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Switcher Hangout The place for switchers to discuss their new machines, and how to work with OS X. General support can be had here for newbie stuff, like "How do I restart my new iMac?" :)

New to the iMac...pretty underwhelmed with it


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Turbo

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaidomac
jgohlke, I hear you loud and clear. A few things to point out first, though: your old Gateway probably had software designed for it at the time, such as Word 97 (Word 97 runs wicked fast on my 2ghz Athlon!). As was pointed out, Office isn't a Universal Binary yet. I bought it for my wife's iMac and I know what you mean about "underwhelmed". I use Adobe CS and Office a lot in my work and I'm way too hesitant about completely switching based on current performance. Office not only takes forever to load on my wife's 2ghz Core Duo, but it's also slow in typing to boot. I know what you mean!

I think what Apple means about "intuitive" is "intuitive for computer geeks". It's still too complex for, say, my grandma to pick up without my tutoring. Personally I love the concept of OS X, having a strong Windows background with some Linux mixed in there, but I'm not ready to make a full switch yet either. I almost gave in and bought a MacBook Pro today, but I got hit with sticker shock: $2,600 for a top-end 15.4" laptop WITH my student discount. The PC I've been planning on building totals about $1,600 and whips the MacBook Pro performance-wise. For me, now is not the right time to make a full switch, especially with the UB transition that is currently happening.

Are you planning on sticking it out with a Mac or are you going to jump back into the PC world? I think as time progresses you'll find that you like OS X more and more, especially as more Universal software is released. At first I was just playing with OS X on my old G4 Cube, then it annoyed me, and now it's growing on me. I'm still much faster in Windows and know the ins and outs much better, but I can see myself becoming immersed in OS X within a year or two. Hey, if it doesn't work out, shoot me a PM and we'll talk PC shop
Who would ever guess that you can build a real nice fast pc for under the cost of a fast notebook? Don't understand how you can compare a notebook to a pc. You gonna lug that loud clunker with you everywhere?

To the OP:
Do you still just have the 512 ram in your imac? I would say that is ridiculous, I wouldn't ever get less then 1 gig in any computer. And all this talk about word being fast confuses me, I bought word just so my gf would be able to do her work on my mac. I don't see how it is slow at all, it is a WORD PROCESSOR. I know the word on my new iMac runs just the same as the word on my four year old pc. Who cares if word runs fast? It isn't some kind of video game. I do understand and losing MS money, I loved having that on my pc. I know when I sold my pc I would lose money, and I had to deal with that. I haven't bought quicken and I never plan on it, I have read mostly horrible reviews on it. So, I keep a good estimate of my balance in my head, and I call one bank on the automated system and get my balance about every 3 days, and the other bank I use has online banking, I hop on there every few days and make sure my balance is what I thought.
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jgohlke

 
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My son also thinks the iMac is slow. His notebook "feels" faster. He just walked in and offered that it's a G4. BTW I'm typing this on the iMac using Camino.

When I say MS Word is "slow"....I can outtype it. In other words, I'm typing along....and look up. The screen display is about 1/2 sentence behind. I stop and wait...and wait...and then the letters appear. Basically the computer isn't doing anything other than echoing my typing to the screen and it can't keep up. Clearly this isn't the iMac's fault entirely...but still.

Appreciate the help and suggestions...I'll check the O'Reilly book out.

It's Saturday morning here and we're off to SCUBA dive!
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Kyomii

 
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Hi there!

You need more RAM - definately, and then you will see an improvement, especially if you put 2 GB in

The slow problems with word etc are emulation issues, I have just got the new intel Mac Mini dual core and I can tell you that Safari and the like run slow compared to my old 1.25Ghz ppc mini.

Safari is so slow, that I gave up and used Firefox - you would think that Apple would have at least made it's own browser universal by now

Put more memory in and you will see a difference, and when the progams that run under emulation come out in universal - you will also see a big difference

As for finding things, most things are in the applications folder - just click on finder, and applications. System applications such as Terminal for example, are usually in applications > utilities, which makes sense.

Also, if you have any trouble finding anything, then use spotlight in the top right corner - very, very fast at searching!

Stick with it, when I first got a Mac almost three years ago, for 6 months I was doubting - I also thought that osx was very basic and no way could I compute with so little programs, and I too wondered where everything was.

However, I stuck with it, using it a little everyday and finding out little things from the Mac osx help (click on finder help at the top bar without anything loaded and have a read ).

As time went on, I began to see how "intuitive" Mac osx is. I mean, installing something most of the time is as simple as drag and drop - same for uninstalling. No registry to mess up too

That big ol' Apple bug did not bite me right away like it does with many, it bit months later after much persistance, but once it did, it bit with a vengeance, and there is no way I would ever build a Windows system again.

Have patience with it, remember it is a whole new learning curve, and a whole new way of doing things.

The more you use it, the more you will become accustomed to it, and don't forget, add more memory, because 512MB does not do the system justice, and, IMHO, will cause a bottleneck in some instances.

Fondest regards, Kyomii

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b.hicks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgohlke
My son also thinks the iMac is slow. His notebook "feels" faster. He just walked in and offered that it's a G4. BTW I'm typing this on the iMac using Camino.

When I say MS Word is "slow"....I can outtype it. In other words, I'm typing along....and look up. The screen display is about 1/2 sentence behind. I stop and wait...and wait...and then the letters appear. Basically the computer isn't doing anything other than echoing my typing to the screen and it can't keep up. Clearly this isn't the iMac's fault entirely...but still.

Appreciate the help and suggestions...I'll check the O'Reilly book out.

It's Saturday morning here and we're off to SCUBA dive!
I also find MS Office to be a little slow when typing. I have a Macbook Pro with 1gb of ram, and I can outtype MS word, but not to the extent your talking about. I type about 50wpm and MS Word is uausally a word of two behind at most. When I stop typing, Word catches up in a fraction of a second. I have taken to using Pages, part of iWork06 and couldn't outtype it if my life depended on it, so I suspect the problem is, Word is not universal binary. If you try Pages, and find you can outtype that, I would suggest you might have a hardware issue.

Sorry to hear about your poor introduction to OS X. I am also new to Apple. The Macbook is my first Mac. I have always been a windows user and bought the macbook so I could use windows and learn OS X. It took me a couple of weeks to get used to OS X, but now that I have been using it for a month and a bit, I'll never go back to windows. Stick with it and I think it will grow on you.

Anyway. Welcome.
Brian.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyomii
Safari is so slow, that I gave up and used Firefox - you would think that Apple would have at least made it's own browser universal by now
I did a little checking and found that Safari is a universal app. I think that if you open the Info panel for it, you can set it to run in native Intel mode, or under Rosetta as a PPC app.

Some people have set it to use Rosetta because some plugins are not yet Universal.

Apple has a page for listing available universal apps. You can even search for non Apple apps.

http://guide.apple.com/universal/

Enter apple & safari in the search box.
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Kyomii

 
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Ahh, thanks for that, when I got this Mac it would only run under Rosetta for some reason - it must have required the update perhaps?

Anyway I unticked run under rosetta mode, so running under intel now, and will see how it goes.

Fondest regards, Kyomii

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For the very reasons listed above, I have just purchased a new Power Mac G5 - all of that rich Mac OS X goodness, but at lightning speed. The problem with the new Intel Macs is that the software won't have caught up with them for about a year. If you want to experience Mac OS X and all the available applications at the full tilt they are meant for, get a Power Mac G5 while they are still available (rumor has it that they are about to be replaced with Intel Core 2 Duo versions (Core 2 Duo is the marketing name for the new Intel Conroe dual core desktop processor). By the way, I am a "switcher" - this is my first Mac. So I did not go with a PowerPC (PPC) based Mac out of some misplaced Mac "religion", but rather out of reasoning through what I wanted from the machine.

You might pause about buying "dead ended hardware" but you shouldn't. Once you have bought ANY hardware it is effectively dead ended for you. In general, you can't upgrade it - you have to buy new hardware (i.e. a new Mac) to get anything newer or faster. Yes, you can add more RAM, or a bigger disk, but you can only go so far. The CPU defines the envelope, and it isn't upgradable. So, if the G5 meets your needs now, it is a good buy.

What makes buying a PPC based Mac at this point a whole lot smarter than it might seem at first blush though is that ALL of the software available in the current Mac universe runs on it at full speed. And you won't be left out of new software either. The rush now is to build Universal Binaries (UB) for all existing and new software. The UBs run on both the PowerPC chips and the Intel chips. So, for years and years to come, you will be able to get all the new software your heart desires for your Power Mac. EVENTUALLY, manufacturers will cease to release new PPC versions of their software, but that will be many years away, well beyond the intended lifetime of the average computer. I understand that it was 5-6 years after Apple switched from Motorola to PPC before Motorola apps generally ceased to be marketed.

My advice: if you want a Mac now, get a G5. If that doesn't work for you, I would recommend waiting about a year until such key applications as Microsoft Office and Photoshop come out as Universal Binaries. In the interim, as the above thread amply demonstrates, the PPC versions under Rosetta on a new Intel machine can be unusably slow.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mac57
You might pause about buying "dead ended hardware" but you shouldn't. Once you have bought ANY hardware it is effectively dead ended for you. In general, you can't upgrade it - you have to buy new hardware (i.e. a new Mac) to get anything newer or faster. Yes, you can add more RAM, or a bigger disk, but you can only go so far. The CPU defines the envelope, and it isn't upgradable.
Wait, who says it is not upgradable? There may be no upgrades available now, but that doesn't mean there won't be in the future. Some G5s may not be upgradable (the iMac for example) but most of the PowerMac G5's are in sockets that allow them to be removed. I upgraded the **** out of my G4 including the CPU and it lasted about 6 years.

Be careful when making claims that things are not upgradable because they very well may be and you just don't know it.


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What you need, mr. gohlke, is a true mac WOW experience.

Basically, you've been thrown out there into a mac world without really knowing the benefits. The "hype" you talk about isn't really a hype, it's more of a simple truth.

The Intel iMacs have the fasest Intel Dual Core processors out there right now.
But Macs usually lag because of one other thing: RAM.
I have a G5 iMac and 512 RAM, and I can clearly make out that the processor is nice and fast (when encoding DVDs etc) but I don't have enough RAM yet because sometimes when I run large Apps like MS Office, Safari, iTunes, iPhoto and Logic at the same time, things go to a crawl.

You shpuld find out hwy you can value the mac Interface so much. For starters:

- The mac GUI doesn't maximize windows. It zooms them. You will find this awkward, but Macs just size the window so can get all the information you need, rather than blowing it up in your face. You then always have acces to the desktop, and to other windows beneath it. Once you get used to navigating this way, you'll find the windows (or gnome, or KDE) taskbar a pain in the a.

- Open some windows. Press F10. Then press F11. You now know how to move windows away to access the desktop - and you know how to explode your windows to see which one you want right now. Works with the Apple Mighty Mouse Ball too.

- Mouse: You don't like the mighty mouse - well many people don't, but you do know this is a two-button mouse? Infact a 4-button mouse. Try the ball, try it sideways.

- Take that little remote and press the menu button. Now see that. Sit with your family and watch a slideshow you prepared in iphoto using frontrow. Or watch a DVD. or check the latest movie trailers. Don't have any music on you computer? Just use your son's Laptop iTunes library, it'll connect automatically with your iMac, and is available in font row.

- As for Quicken: It is a market leader in this software, and takes getting used to. Money is great software, But Quicken is more flexible, and more professional - I concur that money has a more family household cash type of approach, but Quicken will give you mroe hard data and more advanced features you might need someday. If you want something even simpler than that there are lot of programs out there, like Moneybox or Moneydance, but Quicken is best for U.S. citizens.

You see, basically I feel you are the functionality type. I don't know if you noticed, but the Mac definitely looks better and more inviting than your PC. That's one bying reason for a lot of mac users. A big one.
Use it with your iPod. Try making something with iLife. You'll see, a mac is better at being productive creatively.

Somehow you seem to be saying that a mac is not capable of the things a pc can do.
You have used only Quicken and Office. Try Pages instead of Word if you want to publish a document. It simplifies Word a lot and has incredibly stylish templates. It's great if you don't want to format thing to the milimeter by yourself.

Oh, did you press F12 yet?

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Finally, some truth in the Rosetta emulation issue that is not being spieled by a salesman

I have never found MS Office slow on both my Macs, specs in my sig. I use Word and Excel all the time at home and at work and find them absolutely fine. That said, for years I was using Word 5 as Word 6 and 98 were just like running a Windows application... (Kinda because that was exactly what was happening under the hood...)

I have used a few Intel based Macs now and for native Intel applications it works very nicely and they seem good, fast, robust machines. The downside was emulated apps, reminded me of what my Power Mac G4 was like before I upgraded it when it was still a 256MB 466MHz relic :flower: The point of the matter has always been that Apple's Rosetta technology was never going to be faster than the other JIT PPC recompilers on the market, and that sadly is not particularly fast.

For this reason, I would not be surpised if Apple keeps the Power Mac line running until Adobe CS3 is released, though still release the new Intel "Mac Pro's" this Autumn but have at least one or two model PowerMac G5s to tide those who need speed in major apps.

Either way—RAM. The more RAM your iMac has to emulate PPC code via Rosetta, the better. 1GB should be your minimum. Anything less and you will start to choke the poor thing.

And as for the Windows and Mac OS X learning curve, yes I can quite see why. It's different isn't it? And here's a secret—I struggled at first. However, the key thing to have in your mind is that Mac OS X is not Windows, nor Linux and vice versa. Stupid statement of the year that may well be, but it must be remembered that Apple is not in the business of making a version of Windows that runs on Macs but with a different UI.

Mac OS X is about a different way of working, a different paradigm of thought. You can see this in how the thing functions. It has a set of robust graphical file management tools in the Finder, a Macintosh strength since day 1. A lot of menu items are also recalled by their shortcut such as Cmd (Apple) + Shift + A = open the applications folder, Command + K = Connect to Server etc.

A lot of this shortcut business stems from the people who use Macs who like shortcut keys, desktop publishers especially.

In the end I warmed to Mac OS X, and I mean really warmed to it. I came from Mac OS 9 and for a little while I had a Dell notebook with Windows XP and it was definitely a step up when I realised that I am not spending time waiting for virus and spyware scans, nor does the computer do this strange freeze for long moments with no explanation thing, networking seems to just work (although networking with Windows can be trying at first).

There are so many things that Mac OS X does excel at, and likewise some things that Windows excels at. I found the warming period to be much more gradual and gentle. After a couple of months, sitting in front of a Windows machine tries my patience as simple tasks like browsing network shares seems to lock just about any PC I use at work for a few minutes a piece, or plentiful non responding applications, the Internet connection somehow loosing itself etMay you will come around to it too, but the key is not to think too much of "Now I do it like this in Windows so in Mac OS X I do it like..."—start afresh.

Oh and as for the supplied mouse, I expect that would be the 'Mighty Mouse'—for the record, I hate that thing too! I stick to a two button corded MS mouse for my notebook and an old Apple Optical pro mouse (the black one) which is solid and has a nice adjustable click stiffness. They keyboard however I admit—I love it. A very tactile feedback when I am working in InDesign.

Good luck with it all, stick with it and see how things go! :flower:

Vicky
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Very well put Vicky.
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I really appreciate everyone's time and thoughtful answers. Very happy to see the high quality of responses and not one flame or threadjack.

I've pressed F12...A couple of times. I agree that the interface for the UI is very cool. We were impressed by the UI for MS Word as well. We all think the Mac does a better job of creating and presenting the computer-to-human interface. We expected some learning curve.

I just looked for and found (all by myself) the system display where I confirmed that our iMac has 512MB of memory. We had thought about upgrading but weren't sure if it would help our problem. For sure, we'll be adding some memory. Thanks for the confirmation.

I got a chuckle out of the "mr gohlke" line...(I am 47, does it show?).

To be fair to the iMac, we don't own an iPod, haven't moved our digital camera off the PC and aren't really using it in a way where it could shine. My wife does use iTunes and I did buy her speakers (Logitech Z4). They sound pretty good and their look goes with the iMac. We are phasing ourselves to the mac.

My wife is thinking she wants an iPod, we'll probably move the camera over to the iMac....I think over time, we'll make it our family computer. Rather than have that big wow moment, it will be a gradual thing. That's ok.

I really just wanted confirmation that it wasn't us. We bought it from CompUSA and the salesman was all about the performance and how great it was (never mentioned "emulation")...a customer even stopped by and said they he had switched to a Mac about a year ago and he loved it, he'd never go back etc....my son loved his, factor in the price...well, you get the picture. It was a lot to live up to, we had many expectations (some of them probably unrealistic).

I guess we ended up being "early adopters" without realizing it. It's hard to realize that on the backend and not feel a little cheated. We've been early adopters before, but we always knew about it going in...it was our choice.

Like with many things YMMV..in this case, we didn't fall in the love with the Mac right away. We wondered why...Was it us? I've learned that it was us a little bit, but I think mostly it's the Intel iMac and I have hopes that as we get more used to it, the iMac will also become more mature with programs developed for its specific hardware. I guess we'll grow together.

Thanks to all,
Joe
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Well, first off..i think buying it at compUSa kinda sucks. Buying straight from apple you'll get straight up answers. Atleast i have, or if you go with someone that knows just a bit, they wont BS you around.

Ram id say is your problem. I bought the dual 1.8ghz, and it came with a lousy 256MB ram. I couldnt run ANYTHING. Id get iChat and office open, thats it. Threw a gig on top of that, **** i have it render/encode several things at once while chatting/listening to iTunes. Honestly that first couple weeks my machine was so...lame.

Since your a UNIX guy, you might want to look into FINK. It allows you to compile linux apps on OSX. i have an older G3, and word is just to much for it. I used Open office on it awhile, but that was sluggish, so i just compiled it and it ran very smoothly.

I think you will grow to like it. My whole family is windows users, but theyre seeing after 1 year of running my mac 24/7 ive had no problems (minus 1 kernel panic) VS their windows boxes, mac was the nicer, less stressful way to go. Besides, when youve got a huge homework project due in a day, and you boot up your pc to find HEY your video card doesnt want to work anymore..or maybe windows is gonna not load ...you cant help but notice the shinny box that simply doesnt do that

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I think the most important thing to take out of this discussion is this:

Do not try to learn how to transition from your Windows PC to your Mac, but instead try to open yourself up and learn a new operating system. Leave behind your old habits and just poke around. Try something new. Instead of using the mouse, look up the keyboard shortcut for that task. Do you have anything repetitive you have to do? Make an automator workflow. Your Mac isn't a PC. A PC isn't a Mac. You just have to learn -- and open yourself up to things that are different

Edit: typo

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Pierre

 
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Accidental hit reply instead of 'edit' for my typo. My bad.

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