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Switcher Hangout The place for switchers to discuss their new machines, and how to work with OS X. General support can be had here for newbie stuff, like "How do I restart my new iMac?" :)

A good 'newb' question...or twelve...


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68Impala

 
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Member Since: Jun 24, 2013
Location: Norman, OK
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Mac Specs: Mac Pro 1,1; quad 2.66 processors, upgraded to 16GB Hynix RAM & 3.5TB internal hard drive space.

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Okay, so I'm an old(er) fart (53) and am a "Veteran Medicated For Your Safety" sort. (Well, I am a DV on pain meds...) I have a story and questions for someone that might be able to help me...might need a BIT of hand-holding here, as I can't (literally) hold onto info like I used to...

First, I own a 1996 Mac Pro 1,1, with the quad-core 2.66 Ghz processors. Came with 2GB RAM, which I upgraded immediately to 4 GB, and recently to 16GB. I'm also running OS 10.6.8. I also went from one 250GB hard drive to a current 3.5TB of internal HDD space. On to my current problem:

Recently, I had one of my two DVD/R drives go out, so I bought another to replace it. Didn't notice it was a SATA drive, so now I had to go out and get an IDE-SATA adaptor to get it to work.

On pulling the drive tray, I installed the adaptor, and subsequently found that both power cables to the drives were cracked and showing bare wire. Didn't look like any connections were compromised, so I electrical-taped the bare wires for safety and pushed the tray back in place. On boot-up, both drives showed power connectivity and worked when the tray release button was manually activated on each drive, which I checked before sliding the tray back into place.

Trouble now is that my computer won't recognize the 'original' IDE drive. Is that because of something to do with the difference between the connections of the two drive types (IDE/SATA)? That given, do I now have to find another SATA-compliant DVD/R drive? (I've already got 2 IDE-style burners and one player stacked up, and that 4GB of RAM I took out...stuff's piling up here!)

I'm also thinking seriously that since the power connectors to the drives were both 'compromised' that, at least internally, the IDE ribbon might be, so I went searching for a replacement - thinking that replacing the cable(s) while in there might be a good idea anyway.

CRA*!!! What a mistake THAT was! I found one place that had the same type cable (sans power cord connectors) for $25, and one guy on eBay with the ribbon cable/power cable 'assembly' ( looks identical to the one in my computer now ) for $18...everyone ELSE out there wants $40-$150 for one! And that's not even new or with the power connectors! AND, given that the plastic fan bay in front hides the other half of the power/IDE connections to the drives, I'm thinking now I'll have to take it to someone and pay them....grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.............

OK.......and we're breathing....and we're breathing....breathing....

Anyway: Will I have to change the old IDE drive for a SATA drive as well now? And, if I can find a replacement ribbon/power cable assembly (922 7686 Apple Mac Pro Desktop A1186 2 8 3 0GH 8x DVD Data Power Cable is what showed up on eBay when I looked for a cable that matched exactly), is it going to be very difficult to change myself (given the fan bay obstruction)?

Now to the 'short hairs'. I never got out much before (heart trouble), but I also managed to break my back this past Friday. (What an exciting life I lead, no?) Given my wife teaches both H.S. and college courses, not only don't I get out of the house much, we're tapped as well.

***Sigh*** I don't suppose anyone would have a SATA DVD-CD/R burner and the cable I need in return for, say, some used 4GB of Mac Pro memory sticks? (8 ea, 512mb, DDR2 pc5300, matched pairs with Apple heatsinks). Heck, I'll even throw in one of the old IDE burners I've got! Come to my home (Norman, OK) and make the repairs here, and I'll throw in a MacBook G4 (sans power cord) I can't use, too!

I truly don't mean to sound whiny, but my Mac is my 'link' in very many ways, now more than before, and I can't afford to take it to a repair station OR buy any more 'new' parts for awhile! Any good advice / help I can get (if possible) is already gratefully appreciated, believe me.

Anyway, thanks in advance. Truly.

Chuck
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mrplow

 
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The data part of the cable is a standard 40 pin IDE cable. This can be bought for a couple of dollars. A PC repair shop etc may even just give you one if you ask. I used to end up with loads when building PCs because every mainboard came with a couple. If it wasn't so expensive to send stuff to the US (I'm guessing that's where you are) I'd send you one.

The clash between IDE and SATA, especially when using a converter is down to the jumpers on the back of the drives. When dealing with 'true' sata cables/connections it's not really an issues but with IDE the position on the cable and the jumper setting is all important. The IDE drive you have 'disappears' because the new ide/sata connection is likely using the same interrupt/address as your existing drive.

You'll need to change the jumpers on the rear of the optical drives.
Change the one at the end of the cable to Master (black connector). Set the other to slave (grey connector).

External hard disk acquisition addict - but admitting the problem is the first step to a robust backup

Please use the reputation system if you think you've been helped - top right of this post
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harryb2448

 
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Old? AT 53? Goodness gracious you are sdtill a kid.

No 1996 Mac Pros so guess you mean 2006 Mac Pro 1.1? They use SATA drives not IDE so don't try that IDE/SATA thing. Mac Pro 1.1 use an ATAPI optical drive, which is IDE. Makes it confusing doesn't it? Memory for older machines is dear. Make sure any memory you buy is Mac compatible. There is a huge difference between low and high density modules. here are the specs for the memory you will need:-

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other.../53FB1MPK02GB/

Hang on to those original install discs like grim death! Using OS X.7 or later make a bootable USB thumb drive before running Installer!
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68Impala

 
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Member Since: Jun 24, 2013
Location: Norman, OK
Posts: 6
68Impala is on a distinguished road
Mac Specs: Mac Pro 1,1; quad 2.66 processors, upgraded to 16GB Hynix RAM & 3.5TB internal hard drive space.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrplow View Post
The data part of the cable is a standard 40 pin IDE cable. This can be bought for a couple of dollars. A PC repair shop etc may even just give you one if you ask. I used to end up with loads when building PCs because every mainboard came with a couple. If it wasn't so expensive to send stuff to the US (I'm guessing that's where you are) I'd send you one.

The clash between IDE and SATA, especially when using a converter is down to the jumpers on the back of the drives. When dealing with 'true' sata cables/connections it's not really an issues but with IDE the position on the cable and the jumper setting is all important. The IDE drive you have 'disappears' because the new ide/sata connection is likely using the same interrupt/address as your existing drive.

You'll need to change the jumpers on the rear of the optical drives.
Change the one at the end of the cable to Master (black connector). Set the other to slave (grey connector).

Thanks for the tips! I've just splashed on a new combo cable on ePray just because I found the money ($15 w/shipping), but the master/slave question is puzzling me. The SATA drive has no such jumper; when I tried moving the jumper on the IDE drive between all three positions, nothing happened; computer didn't / doesn't recognize the old drive...which is why I went and got the cable just in case.

I'm open to any other ideas you have, though! I've powered up and down 11 times to check connections and to move the jumper to each of the 3 positions, but to no avail yet. Both still get power, but only the 'new' drive with the adaptor is being read and working.

Cheers,
Chuck
(P.S. 4 years stationed at RAF Upper Heyford, Oxon: 1979-'83 - Best years of my service!)
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68Impala

 
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Member Since: Jun 24, 2013
Location: Norman, OK
Posts: 6
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Mac Specs: Mac Pro 1,1; quad 2.66 processors, upgraded to 16GB Hynix RAM & 3.5TB internal hard drive space.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by harryb2448 View Post
Old? AT 53? Goodness gracious you are sdtill a kid.

No 1996 Mac Pros so guess you mean 2006 Mac Pro 1.1? They use SATA drives not IDE so don't try that IDE/SATA thing. Mac Pro 1.1 use an ATAPI optical drive, which is IDE. Makes it confusing doesn't it? Memory for older machines is dear. Make sure any memory you buy is Mac compatible. There is a huge difference between low and high density modules. here are the specs for the memory you will need:-

OWC 53FB1MPK02GB 2.0GB Mac Pro Memory Matched Pair... in stock at OWC
Yup...MP 1,1, all right. I did more-than-due-dilligence for about 2 years before I finally dove in and bought two 8GB kits of Hynix RAM from a major online outfit, and it's working a treat. I made sure that, for this kind of $$$, it was fully-buffered, compatible in all aspects, and properly heat-sinked. So far, it's not only running better, but about 12 degrees cooler than the 'old' RAM.

The problems have surfaced SINCE I started using the new drive, with the IDE-to-SATA interface. It works just like any other adapter between a device and a cord, and it seems to be working great so far...it's just 'preempted' my other, older IDE drive. (I got two of the adapters from the same online store via Amazon, for about $11 for the pair...I guess one will be a backup! It says: "PATA to SATA Adapter, #7317 LK-13415 P/N 863B It plugs into/onto the drive, and has ports on the other side to plug the IDE ribbon and power cord into. As I said, so far IT works a treat.)

I'm just beginning to think I'm now going to have to find ANOTHER SATA drive; maybe I can trade my used RAM and old burner for that one, eh?
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mrplow

 
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Member Since: Oct 01, 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68Impala View Post
Thanks for the tips! I've just splashed on a new combo cable on ePray just because I found the money ($15 w/shipping), but the master/slave question is puzzling me. The SATA drive has no such jumper; when I tried moving the jumper on the IDE drive between all three positions, nothing happened; computer didn't / doesn't recognize the old drive...which is why I went and got the cable just in case.

I'm open to any other ideas you have, though! I've powered up and down 11 times to check connections and to move the jumper to each of the 3 positions, but to no avail yet. Both still get power, but only the 'new' drive with the adaptor is being read and working.

Cheers,
Chuck
(P.S. 4 years stationed at RAF Upper Heyford, Oxon: 1979-'83 - Best years of my service!)
Wow, small world. At that time I was living near Abingdon just south of Oxford!

Do the drives work in isolation? I.e. just have one connected?

External hard disk acquisition addict - but admitting the problem is the first step to a robust backup

Please use the reputation system if you think you've been helped - top right of this post
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68Impala

 
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Member Since: Jun 24, 2013
Location: Norman, OK
Posts: 6
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Mac Specs: Mac Pro 1,1; quad 2.66 processors, upgraded to 16GB Hynix RAM & 3.5TB internal hard drive space.

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Originally Posted by mrplow View Post
Wow, small world. At that time I was living near Abingdon just south of Oxford!

Do the drives work in isolation? I.e. just have one connected?
Yep...each drive works if isolated; connected together, only the SATA drive works. Makes me think that I will have to have another SATA drive to make this work - for some reason, the SATA drive might have faster 'access time'...?!?!?!???

Funny about where we were...I ran the mail run from RAFUH to Abingdon more than a few times...!
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mrplow

 
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I still think they're sharing an address. You could try another sata connection on the logic board if there is one. If not, I think you're right. You're going to need a second sata drive. Although you could ask yourself if you really need two optical drives?

External hard disk acquisition addict - but admitting the problem is the first step to a robust backup

Please use the reputation system if you think you've been helped - top right of this post
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68Impala

 
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Member Since: Jun 24, 2013
Location: Norman, OK
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Mac Specs: Mac Pro 1,1; quad 2.66 processors, upgraded to 16GB Hynix RAM & 3.5TB internal hard drive space.

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Originally Posted by mrplow View Post
I still think they're sharing an address. You could try another sata connection on the logic board if there is one. If not, I think you're right. You're going to need a second sata drive. Although you could ask yourself if you really need two optical drives?
Hey!

In all the time I've had my MP, I've only used both drives at once, once. For me, it's just the principle of the thing: if I have it, it should be able to work, y'know?

I wouldn't know what to plug into without a road map, to be honest with you. Besides, on the pain meds I'm on now, I'm not sure I'd trust me just now with electrical items...! I'd like to be able to just get a cheapie connector and plug the old(er) drive in and be able to use both for the time being...but the wife and I are BOTH tired of replacing stuff only to find something else needing it, y'know?

I know, I know...the vagaries of an older computer... *** sigh *** At least it's not a PC! Seriously, if there were an IDE-to-USB adaptor, I could keep the drive where it's at and plug it into an internal USB port I have; that'd be okay till I need to replace that drive. I have other things that require the money I don't have, y'know?

I'm currently trying to barter off the 4GB of Apple/Crucial RAM I had in my MP1,1 for a pair of Xeon X5355/5365 processors and a larger video card (either an NVIDIA GeForce 8800GT - 512MB; a GeForce 7500LE, or even the 1GB ATI Radeon HD 4870 GDDR5 PCIe card; if I can do a barter/cash thing I could probably work on that, too. I know, "wish in one hand...."!
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harryb2448

 
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Something like this maybe? USB3 is backwards compatible with USB2.

USB 3 0 2 0 TO 2 5 3 5 5 25 IDE Sata Hard Drive HDD SDD Converter Adapter Cable | eBay

In my Mac Pro days, June 2012, updated a 1.1 to the Quad X5365 processors with a flashed ATI Radeon HD 4870 1GB card. With an SSD and 16GB memory very capable machine. Alas being left behind by Apple with that darned 342bit firmware.

Hang on to those original install discs like grim death! Using OS X.7 or later make a bootable USB thumb drive before running Installer!
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68Impala

 
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Member Since: Jun 24, 2013
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Mac Specs: Mac Pro 1,1; quad 2.66 processors, upgraded to 16GB Hynix RAM & 3.5TB internal hard drive space.

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Originally Posted by harryb2448 View Post
Something like this maybe? USB3 is backwards compatible with USB2.

USB 3 0 2 0 TO 2 5 3 5 5 25 IDE Sata Hard Drive HDD SDD Converter Adapter Cable | eBay

In my Mac Pro days, June 2012, updated a 1.1 to the Quad X5365 processors with a flashed ATI Radeon HD 4870 1GB card. With an SSD and 16GB memory very capable machine. Alas being left behind by Apple with that darned 342bit firmware.
...it sounds as if you've done exactly what I want to do, save I don't have the ability at present to do so (lack of funds, painkillers, you know the drill...hahaha)! After I have what I want (now) done, I hope I'll be able to move up to an equivalent HDD size in SSD's (if they ever come down in price, that is...) and I can upgrade to them as well! I should be able to get to 2025 or so with that setup!

And on the converter, yup, that looks like it'd do the trick quite nicely, thankyouverymuch. Then again for that money, I could also get another CD/DVD burner, but I do appreciate the flexibility such a doohickey gives you.

On the "Alas..." part: I was a motor-pool NCO in my military days, and even with 3 college degrees since I don't understand the "...firmware..." comment. What are you now using that you were "left behind"? Just curious, mate...

Thanks again - you're a great source of information, and I'm enjoying both learning and conversing! (Especially during my military days, I've always wanted to visit Oz. Still do...)
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