03-21-2012, 04:07 PM

Hello.

A friend of mine has brought his MacBook and iMac to me for repair. It seems that both may have bad hard drives. He has no DVDs for them. I've read the chart regarding Mac OS X versions on this forum. The chart says that I can download Lion for $29. With additional memory in the MacBook, I could install Lion. The iMac, however, has a 32 bit processor, so Lion wouldn't work. And I think I have to install Snow Leopard before installing Lion.

The only computer I have to download with is this PC. Perhaps I could burn Mac OS X to a DVD or perhaps I could download it onto a USB stick. Would the OS downloaded onto a PC and then saved to a USB stick or burnt to a DVD work on the Macs?

Perhaps the Apple store won't even allow a PC to download Mac OS X.

The other option is to purchase the DVDs. The chart says Snow Leopard is $29. But I haven't found it for that price.

I haven't played with Apple computers since the 2e days back in 1983. A friend of mine built the Apple 1 sometime in the early '70's. He later started a company building keyboards for the Mac.

Thanks,
Frank

03-21-2012, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by frankpc

A friend of mine has brought his MacBook and iMac to me for repair.

We need to know more specific model information for these computers before we can accurately suggest an OS to install.

Originally Posted by frankpc

The other option is to purchase the DVDs. The chart says Snow Leopard is $29. But I haven't found it for that price.

You must not have visited the most obvious source of the Snow Leopard 10.6 install DVD...Apple.com:

Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - Apple Store (U.S.)

- Nick

03-21-2012, 04:35 PM

Thank you so much Nick!!

Yes, I do see that ad at the Apple store. What confused me is that it said "upgrade" from Leopard to Snow Leopard. But evidently, the DVD you would end up with is a bootable DVD that could be used to install Snow Leopard on a blank HD correct? If that is the case, there is no reason to download stuff, etc. And it seems Snow Leopard at Amazon.com is more than $40. How can that be?

I have accumulated a lot of information on the two computers. The serial numbers for both Macs do yield the original specs for each one.

MacBook: Intel 2 GHz - core 2 duo, 80 GB HD, 13.3", No DVD writer, 1 GB memory. It had Tiger 10.4.x on it.
I believe that means it is 64 bit and Snow Leopard would work on it. Don't know if there is a reason to buy Lion for it.

iMac: Intel 2 GHz Core Duo (no '2'), 1.5 GB RAM, 250 GB HD, 27" & has a dvd dl burner. also had Tiger 10.4.x on it. I was proposing to tell the owner to buy Snow Leopard for it. I know that Lion will not work. I have looked at a couple of YouTubes that show how to access the HD.

Thank you for your quick reply and support.
Frank

03-21-2012, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by frankpc

Yes, I do see that ad at the Apple store. What confused me is that it said "upgrade" from Leopard to Snow Leopard.

Yes...that "verbiage" can be confusing.

Originally Posted by frankpc

But evidently, the DVD you would end up with is a bootable DVD that could be used to install Snow Leopard on a blank DVD, correct?

I assume you mean "blank hard drive" versus "blank DVD"? But yes...just insert the Snow Leopard DVD into the DVD drive, hold down the "C" key (to force boot from the DVD drive...and follow the onscreen instructions.

Originally Posted by frankpc

If that is the case, there is no reason to download stuff, etc. And it seems Snow Leopard at Amazon.com is more than $40. How can that be?

Folks on Amazon (just like e-Bay) can sell stuff for just about any price they want! If someone is willing to pay $40 (when they could get the same thing at Apple.com for $29)...shame on them for not researching!

Amazon.com is like a big department store...or worse...a big "flea market"...almost anything goes...especially if it's "used" stuff!

Originally Posted by frankpc

I have accumulated a lot of information on the two computers. The serial numbers for both Macs do yield the original specs for each one.

MacBook: 2 GHz - 2 core duo, 80 GB HD, 13.3", No DVD writer, 1 GB memory. It had Tiger 10.4.x on it.
I believe that means it is 64 bit and Snow Leopard would work on it. Don't know if there is a reason to buy Lion for it.

iMac: 2 GHz Core Duo (no '2'), 512 MB RAM, 259 GB HD, 27" & has a dvd dl burner. also had Tiger 10.4.x on it. I was proposing to tell the owner to upgrade it to 1 GB RAM, and buy Snow Leopard for it. I know that Lion will not work. I have looked at a couple of YouTubes that show how to access the HD.

Thank you for your quick reply and support.

Yes...this is why we needed more info. Both computers only have a "Core Duo" cpu...which mean the most recent OS that can be installed on them is OS 10.6 Snow Leopard. To install OS 10.7 Lion...the computer needs a Core 2 Duo cpu. If you had downloaded 10.7 Lion...you would have been out $29 bucks!...so great that you posted here first!

Maybe I misunderstood the spec info. You mentioned "2 Core Duo" for the MacBook. If you meant "Core 2 Duo"...then Lion can be installed on it.

HTH,

- Nick

p.s. By the way...the computers need 1gig of ram minimum to install Snow Leopard. So that iMac needs more ram.

p.s.s. One more note. To be in compliance with Apple's EULA...only one OS install/per computer/per disk. So you would need two Snow Leopard disks for both of these computers...or get some sort of volume license.

03-21-2012, 05:30 PM

Thank you again Nick!

I've been reading a lot about this stuff over the past day. And it is great to have someone reveiw and correct my findings.

Yes, I meant blank HD. And yes, I meant core 2 duo. And I understand about the need for 2 GB & the core 2 duo to run Lion. Obviously, I need to start with the Snow Leopard.

Also thanks for the comment regarding the need for two OS's. The two Macs belong to my friend's two sons. I feel confident he will be willing to buy the RAM, HDs, and DVDs as necessary.

The Mac OS X chart is really nice. There is a lot of information there. Very nice collection.

To take this one step further, I am pretty confident that as long as a replacement SATA HD has the same form factor, a size such as 160 or 320 will work in place of the MacBook's original 80GB.

And the same logic will hold for the iMac's 250GB HD. I haven't priced those yet since I am not positive that one is bad. It seems odd that both HDs would have failed at similar times. But both have the folder with the question mark. And with the new DVDs, I will certainly attempt to load the OS before buying replacement HDs.

I did remove the MacBook HD and attempted to connect it to my PC by placing it inside an external hard drive with USB. But I would guess that even if the HD was good, that wouldn't yield any meaningful results.

While the sons prefer to have the data recovered from the old HD's, my goal would be to at least get both Macs working again.

Thank you so much for the support Nick,
Frank

03-21-2012, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by frankpc

Yes, I meant blank HD. And yes, I meant core 2 duo. And I understand about the need for 2 GB & the core 2 duo to run Lion. Obviously, I need to start with the Snow Leopard.

Good deal...great that you know about the Lion system requirements already!

Originally Posted by frankpc

The Mac OS X chart is really nice. There is a lot of information there. Very nice collection.

Yes...that is a VERY well put together chart...especially with all the photos!!! Give "Razormac" (another staff member) some positive reputation for it. He did a great job!

Originally Posted by frankpc

To take this one step further, I am pretty confident that as long as a replacement SATA HD has the same form factor, a size such as 160 or 320 will work in place of the MacBook's original 80GB.

Yes...for the MacBook...as long as everything is SATA, 2.5" form factor, and usually 9.5mm height...everything should be fine. I think that most drives up to around 750gig meet this. Some larger drives sometimes are a little "thicker" than 9.5mm...and then things can get tight.

Originally Posted by frankpc

It seems odd that both HDs would have failed at similar times. But both have the folder with the question mark. And with the new DVDs, I will certainly attempt to load the OS before buying replacement HDs.

Yes...pretty odd! And yes...great strategy (same as I would do)...try reformatting those two "dead" drives...and reinstalling an OS before spending any $$$.

Originally Posted by frankpc

I did remove the MacBook HD and attempted to connect it to my PC by placing it inside an external hard drive with USB. But I would guess that even if the HD was good, that wouldn't yield any meaningful results.

I think that it would. If the HD works with your Windows computer...then that would seem to show that mechanically it is fine...and just needs to then be reformatted for the Mac...and an OS installed on it. As far as recovering files (photos, music, word processing, spreadsheets)...maybe...but probably not applications.

Originally Posted by frankpc

While the sons prefer to have the data recovered from the old HD's, my goal would be to at least get both Macs working again.

Yes...that would be ideal...but not always possible if you cannot access the HD's in any way. If the HD's aren't busted mechanically...there is some recovery software out there...which could possibly recover some data. But some of it is expensive...and there are no guarantees anything will be recoverable. So it would depend on how important the info is being recovered.

Good luck,

- Nick

03-21-2012, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by pigoo3

Yes...that would be ideal...but not always possible if you cannot access the HD's in any way. If the HD's aren't busted mechanically...there is some recovery software out there...which could possibly recover some data. But some of it is expensive...and there are no guarantees anything will be recoverable. So it would depend on how important the info is being recovered.

Thanks to your efforts Nick, I think I am ready to proceed forward.

And I'll check into the "positve reputation" stuff.

Frank

03-22-2012, 04:49 PM

I installed trial versions of MacDrive and TransMac in my Windows XP PC today. I mounted the MacBook HD into my USB external drive but the PC would not recognize it. I then installed the HD directly to my motherboard, but then the PC wouldn't even boot up. The HD does sound as though the disks are turning and clicking indicates the head is moving I believe.

If the HD was OK, do you think it would have been recognized and readable within the USB external drive and/or allowed the PC to boot up, recognized, and readable when it was connected directly to the MB?

I'm wondering whether both tests either point to or confirm that the HD is bad.

The owner of the Macs bought Snow Leopard and a new HD for the MacBook today, but I didn't want to install the new drive if there was any chance the old one was OK. Tomorrow, I'll attempt to install Snow Leopard on to the old one.

One final question, from your experience, what are the odds the HD's are bad when the folder with flashing question mark is displayed?

Thanks,

Frank

03-22-2012, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by frankpc

I installed trial versions of MacDrive and TransMac in my Windows XP PC today. I mounted the MacBook HD into my USB external drive but the PC would not recognize it. I then installed the HD directly to my motherboard, but then the PC wouldn't even boot up. The HD does sound as though the disks are turning and clicking indicates the head is moving I believe.

I think that when I mentioned that if this HD was ok when connected to your Windows computer...I was talking if it was reformatted for a Windows computer (which of course would eliminate any chance of recovering any files from it). If it worked on your Windows PC...then that would prove that the HD was mechanically ok...and then would just need to be installed back into the MacBook, the HD formatted for a Mac (via booting from an OS install DVD and using Disk Utility to format it)...and an OS installed on it.

If the HD was plugged into your Windows PC, reformatted for a Windows PC, and it didn't work at all...then it's probably bad...and a new HD is needed.

Originally Posted by frankpc

One final question, from your experience, what are the odds the HD's are bad when the folder with flashing question mark is displayed?

The flashing question mark can mean 3 things:

1. No OS installed on the HD.
2. If an OS is installed...something is wrong with it, since the computer is not recognizing it.
3. The HD is dead!

- Nick

03-22-2012, 06:03 PM

Hi Nick.

In my case, the MacBook HD was not formatted for the PC because, like you mention, I didn't want to lose the data that is on it. However, there doesn't seem to be a way to format it anyway since it is not recognized by the PC.

What I was wondering is whether when running an app like MacDrive, should I expect to be able to read a connected HD that is formatted for a Mac and is in good shape. I believe the answer has to be Yes. I just don't know whether the drives themselves are compatible between the Mac and PC. It seems that the writing and reading process is the same between them but the file and naming structure is unique to each. And the app must just translate the information read from one format to the other.

Thank you for the list of possibilities for the folder+question mark Nick.

Frank

03-23-2012, 09:16 PM

Well, my friend went to the Apple store to buy Snow Leopard, but was informed that he would have to order it online. But the good news is that he found the two gray disks (said to be Tiger) that came with the MacBook.

So, I installed a new 320 GB HD in the MacBook. And placed Disk 1 in the DVD drive. Disk Utilities recognizes the new Hard drive. I attempted to partition the HD, but got an error. I then selected the option, "Leave Data", the Erase process failed.

Then I selected, Write zeros to disk. That process is now progressing, but will take 9 hours. It makes no sense to me to have to do that, but it seems to be working. I was attempting to format the hard drive, but saw no other option other than "Erase".

Unfortunately, the 320 GB HD was recognized by the MacBook to be a 2.3 TB HD (yes, 2 TB too many). I have no idea why that happened.

I must be doing something wrong, but i saw no option to begin installing Tiger yet.

Any advice?

Thanks.

Frank

03-23-2012, 11:09 PM

Update:

The process to write zeros to the HD failed.

When I try to do a "1 Partition", I get an error: "Partition failed with the error: Input/output error"

Can't get passed this.

HD still shows to be 2.3 TB in the list of drives and 2.33 TB in the "Size:" window.

(Go KU)

03-27-2012, 08:29 PM

You might have a dead/dying hard drive on your hands then.

03-28-2012, 02:36 PM

Thanks Stretch. The replacement hard drive is brand new.

I've read on another forum that the technique used to handle sectors in the larger harddrives is different than it used to be in the smaller ones. And the version of Tiger I am using does not take that factor into account. Therefore, the larger HD's are shown to be 8 times larger than they actually are.

And, until the OS is updated, that error will continue. Snow Leopard is supposed to arrive today. I am somewhat confident that Snow Leopard will correctly read the new HD and be able to install itself on the HD.

I'll update this thread with the results.

Frank

03-28-2012, 03:22 PM

Hmm, that's strange. I would have figured that Tiger would have been able to read drives larger than 320GB. Actually, I think I put a 500GB hard drive in my iMac when I was running Tiger. I believe it came with a 320GB drive.