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Switcher Hangout The place for switchers to discuss their new machines, and how to work with OS X. General support can be had here for newbie stuff, like "How do I restart my new iMac?" :)

Switcher with New MBP


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wirelessmacuser

 
Member Since: Dec 20, 2009
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I have two questions please:

1) I just purchased a new Unibody MacBook Pro 15" 2.66/4GB/320GB

In addition, I purchased a full retail copy of WinXP SP3. I am trying to decide if I should install it using Boot Camp or use either Parallels Desktop 5, or VMware Fusion 3, so as not to have to reboot.

Here is what I want to do with my new MBP:

Be able to run the Windows version of Office, as I use Outlook and rely heavily on it. Also it syncs with my BlackBerry which is very important as I have 1,000 contacts, tasks, calendar etc.

Since Outlook is something that I'm in and out of all day long, checking my calendar, writing client notes, etc. The ability to run it side by side with OS X would be very handy.

Now for a totally difference approach:


2) I would love to dump Outlook if there was a reasonable option on the Mac Side so I would not have to run Windows on my new Mac.

Also I just purchased an iPhone3Gs which I would like to use to replace my BlackBerry. Then I could be All Apple which would suit me just fine and is actually my preference.

Any tips or suggestions are greatly appreciated

Thanks
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cwa107

 
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In reference to question 1, have a look at this guide:

http://www.mac-forums.com/forums/win...ers-guide.html

And specific to your Blackberry, it should sync just fine using a virtualization product or Boot Camp. So, the choice really comes down to personal preference. The guide will explains the pros and cons of each approach.

As to your second question, you can certainly use Mail, Address Book and iCal to replace Outlook. Those three products are included with your Mac, although Outlook users tend to prefer they be integrated. Entourage for Mac (included with Office 2008) takes this approach, so it's certainly something to check into. You can download a free trial of MS Office 2008 from Mactopia - Discover Office 2008 for Mac from Microsoft.

Liquid and computers don't mix. It might seem simple, but we see an incredible amount of people post here about spills. Keep drinks and other liquids away from your expensive electronics!
QUOTE Thanks
wirelessmacuser

 
Member Since: Dec 20, 2009
Location: CA,USA
Posts: 130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwa107 View Post
And specific to your Blackberry, it should sync just fine using a virtualization product or Boot Camp. So, the choice really comes down to personal preference. The guide will explains the pros and cons of each approach.

As to your second question, you can certainly use Mail, Address Book and iCal to replace Outlook. Those three products are included with your Mac, although Outlook users tend to prefer they be integrated. Entourage for Mac (included with Office 2008) takes this approach, so it's certainly something to check into. You can download a free trial of MS Office 2008 from Mactopia - Discover Office 2008 for Mac from Microsoft.
Thanks for your fast and courteous response. I read the material in the link and have just a couple of questions please:

1) Speed difference between running WinXP Pro SP3 within a Virtualization Environment like VMware or Parallels, as opposed to running it in Boot Camp.

Just a "rough estimate" would be helpful. For example if on a scale of 1 to 10 XP Pro runs as a 10 under Bootcamp, what would the number be for it running within a VM environment? I don't want to take a big speed reduction by using VMware or Parallels.

2) Since Entourage 2008 is different that Outlook 2003 (not dramatically but just enough to be "another app to learn"). I would prefer to stay away from that. Also I'm trying to stay "Microsoft Free" on the Mac Side.

3) Since I use Gmail, I could use Address Book and iCal to replace Outlook, as you mentioned which I am giving serious consideration to. If I did that, the only remaining issue would be the BlackBerry and yet that's why I bought the iPhone is I'm hoping that the combo of the iPhone and MacBook Pro will provide me with the ability to sync the Mac Address Book, and iCal.

Additional thoughts please?

Thanks!
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cwa107

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wirelessmacuser View Post
Thanks for your fast and courteous response. I read the material in the link and have just a couple of questions please:

1) Speed difference between running WinXP Pro SP3 within a Virtualization Environment like VMware or Parallels, as opposed to running it in Boot Camp.

Just a "rough estimate" would be helpful. For example if on a scale of 1 to 10 XP Pro runs as a 10 under Bootcamp, what would the number be for it running within a VM environment? I don't want to take a big speed reduction by using VMware or Parallels.
It's not emulation, so we're talking about near native speeds. Every processor intensive program I've ever used on my VMs has proven to be up to par with Windows running natively on the same hardware.

The only time performance differences would be apparent is if you're using an app or game that requires 3D acceleration, which does require a bit of emulation. If you don't run games or do 3D modeling, you won't ever know the difference.

Quote:
2) Since Entourage 2008 is different that Outlook 2003 (not dramatically but just enough to be "another app to learn"). I would prefer to stay away from that. Also I'm trying to stay "Microsoft Free" on the Mac Side.
Outlook is supposed to be included with the next Mac Office release (which I think is in 2012). Otherwise, you're stuck with Entourage if you need to keep within the whole Outlook paradigm. I know of no other app on the Mac that replicates the functionality of Outlook.

Quote:
3) Since I use Gmail, I could use Address Book and iCal to replace Outlook, as you mentioned which I am giving serious consideration to. If I did that, the only remaining issue would be the BlackBerry and yet that's why I bought the iPhone is I'm hoping that the combo of the iPhone and MacBook Pro will provide me with the ability to sync the Mac Address Book, and iCal.

Additional thoughts please?

Thanks!
The Blackberry can certainly sync with the combo of Mail/Address Book and iCal. And of course, Gmail integrates well with IMAP on Apple Mail. As I understand it, Blackberry has their own native client for the Mac that was just recently redone and is said to be very good. Alternatively, you could look at "The Missing Sync for Blackberry" which is usually well regarded.

Of course the iPhone will integrate seamlessly with those apps as well.

Liquid and computers don't mix. It might seem simple, but we see an incredible amount of people post here about spills. Keep drinks and other liquids away from your expensive electronics!
QUOTE Thanks
wirelessmacuser

 
Member Since: Dec 20, 2009
Location: CA,USA
Posts: 130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwa107 View Post
It's not emulation, so we're talking about near native speeds. Every processor intensive program I've ever used on my VMs has proven to be up to par with Windows running natively on the same hardware.

The only time performance differences would be apparent is if you're using an app or game that requires 3D acceleration, which does require a bit of emulation. If you don't run games or do 3D modeling, you won't ever know the difference.
When you said it's not emulation, that really brought it home for me. That was something that I had used many years ago on a PowerBook and just slowed it to a crawl.

I've had lots of PowerBooks in the past as personal machines and now that the MBP can run windows, it's really the reason I just bought one. Also I had to wait until Apple finally gave us back an option for the matte display as the glossy just didn't work for me.

Sounds like a good solution for me would be Parallels Desktop 5 , would you agree?

Then I can setup my Windows XP Pro, with my entire MS Office suite on it, and go from there.

I don't run games or do 3G modeling rendering etc.

Any drawbacks, or warnings you have?

Any install tips, like how much memory to allocate, etc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwa107 View Post
The Blackberry can certainly sync with the combo of Mail/Address Book and iCal. And of course, Gmail integrates well with IMAP on Apple Mail. As I understand it, Blackberry has their own native client for the Mac that was just recently redone and is said to be very good. Alternatively, you could look at "The Missing Sync for Blackberry" which is usually well regarded.

Of course the iPhone will integrate seamlessly with those apps as well.
Yes I think this part of the project will be pretty easy.

Your help is greatly appreciated as I'm ready to get this baby up and running, (I haven't even unboxed it yet it's just a day old).
QUOTE Thanks
cwa107

 
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I personally prefer VMWare Fusion, but the differences are mostly aesthetic. As an IT professional, I am accustomed to using VMWare products as they are the preeminent player in virtualization technology. I own both products and can honestly say that VMWare is both faster and more stable in my experience. It also has FAR better support for Linux distros, which truly cinched it for me.

As far as resource allocation, I'd give XP 1GB (it plays nicely with 512MB, which is the default, but I've always found that 1GB is the sweet spot for XP). With Vista or 7, you want to give it 2GB at a minimum.

Installation is very painless and mostly automated. And if you want to change the hardware config of the VM later, you can always do so as long as the VM is shut down.

One thing I will recommend to you is that you enable "Two finger tapping for right-click" as soon as you boot the Mac up for the first time. Otherwise, you'll find the trackpad very annoying on a Mac. Once you get used to tapping with two fingers for right click, it becomes very natural - even in Windows.

Also, I would recommend using Microsoft's own Security Essentials for an AV suite in Windows. Both Parallels and VMWare come with their own suits (one is Kaspersky and the other I believe is McAfee), but in my experience Security Essentials does a great job, is unobtrusive and it's also free.

Liquid and computers don't mix. It might seem simple, but we see an incredible amount of people post here about spills. Keep drinks and other liquids away from your expensive electronics!
QUOTE Thanks
wirelessmacuser

 
Member Since: Dec 20, 2009
Location: CA,USA
Posts: 130
wirelessmacuser is on a distinguished road
Mac Specs: MBP 2.66GHz / 4GB / 320GB / Matte 15"

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwa107 View Post
I personally prefer VMWare Fusion, but the differences are mostly aesthetic. As an IT professional, I am accustomed to using VMWare products as they are the preeminent player in virtualization technology. I own both products and can honestly say that VMWare is both faster and more stable in my experience. It also has FAR better support for Linux distros, which truly cinched it for me.
I looked at both sites and the VWware site was a bit intimidating, as it seemed more like a corporate product. Yet if you are suggesting that, then it's the way I will go, as I have no personal preference since I have no experience.

Also I have a ThinkPad running Linux, and eventually I would like to have Linux, XP Pro, and OS X on the new MBP. Will I be able to do that with the 4GB of Ram that is in the machine now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwa107 View Post
As far as resource allocation, I'd give XP 1GB (it plays nicely with 512MB, which is the default, but I've always found that 1GB is the sweet spot for XP). With Vista or 7, you want to give it 2GB at a minimum.

Installation is very painless and mostly automated. And if you want to change the hardware config of the VM later, you can always do so as long as the VM is shut down.

One thing I will recommend to you is that you enable "Two finger tapping for right-click" as soon as you boot the Mac up for the first time. Otherwise, you'll find the trackpad very annoying on a Mac. Once you get used to tapping with two fingers for right click, it becomes very natural - even in Windows.

Also, I would recommend using Microsoft's own Security Essentials for an AV suite in Windows. Both Parallels and VMWare come with their own suits (one is Kaspersky and the other I believe is McAfee), but in my experience Security Essentials does a great job, is unobtrusive and it's also free.
Thanks for the tip on Microsoft Security Essentials. Now I'm running AVG.

Other thoughts you might have ? Sounds like we are getting down to the last of the details, I'm really excited.
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cwa107

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wirelessmacuser View Post
I looked at both sites and the VWware site was a bit intimidating, as it seemed more like a corporate product. Yet if you are suggesting that, then it's the way I will go, as I have no personal preference since I have no experience.
Parallels is a solid product, but I found it to be a bit glitchy. They seem to be quicker to implement new features (and of course, they seem to charge for updates often too - and it's not cheap either). Parallels is a fairly new player in this industry, VMWare is used both in the consumer market and also in the enterprise, where you'll find it running on everything from huge server farms to corporate desktops where it's more advantageous to "sandbox" a desktop environment. I think a lot of the "lessons learned" from that vast background factor into their Mac product.

Make sure you're on the right website, here:

VMware Fusion: Run Windows and Chrome OS on Mac for Desktop Virtualization

Quote:
Also I have a ThinkPad running Linux, and eventually I would like to have Linux, XP Pro, and OS X on the new MBP. Will I be able to do that with the 4GB of Ram that is in the machine now?
Sure. The memory is only being used up while the VM is up and running. When you're done using it, you'll just close the window, which puts it to sleep, freeing up your resources. The only time you'd need to be concerned about lack of resources is if you decide to run multiple VMs concurrently. So, for example, if you had a Windows 7 VM and a Linux VM and an XP VM, running on top of your host OS (OS X) simultaneously, you'd probably be vying for resources. But then, why would you ever need to have multiple VMs open simultaneously, unless you were trying to create a network of machines all running on top of a single host?

Quote:
Thanks for the tip on Microsoft Security Essentials. Now I'm running AVG.

Other thoughts you might have ? Sounds like we are getting down to the last of the details, I'm really excited.
I used AVG for many years - up until Intel bought them out and they started introducing major code bloat in their products. AVG is now as bloated as the big boys (Norton and McAfee) and almost as much as a resource hog. So, I switched to Avira after I saw it score an '8' on Maximum PC's comparison.

When Security Essentials came out, I gave it a whirl and couldn't believe it was a Microsoft product. It does what it's supposed to do and doesn't get in your way. I have it on my 3 PCs, Boot Camp partition and my Windows VMs. Haven't had a single problem in the 3 months I've been using it.

Liquid and computers don't mix. It might seem simple, but we see an incredible amount of people post here about spills. Keep drinks and other liquids away from your expensive electronics!
QUOTE Thanks
wirelessmacuser

 
Member Since: Dec 20, 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwa107 View Post
VMWare is used both in the consumer market and also in the enterprise, where you'll find it running on everything from huge server farms to corporate desktops where it's more advantageous to "sandbox" a desktop environment. I think a lot of the "lessons learned" from that vast background factor into their Mac product.

When Security Essentials came out, I gave it a whirl and couldn't believe it was a Microsoft product. It does what it's supposed to do and doesn't get in your way. I have it on my 3 PCs, Boot Camp partition and my Windows VMs. Haven't had a single problem in the 3 months I've been using it.
Tomorrows the day I have set aside for this project.

So here is my Plan:

* Install
VMware Fusion 3 (1GB ram)
Win XP Pro SP3
MS Office 2003 (my favorite for yrs)
MS OneNote 2003
Firefox 3.5.6
MS Security Essentials
BlackBerry Desktop Mgr

This is my minimal Windows software load.

Everything else I will do in OS X Snow Leopard


Is there anything that I have overlooked or forgotten to ask?

Thank you so much for your time in educating me, and making my project a fun one. I have peace of mind now going into it, that I'm taking the right road.
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cwa107

 
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I think that about covers it for now. Feel free to resurrect the thread if you have any more questions. I started here in much the same way and have found the forum quite helpful.

When you've developed habits after decades of using Windows, it can be challenging to make the switch over to a relatively eccentric OS like OS X. In some ways, it's tougher than switching to Linux, since Linux tends to adopt Windows nuisances, whereas the Mac has always had its own identity. The best advice I can offer you is to try to take off your Windows hat and put on your Mac hat. There's a lot of subtle differences and you need to try to keep an open mind - just because something is different, doesn't mean it's "wrong" per se, just different.

Liquid and computers don't mix. It might seem simple, but we see an incredible amount of people post here about spills. Keep drinks and other liquids away from your expensive electronics!
QUOTE Thanks
wirelessmacuser

 
Member Since: Dec 20, 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwa107 View Post
The best advice I can offer you is to try to take off your Windows hat and put on your Mac hat. There's a lot of subtle differences and you need to try to keep an open mind - just because something is different, doesn't mean it's "wrong" per se, just different.
I could not agree more.

In fact it's one of the primary reasons for this project, is to challenge myself to be open minded, learn something new and enjoy the process.

I like the "Mac Hat" concept.

Thanks Again!

Cheers...
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wirelessmacuser

 
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@cwa107

I just read this:


"Overall, I prefered vmware for the superior support, and stable product. I recommend trying both of them."

"Both can also access/run your windows bootcamp install if you choose to go that path. That is, install windows in bootcamp, use that when you want but then run it in vmware as well."


Would you be so kind as to explain this concept of running both a VM & a "Bootcamp ~ Windows install" to me?

What are the pros and cons? Is this worth doing ?

Thanks
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cwa107

 
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Boot Camp facilitates the installation of Windows directly onto your Mac hardware. Since the Mac is really just an x86 machine beneath the surface, all Boot Camp does is divide your hard drive into two partitions (one for OS X and one for Windows) and kick off the install. Once it's done, Boot Camp also provides drivers for Mac-specific keyboards, mice and the basic drivers for your system.

When you install either VMWare or Parallels, they should automatically detect the presence of that Boot Camp partition. If you double click on it, VMWare/Parallels will attach the VM to that partition instead of using a hard disk file and boot the Boot Camp partition as a VM.

The pros? You can access your Boot Camp installation while still running OS X and also boot natively into Windows should you want to run a game.

The cons? You'll need to enter your OS X password every time you go to start the Boot Camp VM. Additionally, quick suspend/wake up don't work nearly as well and the partition size is static. And of course, Windows Product Activation can be flakey since as far as Windows is concerned, you've got your copy installed on more than one machine. The VMWare/Parallels Tools package does a decent job of controlling this, but it can be flakey.

Liquid and computers don't mix. It might seem simple, but we see an incredible amount of people post here about spills. Keep drinks and other liquids away from your expensive electronics!
QUOTE Thanks
wirelessmacuser

 
Member Since: Dec 20, 2009
Location: CA,USA
Posts: 130
wirelessmacuser is on a distinguished road
Mac Specs: MBP 2.66GHz / 4GB / 320GB / Matte 15"

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@cwa107

So, once again it sounds like the plan, you helped me craft yesterday, of running VMware with XP Pro SP3 for my windows work is in my case, by far the best solution.

Never one to play (or even load a game on my computer) I'm more concerned with simply having constant access to MS Outlook, OneNote, and occasional access to the MS Office suite when absolutely needed.

The rest of the time it's all Mac for me.

The good news is work (luckily being very busy) took me away from the project today, so it's been pushed back just one day. I'm so excited to unbox my new MBP, and get this setup done.

I thank you for making my re-entry into the world of Macs quite educational and fun.

Hopefully in the not too distant future I can begin giving back to this fine community.

Thanks again for your timely responses, they have been priceless.

Cheers...
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