player DVDs from your videos, and iMovie allowes you to make these movies.

I don't use most of them much like you. Though I did make a couple of little movies with iMovie, and it was remarkably easy, but video editing isn't something I do a lot. For the vast majority of Mac users, however, they'll be perfectly happy to let iPhoto, iTunes, etc. do the grunt work of managing their digital 'stuff' without having the overhead of bothering with such esoterica as where they are physically located on the disk. Therefore, the iLife apps do have value.

To the 'power user' they don't but then we go out and seek out the applications that are going to work for us, and have the knowledge necessary to use them. The iLife suite removes quite a bit of the need for such knowledge.

08-15-2007, 11:54 AM

You know what I like about OS X? One version and not five different versions that vary in content and price.

08-15-2007, 12:50 PM

I guess it all depends on your level of use and what you intend to get out of it.

I just got my new iMac last week as a replacement for my home PC....all I do is surf, email, pictures, music, videos, the occasional document, burn CD's and DVD's, manage my webspace.....that's it really, and the iMac with iLife08 does it beautifully and simply. Exactly what I was looking for, exactly what I needed in a beautiful machine that screams and "just works"....I spend my whole day solving very complex issues on high end servers...I want my personal system to be simple, just work, and I don't have to think much to use it.

I'm not a power user by any definition, but I'm certainly not "computing/creativity challenged" and it's not what I bought the machine for. If I were a professional photographer, professional musician, web developer, etc....or even just a very "serious" hobbiest, then the iLife08 suite would probably not meet my needs, as it sounds like it does not meet yours. Use the right tool for the job is always good advice, rather than slam the screwdriver when you needed a hammer.

08-15-2007, 01:40 PM

You, a professional user, belittling an amateur set of applications? Whodathunkit?

Dude, of course you see it as over-rated, you're used to professional grade applications. But you know what? The vast majority of people don't, and think that iLife is the best thing since sliced bread. So for them, it's a GREAT value that puts Macs way ahead of Windows.

Oh, and here's the dirty little secret. Once you become hooked to the basic applications, you'll eventually upgrade to the Pro applications that cost significant money. So iLife is simply the "gateway drug" to applications like Logic and Aperture. I bet having iLife installed on all new Macs doesn't sound so stupid now, does it?

08-15-2007, 01:40 PM

I don't need all the features of Lightroom, I already have iPhoto, and I know how to use it. Nor do I need Logic, when GarageBand is fine for me. Sure, I will eventually get Final Cut Express, but for basic stuff iMovie does for now. iWeb I don't really use because I write web pages in source code, and sure iDVD is no good if I want to sell a movie, but it is good enough for just putting random movies onto to watch on the TV.

Most people don't need all the features of the advanced software, not to mention the price tag, and most of the time it is harder to use.

08-15-2007, 01:42 PM

This is soemthing I've struggled with, I really like the ease of use of the programs. But I also enjoy the more powerful alternatives. Specifically when it comes to iPhoto, I to like to know where all my photos are on the disk. So it's tough to use that program when I don't know where all my photos are going.

08-15-2007, 05:38 PM

I like iLife. As soon as I'm sure my MacBook works properly again (ref thread), I'll get iLife '08.

I'm a programmer. At the moment I'm running a program that distributes processing across five CPUs (the number of which I can vary on demand), will run 50,000 iterations, and will complete in about 84 hours. (I've already processed 150,000 with good results, hence the additional 50k.) I've hacked Linux kernels in the past and have written my own automated backup routines. I don't need to fight with my computer all of the time.

Maybe there are better and more professional tools than what's in iLife, but I regularly use iPhoto and Garage Band, and I've used iWeb. I'm looking forward to using the .Mac Web Gallery.

Regarding the web, in August 2004 our family went to Australia. Yes I could have written/scripted routines to set up photo web pages, including the production of thumbnails and images sized for the web, but I didn't. iWeb and iPhoto made the difference between doing the web page or not.

08-15-2007, 07:01 PM

Yep, I like iLife also. Would love to have CS3, and I can afford it, but there's no way it's worth that kind of money for the things I do. And put CS3 on my wife's machine - hah - she wouldn't open it again after the first try with it.

Went and bought iLife 08 a couple days ago, $99 for a 5 license Family pack, just can't beat that price. For sure it's all and more than my wife needs. I could use maybe a little more functionality, but for the price, it's a great set of tools. And I don't even touch two of the apps included with it.

Am in a very high stress job, and when I come home to sit at my computer, sometimes easy is all I'm looking for

08-15-2007, 07:10 PM

I also think iLife is cool and we will be buying iLife 08 very soon now.

I think GarageBand itself is worth the price of the whole suite and from Jobs' presentation last week, I just might give the new iPhoto a try: before I refused to even touch it, I hated the way you lost control over your photos, the dupes, etc.! For image editing I use Photoshop but for my home photos, iPhoto might be interesting with the improvements they made in the app.

And just so that it is clear to anyone reading this thread: iLife does NOT come bundled with Mac OS X.

It is however part of the bundled software on new Macs. But it is a separate product from OS X.

When you want to get a newer iLife version, you have to buy the software or... buy a new Mac.

08-15-2007, 07:16 PM

If OSX and iLife does not satisfy you, why not ditch them and use XP or Vista? I will probably get flack for this, but all I see is people dissing OSX and iLife and whatever is connected with the Mac. If I felt that way, there would not be ONE Mac computer in this house. I have better things to do with my time then waste it with something I really don't like. That gets in the way of the real use for a computer, getting stuff done. I use what gets that job done for me the best, Fastest and the most enjoyable when doing it too. That last one is important to me. I hate walking around with a frown on my face all day.


Adobe software? I HATE premier with a Passion and yes, I have used it for years till I got a Mac with Final Cut. Sure that is not the iLife suite, but hey, it's Adobe Vs Apple software. I know premier very well, but at the end of the day would use Final Cut any day of the week. Photoshop is editing software and not a picture manager.

08-15-2007, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by dtravis7

If OSX and iLife does not satisfy you, why not ditch them and use XP or Vista? I will probably get flack for this, but all I see is people dissing OSX and iLife and whatever is connected with the Mac. If I felt that way, there would not be ONE Mac computer in this house. I have better things to do with my time then waste it with something I really don't like. That gets in the way of the real use for a computer, getting stuff done. I use what gets that job done for me the best, Fastest and the most enjoyable when doing it too. That last one is important to me. I hate walking around with a frown on my face all day.


Adobe software? I HATE premier with a Passion and yes, I have used it for years till I got a Mac with Final Cut. Sure that is not the iLife suite, but hey, it's Adobe Vs Apple software. I know premier very well, but at the end of the day would use Final Cut any day of the week. Photoshop is editing software and not a picture manager.

Exactly, dtravis. I think the OP is belittling a lot of users out there. It's like a Formula 1 driver thinking all those that buy Ford cars are idiots and don't know any better. Perhaps they can't afford a Mercedes or a Ferrari?

08-15-2007, 08:50 PM

MHC, I totally agree that I hated iphoto 06 with the way it handled my pictures. But iphoto 08 is actually useful and is definitely worth the money. I'm happy Apple made iphoto more useful. I also like the new version of iWork. But hey, I bet that's another software suite that's too "basic" for the OP...

08-15-2007, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by dtravis7

If OSX and iLife does not satisfy you, why not ditch them and use XP or Vista?

OS X is more than iLife...at least it must be, because I don't think that I would own a mac if the only program available was iLife. This isn't a Windows vs. OS X thread. I was merely asking who would use programs that give you greater control over the final product vs. iLife's integration if price were not an issue.

Originally Posted by MacHeadCase

Exactly, dtravis. I think the OP is belittling a lot of users out there. It's like a Formula 1 driver thinking all those that buy Ford cars are idiots and don't know any better. Perhaps they can't afford a Mercedes or a Ferrari?

See above.

I don't believe that people that use iLife are idiots, I was just stating that the way some of the programs handle files and such is kind of screwy if you're using files and such other than in the programs. I also stated that I have not used iLife 08. But with using iPhoto and iWeb and garage band and such, that they're just not usefull if you want to use them for anything more than basic purposes. You can build some nice web sites with iWeb, but you have to use iPhoto for the pictures and if you want to do anything really advanced, it's not the tool for it, something like Dreamweaver would be better suited for that.

iPhoto would put all my pictures in to roll folders that were named "Roll1", "Roll2", etc...and if you wanted to use photoshop to edit them, then it would be like a scavenger hunt trying to find the right picture.

I also own a studio. We do graphic design, recording, and videography. iLife just doesn't cut it for that...

But if you had a choice between iLife and a set of programs like CS3, Final Cut, and Logic and money wasn't an option, then what would you go with.

I too work in an IT department all day, and when I come home, I'm also not in a mood to mess with stuff and want everything to be easy, that's why I prefer to catalouge my own files so I know where they are and have programs that will do exactly what I want them too.

I did also