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Thread: Switching the other way?
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10-02-2003, 12:18 AM #1lokerdGuestSwitching the other way?
Hello all. My supervisor asked me today how I felt about switching to PC...I told him that I was ok with it. Am I wrong?
I started on Mac in 1990. Bought my first Mac in 1991 and was a die-hard Mac loyalist...standing around at Best Buy in 1996 volunteering my time to help people by Macs. I taught on Macs from 1992-1997. When I left teaching, I went into private industry with a company that had proprietary software that required a PC. So, I grudgedly bought one (1997). Over the next couple of years, I was drawn more into the PC world, and finally sold my last Mac in '99 or thereabouts. I am currently working on a XP laptop and actually like the system...MUCH more so that 98 or ME.
Anwyay, a couple of months ago, I returned to teaching...the same position I taught from 92-97: photography/desktop publishing.
The class is a High School class in a low economic school. Most of the students do NOT have a computer at home. If they do, it definately is NOT a Mac. In my school, there are NO other Macs, with very few in the district...mostly from the ones handed down from the 601 PowerMacs I bought back in 95.
The question is right now that the lab desparately needs to be upgraded. We are in the process of upgrading to digital photography and photoshop needs upgrading, but the computers need upgrading. We have 15 G3 iMacs at 233, and 5 eMac G4 at 800. I just learned from here that OS 10 is a no go on the iMacs...and I canceled the order.
The point is that the lab needs upgrading. In January, money will be available to upgrade the lab to whatever I request, Mac or PC.
At this point, I am not convinced why stick with Mac. I don't like OS10...it seems slow, even on the new G4s. Photoshop drags bad.
So, why stick with Mac under the circumstances? The students will NEVER use a Mac again, and I am already having to overcoming learning challenges and unteach the little bit of experience they may already have from some PC experience. I am even going to abandon PageMaker in favor of Word becuase it being unrealistic that they will EVER use PageMaker again.
On the positive side, I don't want to develop materials all year long, and then have to turn around and redevelop them again for PC, so if the thoughts are to stay with Mac, then that will be great, wtih less work...unless of course I upgrade to OS 10 with the new computers, and have to redevelop everything anyway.
Let me know what you all think!
Thanks!
Drew
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10-02-2003, 12:31 AM #2hokiethangGuest
Originally Posted by lokerd
Which version of OS X are you using? I recently ran through the upgrade path on a couple of machines I am going to throw into my lab as a test to plan for future purchases, and 10.0 - 10.2 did seem to be fairly slow. After applying the patches to 10.2 though on the Power Mac G4 466, it seemed to speed up and be very usable.
Also, I agree, Page maker is on its way out, but Word X is pretty close if not exactly like word on a PC, so the students shouldnt have a problem learning that. Diversity in environment exposure is good. If I had a chance to use a mac in high school, I would have been more open to them before coming to college, and possibly wasted less money in building a PC.
The ultimate choice is up to you, but from my experience the stability and the lack of daily administration is definitely where the mac stands out. I find it hard to crash my mac (even tried intentionally a couple of times to no avail), where my PCs in my lab, do it on a daily basis (with people who supposedly know what they are doing).
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10-02-2003, 12:53 AM #3
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This is slightly off-topic, but they aren't going to throw the Macs away when they upgrade, are they? If so, please let me know before it happens - I'd like to "rescue" a few.
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10-02-2003, 02:10 AM #4
If you have the choice to choose between PC or Mac, why not go with Mac? I don't know how much funding you could have but a high end G4 can handle OS X fine I'm sure.
There's Office X for Mac, so you wont miss out from that. You'll have less crashes, less viruses/trojans to worry about from your High School students. And you shouldn't have to worry too much about drivers when you switch to Digital Photography.
sKaD
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10-02-2003, 09:29 AM #5
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Wow..Originally Posted by lokerd
Originally Posted by lokerd
Originally Posted by lokerd
Originally Posted by lokerd
Originally Posted by lokerd
Originally Posted by lokerd
Now InDesign that's another thing.. many production shops are using InDesign.. I even worked with a company that did all their layout in Freehand.. which I fought with at first, but then after awhile I realized it was a really smooth way of working.
I think it comes down to what I had mentioned above.. find out what the community is using in those fields that you are teaching.. and teach with those tools.
I really hope you don't find what I said harsh or take it the wrong way.. it's the way I feel and the way I keep telling people whenever I hear this quetion.. It's the problems we had when I was in college and taking graphics technology.. I had administrators who wanted to just get one type of computer and go with it, but then I had a really great teacher who brought people in from the community and had them lecture, and he tried to emmulate the working environment that they had in the "real world". And he fought with those administrators giving the points that I outlined above.. and I am so so very thankful that he did. If he hadn't I would not have been prepared for the places I worked after college.
You can't fully prepare someone for the "real work world", but you can help them along or hinder them. Forget the PC/Mac debate.. there is no reason to have it at this point.. the debate is teaching young minds and preparing them for their vocation... and how you can best do that.
Cheers!
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10-02-2003, 09:31 AM #6
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Oh yeah.. and like Padawan said.. if your school is going to get rid of those macs.. I am most definitely interested also
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10-02-2003, 02:23 PM #7FomerGuest
Well I have some "food-for-thought"
Microsoft was responsible for that huge worm virus that went out. I knew some people's computers who it completely messed up before they ever had the chance to fix them.
Before I switched I owned a Dell Demension 4400, 1.2 gigs, Norton Anti Virus and built in Firewall. Through the year and half I owned the computer I recieved roughly around 400 viruses. Mind you this is with a Anti Virus. And I coincidered myself a safe user I didn't download anything and everything, I rarley used filesharing and when I did it was to download a few (legal!) songs. I ran Norton every Friday and it would find anywhere from 2 - 4 viruses.
From the sound of things your computers are of importance to your class, so if they were to recieve a virus and you lost a couple that would take a toll on things. Where as you've probably never had that problem on a mac.
And as far as photoshop lagging, I am on a powerbook g4 and my photoshop loads with in seconds. My Dell took around 2 minutes to load.
I am not going to try and covince you to stick with mac, I read your story and see exactly where you are coming from, I just wanted to remind you of how virus prone Windows is.
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10-02-2003, 07:43 PM #8lokerdGuest
Originally Posted by Murlyn
I think the key here IS preparing them for the real world. At least in Southeast Texas, in Beaumont, a city of about 100k, about 90 miles east of Houston, there is VERY little Mac acitivity. I was one of the strongest advocates, which is part of the reason why the Mac lab is even here. The problem is that even the local industry has TOTALLY left Mac. The city newspaper has them You can't buy them at Best Buy, Circuit City, Office Mac or Office Depot, and that is it for technology in the store. There is an Apple Dealer here, but the average person is not going to go looking for them...they are going to walk into Best Buy and buy! Apple made a HUGE mistake when they lost the BB program. When they had iMacs there at first, Apple had a fighting chance. And if even ONE, JUST ONE major store had Macs for sale, I would be FAR more likely to justify to stay. But the reality is that they are VERY, VERY unlikely to ever use another Mac computer again. If we were even in Houston, I would think differently, certainly in San Fran or other cities with high concentration of Macs.
I mean, the likely hood of any of my students pursuing a career in photography or computer design is VERY few. I have had a few over the 5 years I have taught this class go directly into design. And I push the issue during the course of the year as a resume builing strategy. But things have changed. The school demonographics has changed for one.
I understand about the viruses, but I guess I have been very lucky as I have only had a couple of viruses ever, and I knew exactly who was doing the activity to get cause my office Network, and I had it contained pretty quickly. I know Macs. I think it is important to reiterate that I am teaching in a lower economic school. I am not using that as a slam or anything. On the contrary, the students level of computer competency is VERY low.
And as far as students messing up the desktop, does XP implement a MultiUser enviroment? Isn't there something like Remote Desktop? If you all suggesting that there is no way to manage each machine remotely? One thing I was VERY disappointed to find out about is that the software for At Ease for WOrkgroups was not compatible with Apple Share 6.3.1. In just a couple of days, I will have OS 10 Server and Apple Remote Desktop. I am REALLY hoping it answers some management challenges that I am having right now as I get the lab up to speed from reformating every computer over the summer. It is a time consuming process to manage 20 computers. If PCs do not have some sort of remote management, that is CERTAINLY a reason to stay.
Thanks for any adiditonal feedback. If I am to go back on what I jsut told him yesterday, I am going to need some meat!
Thanks!
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10-02-2003, 08:03 PM #9hokiethangGuest
Originally Posted by lokerd
On a side note, Best Buy is bringing back the macs, Our store here in Roanoke has them. And just because there is a chance that no one will ever use them again really isnt a reason to switch to PC. Use whatever will make things easier for you, because the software really doesnt change drastically from Mac to PC. I think teaching someone how to use a mac is a lot easier than teaching them to use a PC, but thats just my opinion. I still believe that using what the pro's use may be a better option for what you want to do, so that students can really decide if this is what they want to do. Why give them tools that are not used by most of the industry and expect them to get interested? If they arent interested in the first place, the choice between mac and PC won't matter, but for the few that do really get into it, having the experience with the mac would be invaluable.
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10-02-2003, 08:05 PM #10FomerGuest
Originally Posted by lokerd
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10-02-2003, 08:08 PM #11hokiethangGuest
Originally Posted by Fomer
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10-02-2003, 10:07 PM #12kundanGuest
Originally Posted by lokerd
I switched to mac about a year back, and have to use PCs at work, but I still like the relaxed feeling of working on my iMac - like watching a movie in a good leather recliner. No virus, no reboot every day, native Unix shell to kill bad programs, native telnet - I even like the Microsoft products for mac - like the Office X and Internet explorer - better than the same ones on the PC (like the way you can hide the IE bar).
You've gotta do what you've gotta do, but there's my 2 cents - and my first post in this forum.
cheers
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10-02-2003, 11:08 PM #13
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Welcome to the forums Kundan
Originally Posted by lokerd
Originally Posted by lokerd
But again if the professionals in your area and around your area are not using them.. then if/when your kids go to work in the industry, statistics show that the majority of them will stick around there and work there.
Originally Posted by lokerd
Is you need to act like every single one of those kids are going to pursue a career in photography and/or design and treat them as such. I know my teacher did and those of us that went to that profession, we were very thankful, and those that didnt complained a lot, but every last one of them now are really happy because they have skills that has actually helped them in their profession.. there is barely any vocation out there that can not take advantage of skills in design or photography.. Treat them all like this is what they are going to do for the rest of their life and you are getting them ready for it...
Originally Posted by lokerd
Anyways you're definitely on the right track and I know whatever decison you make will be a good one.. you've got a good head on your shoulders and Im happy to see teachers like you helping our kids
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10-03-2003, 02:20 PM #14CeeMacAddictGuest
I know this is kinda one sided but, I would like to see even in the smallest of citys or towns a place where Macs can grow from there 5% share of the Computer market, where students can see all the advantages of useing a Mac and where more people will use and buy a Mac
CeeMacAddict
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10-12-2003, 12:01 AM #15lokerdGuest
Originally Posted by Murlyn
Anyway, I was just curious if you knew...actually, I jut meant to ask you where the usergroup was for ARD? Also, do you know of one for OS 10 Server? I am pretty stuck on setting up the new server.
Thanks!
Drew
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