08-28-2011, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by Marrk

I understand how to create a user account. What I don't understand is how an non-admin account, or any second account, can prevent contamination of the OS and the hardware.

It's like locking the front door to your house and thinking you are safe from burglars. What about the other doors?

Thanks.

OS X is based on FreeBSD, a UNIX variant that was originally developed for mainframes. It was designed from the ground-up to limit the sphere of influence of a user.

Your admin account can't make modifications to any system directory without escalating permissions (hence the reason you're asked for a password during certain software installs). A normal user can't escalate at all.

In the 30+ years that BSD has existed, a virus has never been designed that has compromised this foundational security element. In fact, it's been so effective, Microsoft mimicked it in Vista (unsuccessfully) and tried to enhance it for 7 (again, unsuccessfully).

It's a core design element of the OS in the case of OS X, not a tacked-in add-on. If it were easy to compromise, it would have been done already on one of the thousands of truly high-value targets that run UNIX.

08-29-2011, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by Marrk

I understand how to create a user account. What I don't understand is how an non-admin account, or any second account, can prevent contamination of the OS and the hardware.

It's like locking the front door to your house and thinking you are safe from burglars. What about the other doors?

What about them? All accounts are locked off from each other.

Again, "contamination" is just not an issue on Macs, unless I'm just not understanding what you're on about.

08-29-2011, 07:41 PM

Thanks, chas, for your persistence. I was prepared to let the matter drop, since nobody seems to understand my point, but I'll try again.


A computer is one machine, one collection of mechanical parts, not a separate machine for each user account. It runs on one OS, not a separate OS for each user account. So, my question is: What difference does it make if User #1 or User #2 is the one who exposes the computer to a virus or to malware? How can User #2's having his own account be a protection for User #1?

08-29-2011, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by Marrk

Thanks, chas, for your persistence. I was prepared to let the matter drop, since nobody seems to understand my point, but I'll try again.


A computer is one machine, one collection of mechanical parts, not a separate machine for each user account. It runs on one OS, not a separate OS for each user account. So, my question is: What difference does it make if User #1 or User #2 is the one who exposes the computer to a virus or to malware? How can User #2's having his own account be a protection for User #1?

To put it as simply as possible, each account has permissions that restrict what it can do.

Malware is a software program like any other. So, if a piece of malware is run under a user account that can't make modifications to the OS, firmware or home directories other than the user's own, that malware has the same restrictions.

Does that make sense?

08-29-2011, 11:54 PM

Ah. Some lights are beginning to come on.

Thank you for your patience and pardon my dumbness.

08-31-2011, 05:24 PM

It is a great welcome thread , thank you!. I haven't open my Mac yet . I am trying to learn as much as I can and avoid mishaps .
Everyone I spoke with love their Mac ,a family member has had one since the early 90's , unfortunately he lives in Europe and can't help me.
I am concerned about security more than anything, call me paranoid . My P.C is going to go to Goodwill. I had a firewall suite (Online- Armor ) and what I liked most is their" Bank Mode" option , (kind of a sandbox) , is there something similar in a Mac? I also used a Limited User option even though I was the administrator and had Malwarebytes and AntiSuperspyware. I am going to feel vulnerable until I get used to my Mac. The other P.C on my home network is a laptop connected with a 2 wire /dsl router (I think) I also believe is is WEP and I read that it is better to have WPA . As you can read .I don't know the basics . I have never been infected, I used Mozillla FF with Noscript add-on and use Google as a search engine. Any comment or further advice you can give me will be of great help. Thanks again. Grandmere

08-31-2011, 06:49 PM

I understand how hard it can be to believe, after years of doing it one way, that you really don't have to spend so much time thinking about it and being paranoid, but you'll come to understand that most of it is handled for you. I hate to say "it's a matter of trusting Apple" because that sounds silly, but to some extent it's true. Obviously you still have to use some common sense and skepticism, but one of the reasons Mac users love their machines so much is that they have a certain level of inherent trust (or faith you might say) that the decisions Apple has made are by and large good ones, which is a very different feeling than you get from most other computers -- they put the weight of the decision-making on YOU (and of course some people much prefer that).

09-05-2011, 08:40 AM

Hi chasm, your post really saved me from deleting most of Apple's software and default folders. Oh by the way, I'm not sure if this is piracy but I get links of youtube music videos then convert them using 'YouTube 2 MP3' then import it to iTunes. Is that illegal ?

09-05-2011, 10:24 AM

I appreciate your reply but I always subscribe to "Trust but verify".
I was able to find on line an article from P. C Mag. with 10 Mac Security Tips .they suggest to use a "Standard" user for normal usage . Disable automatic Log In. Display login window "name and PW" . disable guest acct. and sharing there are other recommendations, that if interested one may access at Technology Product Reviews, News, Prices & Downloads | PCMag.com | PC Magazine . also Activate the Apple Firewall and when I called Apple they also told me that anytime one accesses a secure site (https) the site is Sandboxed) . all of the changes are in System preferences /accounts and Security/preferences. these fetaures are almost all of the ones i had on my P. C
You may think I am being silly or too concerned but I grew up during WW2 in Europe when one couldn't trust their former "good neighbors" and for older Switchers who want as much security as possible this info . may be of help .Grandmere
When the Post was published it didn't give access to the article I think by searching "10 Mac Security tips" will get you to the specific page.

09-05-2011, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by grandmere

I appreciate your reply but I always subscribe to "Trust but verify".
I was able to find on line an article from P. C Mag. with 10 Mac Security Tips .they suggest to use a "Standard" user for normal usage . Disable automatic Log In. Display login window "name and PW" . disable guest acct. and sharing there are other recommendations, that if interested one may access at Technology Product Reviews, News, Prices & Downloads | PCMag.com | PC Magazine . also Activate the Apple Firewall and when I called Apple they also told me that anytime one accesses a secure site (https) the site is Sandboxed) . all of the changes are in System preferences /accounts and Security/preferences. these fetaures are almost all of the ones i had on my P. C
You may think I am being silly or too concerned but I grew up during WW2 in Europe when one couldn't trust their former "good neighbors" and for older Switchers who want as much security as possible this info . may be of help .Grandmere
When the Post was published it didn't give access to the article I think by searching "10 Mac Security tips" will get you to the specific page.

I'm not smart enough to comment on most of this, but the Firewall on my Mac OS (and I think on most of them) is "ON" by default, which, I assume, is a good thing.

Just wanted to add that.

09-05-2011, 12:40 PM

PC Magazine runs down OSX and Macs. Read many reviews there totally bashing everything Apple. Don't have much trust for them at all.

Using common sense though is the key.

09-05-2011, 02:57 PM

The 10 Mac Security tips were from Nasa.

I don't believe everything I read . They have to be cautious and not lose advertisements that could be a reason for them to bash Apple . It would be more honest if they just said: " we are no the best source of info . on Apple products " .
Is there an Apple mag?
I have so many dumb questions , the only thing which makes me feel better , my husband has a doctorate and my 11 year grandson knows more about his P. C. that he does.

09-05-2011, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by grandmere

The 10 Mac Security tips were from Nasa.

I don't believe everything I read . They have to be cautious and not lose advertisements that could be a reason for them to bash Apple . It would be more honest if they just said: " we are no the best source of info . on Apple products " .
Is there an Apple mag?
I have so many dumb questions , the only thing which makes me feel better , my husband has a doctorate and my 11 year grandson knows more about his P. C. that he does.

There are at least a half dozen Apple mags. As it happens, I was just killing time at the newsstand in a Barnes and Noble yesterday and saw quite a few. The two big ones are MacWorld and, I think, Mac User.

09-05-2011, 03:17 PM

It is it is not a matter of being smart . I am certain that you know a lot more than I will ever know about Macs . I don't understand some simple things about computer language . In fact , it is like a language. Coming from a P.C where I was never fluent, to a Mac , is like trying to learn a new language . I know many brilliant people and some don't have any common sense or do unbelievable stupids things.
This was not a criticism of your reply, which seemed to just tell me not to
worry. I think worrying is part of my DNA. Grandmere

09-05-2011, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by grandmere

It is it is not a matter of being smart . I am certain that you know a lot more than I will ever know about Macs . I don't understand some simple things about computer language . In fact , it is like a language. Coming from a P.C where I was never fluent, to a Mac , is like trying to learn a new language . I know many brilliant people and some don't have any common sense or do unbelievable stupids things.
This was not a criticism of your reply, which seemed to just tell me not to
worry. I think worrying is part of my DNA. Grandmere

I think you misunderstood me. I didn't mean to imply that you were not smart.

By the way, I usually feel much the way you do. I don't know anything about computers, and everything seems quite strange to me, and difficult to figure out. I am _not_ one of the smart guys here. Quite the contrary. I come here to find out what's what from the gurus around this place!

Good luck.