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Switcher Hangout The place for switchers to discuss their new machines, and how to work with OS X. General support can be had here for newbie stuff, like "How do I restart my new iMac?" :)

Im a pc and need help...


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jbmag45

 
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I have the opportunity to go with a 27" imac but I need to run Autodesk software, i.e. AutoCad Revit etc.

Can I run a 64bit win xp os in boot camp?
Is it worth it as opposed to 32 bit?

Do I need to have firewall/virus protection for the partitioned Win XP OS?

Will Autodesk ever have AutoCad for mac and make life easier?

-jm
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PsYkOoOoO

 
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Yes, you'd need firewall and anti-virus programs if you choose to run Windows on your Mac. When you run Windows, your computer becomes just like any other computer out there that is vulnerable to attacks.
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MacInWin

 
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Well, firewall and anti-virus programs are an interesting discussion. I use VMWare to host WindowsXP Pro SP3 on my iMac. Right after I finished all the installs that I needed, I took a snapshot of the system. When/if I get any virus, all I have to do is whack the current image and then restore from the snapshot. I run without anti-virus, don't use it to connect to the Internet and use the external firewall on my ISP router to protect it. I like not have the anti-virus stuff because leaving it out you end up with a pretty snappy Windows system!
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S.SubZero

 
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When you use Boot Camp, all you are doing is dual booting. The Mac hardware platform is based closely on a typical PC, as in they use a lot of the same parts, just "tweaked" a little by Apple.

XP64.. I have a hard time encouraging XP64 on a computer today. I don't know how thorough the hardware in the 27" iMac is on driver support. XP64 was always the red-headed stepchild Windows OS, a "proof of concept" more than any mainstream offering. If you really, really want XP64, be prepared to find all the drivers yourself.

Being Windows on a native platform, how you act regarding antivirus and whatever else is exactly as if the shell of the machine said Dell or HP or Lenovo or whatever.
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Ben10666

 
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How is it that macs dont get virus' Im a new MBP owner and alot of people have told me that its because there is such a small percentage of macs to pcs that hackers just dont bother. Is this true/ Sounds kinda unlikely to me...
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chas_m

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben10666 View Post
How is it that macs dont get virus' Im a new MBP owner and alot of people have told me that its because there is such a small percentage of macs to pcs that hackers just dont bother. Is this true/ Sounds kinda unlikely to me...
This particular lie is third in the list of biggest whoppers, the second being "the cheque is in the mail."

The "security through obscurity" myth is just that: a myth. Apple has quadrupled its marketshare over the last six years, including ad campaigns that specifically mention its immunity from Windows viruses, and yet here we are nearly 10 years after OS X launched and guess what? No viruses.

Why?

1. Mac OS X is built on UNIX. UNIX isn't Windows (to put it mildly). Viruses are written for Windows *because* Windows is riddled with holes. UNIX isn't. That's why the internet runs on it, why banks run on it, why the military runs on it. UNIX is just plain more secure than Windows.

2. On top of that, Mac OS X incorporates additional security, like shipping with ports closed, requiring admin passwords to install system-interacting software, and signed packages. Windows either does not do these things, or does them so poorly that hackers can circumvent it.

3. Mac OS X doesn't use the same system calls and APIs as Windows, so vulnerabilities aren't as easily exploited. Mac OS X isn't perfect either, but the combination of being completely different than Windows and requiring user authentication means the number of obstacles blocking a hacker's chance of success is high enough that its not worth the effort, and the OS severely limits the ability to do any real damage.

THAT's why Macs don't get (and aren't likely to ever get) viruses.
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chas_m

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbmag45 View Post
I have the opportunity to go with a 27" imac but I need to run Autodesk software, i.e. AutoCad Revit etc.

Can I run a 64bit win xp os in boot camp?
Yes.

Quote:
Is it worth it as opposed to 32 bit?
Not really. 64-bit computing is here, but its going to be a few years yet before most software really leverages that, and when that happens you'll starting seeing stuff that needs a MINIMUM of 8GB of RAM. That's when most of us will *really* see the power of 64-bit.

Quote:
Do I need to have firewall/virus protection for the partitioned Win XP OS?
Jakerich's suggestion is an interesting one that bears consideration, but normally I'd say yes, you need to take the same precautions on the Windows "side" as you would on a normal Windows PC.

Macs do NOT require any antivirus OR software firewalls.

Quote:
Will Autodesk ever have AutoCad for mac and make life easier?
Thousands of their customers have been screaming for it for over a decade now (my cousin works there), but apparently it hasn't been enough to persuade them. Personally I think they're being foolish, but if you're a very PC-centric company with PC users and the resulting PC mentality, I admit its kinda hard to create a product that Mac users will actually love until the company really "sees the light" and decides to make a genuine Mac program instead of a "port" effort. I know this from hard experience.
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Raz0rEdge

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chas_m View Post
2. On top of that, Mac OS X incorporates additional security, like shipping with ports closed, requiring admin passwords to install system-interacting software, and signed packages. Windows either does not do these things, or does them so poorly that hackers can circumvent it.
This by far is the BEST protection that OS X (and Linux) use to protect the user. If you think back to the old Windows 95/98 days, you created a user account, but it didn't really do much and you could install any application as you saw fit..

With Windows NT 4.0 and newer version of Windows, the need for admin privs to install application was added, however the problem is that it's an either all on or all off kind of scheme. Paranoid IT admins will usually create user accounts that lack system-level privileges which prevents them from doing much of anything on the system, and doing even the most basic things usually requires the privs that also allow people to end up installing malware/virus and other bad things by mistake.

With OS X (and Unix/Linux), you provide a user account System Privs, but the beauty is that when the privs are needed, you are prompted for your password which is a clear indication that you are changing something at the system level and can be immediately stopped if you didn't intend/want to do that..

I'm amazed that even Windows 7 doesn't have this sort of a prompt to prevent system level access without a user with system privileges knowing about it..

Regards
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DarkestRitual

 
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Good, I didn't need to answer.
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MacInWin

 
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@chas_m, my rationale is simple--I like the speed of Windows without all of the anti-virus checking. I only use it for one simple application, rarely connect to the Internet while in Windows and don't use it for email, so if somehow a virus slips past the firewall, I don't mind whacking the image and starting over. In fact, I occasionally whack it anyway, just as a precaution. I originally installed the OS, then the AV stuff and watched it slow to a crawl, but then had the epiphany about not needing it and went the other way. Windows w/o AV isn't all that bad, performance-wise, and in my particular case it's not a big deal.

Might not be so easy if your needs in Windows are for persistent files, Internet and email access, etc, as the "whacking" would be more painful, but for me, it works.
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wirelessmacuser

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raz0rEdge View Post


With OS X (and Unix/Linux), you provide a user account System Privs, but the beauty is that when the privs are needed, you are prompted for your password which is a clear indication that you are changing something at the system level and can be immediately stopped if you didn't intend/want to do that..

I'm amazed that even Windows 7 doesn't have this sort of a prompt to prevent system level access without a user with system privileges knowing about it..
Actually Windows 7 _does_ have this sort of prompt. In fact it has 12 dedicated prompts designed to keep the system secure. It was also a feature in Vista. Microsoft improved it and gave even more flexibility and ease of use to the system administrator in Windows 7.
.
As far as Autodesk building a Mac version of their apps. Its simple economics, with only 8% of all computers running OS X, it makes no sense to devote time & resources to port it for Mac. Yes I agree, it would be nice, but there is no chance of it anytime soon.
.
We love our Macs, and they have a lot of superior features. But we must accept that it's a niche computer. If they were a mainstream product Steve Jobs would not have been so quick to rename the company. He's a very sharp guy and realized that since they weren't getting anywhere with "Apple Computer Inc" he took the company to "Hollywood"
which was a brilliant move. Building on what the mainstream & tech press has dubbed the "halo effect" Steve capitalized on the iPod success, created the entertainment based iPhone and renamed the company "Apple Inc". By disposing of "Apple Computer" he has since focused on building a new public image and reaped the profits. A great move. Sell music, videos, and the devices to play that media. Brilliant!
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thomas998

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben10666 View Post
How is it that macs dont get virus' Im a new MBP owner and alot of people have told me that its because there is such a small percentage of macs to pcs that hackers just dont bother. Is this true/ Sounds kinda unlikely to me...
Complete rubbish... having used both PCs and Macs since the early 80's I can state from first hand experience that a Mac can get a virus. In fact the first experience I had with one was on a Mac was a nasty little bugger that could also reside in the printers memory... was harder to get rid of than any windows virus I've ever had to deal with.
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chscag

 
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That was likely before BSD\Unix, probably the classic OS of which there were viruses that did occasionally latch on. Since the implementation of OS X there have been trojans but no real threats from viruses that I'm aware of.

Anyway, nothing compared to what's out there that can infect Windows.

Regards.
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wirelessmacuser

 
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Complete rubbish... having used both PCs and Macs since the early 80's I can state from first hand experience that a Mac can get a virus.
This is 100% correct. I have seen a few viruses years ago on Macs.
.
Its also important to remember that unlike Windows which is a backwards compatible OS, Apple has abandoned its native OS more than once since their inception. The result is they've had an opportunity to "start over". While this has left a lot of Mac owners high & dry...forcing them to buy all new software etc, it's allowed Apple to learn.
.
Long time Mac users will remember when Apple themselves, suggested that users use anti-virus software. Then later when OS X was developed they said it was no longer needed. However this is of questionable wisdom. The very foundation of OS X being based on Unix, does not guarantee you cannot get a virus. One of the oldest worms is a linux worm. Remember, if its a computer, it can get a virus. Thus it becomes a matter of when, and what the likelihood is. On a Mac at the present time, chances are very low. The "bang for the buck" that virus writers get, is much higher by writing one for windows, since we live in a windows world. However, if OS X market share continues to increase, the temptation to target the mac community grows.
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lemondime

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakerich View Post
Well, firewall and anti-virus programs are an interesting discussion. I use VMWare to host WindowsXP Pro SP3 on my iMac. Right after I finished all the installs that I needed, I took a snapshot of the system. When/if I get any virus, all I have to do is whack the current image and then restore from the snapshot. I run without anti-virus, don't use it to connect to the Internet and use the external firewall on my ISP router to protect it. I like not have the anti-virus stuff because leaving it out you end up with a pretty snappy Windows system!
Good idea!

Cheers,
lemondime

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