06-19-2007, 09:39 AM

Just food for thought,
I know this may sound selfish, but we should stop promoting Macs to Windows users. Stop saying that the hardware is not more expensive, the system is more reliable and there are no viruses for Macs.

Because as more Windows users switch to Mac, Mac's market share will go up and with a higher market share, sooner or later there would be a Mac Virus.

Come on, admit it, the only reason why macs don't have viruses is because the market share is too small, not because it runs on Unix or any other reasons, but because virus creators are simply too lazy to target Mac users. Now, when the market share gets bigger, some guy may just decide "Hey, look, the Mac's market share is getting bigger and bigger, why don't we create a Mac virus and have some fun?". In fact, it will be terribly funny to develop a virus for LEOPARD, just as the Mac's market is rising super quickly

And when this virus strikes, almost all of us will be infected. We are blinded by our own confidence that we forgo an anti virus program. How many of us actually use a anti virus program. I dare say less than 20 ppl would use such a program, and I will admit I am one of those who don't use any anti virus program for my Mac. (Except maybe for macscan, but that's more for spyware - Yes, there is spyware for macs)

So fellow Mac users, let's stop promoting our excellent OS to other users =)

06-19-2007, 09:44 AM

See what happens when you run out of coffee?

06-19-2007, 09:46 AM

I've thought about it more then once, but even if we all stopped promoting Macs, Apple would still advertise how great they are.

The way I see, we have two choices: stop promoting macs, and wait for a few years for the viruses to start, because Apple is still advertising. OR, keep promoting Macs and bring the viruses faster But, we get the satisfaction of knowing we converted a few people.

Either way, we'll have to get some protection eventually, the only difference is the (possible) amount of time it will take.

06-19-2007, 09:47 AM

I was just bored.. But don't you think this argument is valid to a certain extent at the very least?

06-19-2007, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by y04chs067

But don't you think this argument is valid to a certain extent at the very least?

No. The virus safety-through-obscurity myth has been exploded too often, and by Mac and systems experts, to repeat the reasons here.

06-19-2007, 09:55 AM

I have come to believe that 'security through obscurity' is a myth - at least as it applies to OS X.

Apple and the Mac community have long touted OS X as being malware-free. MS fanboys are chomping at the bit for some major exploit or virus to be released for the Mac. It hasn't come. I think the latest estimates put market share at something like 22 million installed users. It still hasn't come. Darwin (the OS X kernel) is open-source, freely available to be studied and exploited. It still hasn't come. Tutorials for installing hacked copies of OS X on non-Apple hardware are all over the Internet. It still hasn't come.

Wouldn't you think by now that some talented virus writer would come along and knock Apple's block off? It seems to me that it must not be that easy to do.

Also, aside from tracking cookies, what Spyware (executable software) exists for the Mac?

06-19-2007, 09:55 AM

so are you trying to imply that say we reach the current market share of Windows, there may still be no virus for Macs? Just because Mac Users are "generally nice"? or that Mac Software is rather secure?

06-19-2007, 09:57 AM

You would lose out on all the benefits that will come with increased popularity, like more software developers, ported games, more Mac related products and accessories, etc.

I'm taking this basic IT class and we've been talking about security. Some extremists worried about cyber-terrorism think we're overly dependent on IT and we should basically abandon network-based IT. My response was that it's all a balance of risk/reward. People who drive are more likely to get into a deadly accident than people who walk, but the risk is low so we drive. If the risk went up significantly, we would start walking more.

There may be threats of viruses, cyber terrorism or whatever you want to call it, but in reality the risk is very low and just being smart about what you do will keep you safe from 90% of the threats that target idiots. The "Slammer" and "Code Red" viruses were both designed to attack security weaknesses that had been identified and patched long before, but lazy people didn't update. Before switching to Macs I never had a virus problem with my computers because I was smart about how I used it and I didn't let idiots touch it.

We also discussed that the biggest myth in IT is the idea of total security. Nothing in the IT world is completely secure, NOTHING. There's always a way to find a workaround or reengineering. Apple users who think they are completely safe are just kidding themselves. The risk may be much lower, but it's there.

06-19-2007, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by y04chs067

so are you trying to imply that say we reach the current market share of Windows, there may still be no virus for Macs? Just because Mac Users are "generally nice"? or that Mac Software is rather secure?

I'm not saying that there will never be an OS X virus, but I think 'security through obscurity' is a myth. There are a heck of a lot of Macs out there, you'd think that there would be at least ONE virus by now if the only thing protecting OS X was that it was obscure. Especially since it's such a compelling platform to exploit based on the how frequently it is touted as being secure and virus-free.

06-19-2007, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by y04chs067

I was just bored.. But don't you think this argument is valid to a certain extent at the very least?

No. Virus writers have produced there wares for Windows with a minimum of effort, with no access to the source code. As has been pointed out Darwin is open source and still no viruses of any concern are around.

I'd rather the Mac gain popularity, software and support than we languish without that support and have to console ourselves that "at least we don't have any viruses."

Besides, the Mac will never reach Windows' popularity.

06-19-2007, 10:06 AM

benefits of increased popularity like more software developers? Personally I can't visualise Windows switchers coding Mac applications within a time frame of at least 1 year.

By mac users not promoting macs, we can slow down the possible treat of a virus. It's about slowing it down, instead of a rude abrupt call for Mac users that their system is not secure at all

Apple and the Mac community have long touted OS X as being malware-free. MS fanboys are chomping at the bit for some major exploit or virus to be released for the Mac. It hasn't come. I think the latest estimates put market share at something like 22 million installed users. It still hasn't come. Darwin (the OS X kernel) is open-source, freely available to be studied and exploited. It still hasn't come. Tutorials for installing hacked copies of OS X on non-Apple hardware are all over the Internet. It still hasn't come.

What's the 22 million when it is only about 2% of the world's computer market share (http://www.macrumors.com/2006/06/01/...-share-update/)

06-19-2007, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by y04chs067

What's the 22 million when it is only about 2% of the world's computer market share (http://www.macrumors.com/2006/06/01/...-share-update/)

That number doesn't take into account those that download and play with Darwin. It doesn't account for hacked copies. It doesn't account for older hand-me-down machines.

Even still, that's a huge number of machines. It's just my personal opinion that if it were as easy to do as it is for Windows, it would have been done by now.

I'm not trying to delude myself into believing that OS X is the be all and end all of security. I KNOW that there will eventually be viruses for it. But to say that the only reason there are not viruses is that the OS is too obscure is just silly. Second to Windows machines, what's the next OS that comes to the minds of the average Joe? Macintosh. That's not obscurity if the general public is aware of it.

06-19-2007, 10:17 AM

Then why not make the time before the "will eventually" last longer. What's the point of us promoting macs everyday? Why actually promote it?

06-19-2007, 10:20 AM

A Mac anti-virus application offers no protection, anyway.

David Pogue, a Mac expert, author of many Mac books and computer columnist for the New York Times, wrote a column correcting himself and apologizing for propagating the safety-through-obscurity myth.

I linked to it here because the Times requires a website subscription and password. It's near the bottom. If you run a page search for Pogue, you'll find it quickly.

Originally Posted by y04chs067

Then why not make the time before the "will eventually" last longer. What's the point of us promoting macs everyday? Why actually promote it?

Why not? With six billion people in the world, this Mac forum or any other doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

06-19-2007, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by fleurya

We also discussed that the biggest myth in IT is the idea of total security. Nothing in the IT world is completely secure, NOTHING. There's always a way to find a workaround or reengineering. Apple users who think they are completely safe are just kidding themselves. The risk may be much lower, but it's there.

There is a way to make a computer ssystem secure, do not take it out of the box it came in.