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Schweb's Lounge Forum for general conversation, chit chat, or most topics that don't fit in another forum.

For those who use both pc's and macs.


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Nightblade
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You know, Witeshark, I really want to know why you hate Microsoft so much. I'm a natural-born Mac user, but I've used the newest PCs, running Windows XP, and they're VERY fast and VERY good! Also, in just about every non-Apple test between a G5 and some other PC running Windows, the PC wins.

http://spl.haxial.net/apple-powermac-G5/ (This was actually written by a Mac-user, believe it or not)

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/06...cheating_over/


But, this doesn't mean that this is true, either. It's just more convincing than Apple's comparisons. But, if you don't believe this page, then you probably don't believe anything that's shown by benchmarks, period. That would mean that you shouldn't believe Apple either on the benchmarks. However, I did read something interesting somewhere about "the only way to do a fair comparison between a PC and a Mac is for them both to run Linux, as software written for both Windows and the Mac OS may be differently written, so that the performance of one appears to be better".

As for hating Microsoft...Well, they provide Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Entourage, Internet Explorer, Windows Media Player, and MSN Messenger for your Mac (as well as a few other minor applications, such as Remote Desktop Client). Word is far superior to Appleworks or Textedit (with all of its cool features, like the ability to change case, grammar corrector, superior linguistic corrections, etc.), and it's the same with Excel (being superior to Appleworks). Excel is better due to the "reference" system (which REALLY adds convenience) and the bigger supply of functions. Powerpoint actually might not be better than Keynote, though, from what I've heard. I have Keynote in addition to Powerpoint, but because I'm more used to Powerpoint I don't know if I'll ever use Keynote). Entourage is superior to Mail. I've tried Mail, and it's simply got less features. I know I might seem kinda silly not to name them, but I'm almost positive Entourage has more features. And Windows Media Player? Well, what else are you gonna use to play .wsf files, .wmv files, .wma files, and .asx files? Internet Explorer for Mac may be inferior to Safari, but before Safari Explorer was great. If you didn't use Microsoft's web browser, you would have to use something inferior like Netscape Navigator. As for MSN Messenger....While the Mac version may be inferior to iChat, how else are you gonna talk to the people who USE MSN? Well, you could use MSN clones, but don't forget that they all connect to the .net service, which was created by Microsoft. Also, Witeshark, you often use stability as an argument to flame Windows. But the thing is, XP is very stable. It seems to be about the same as OS X, actually. So, in terms of stability, the newest operating systems seem to be very stable, no matter what company makes it.

Also, you've got to admit that Microsoft wins in both the gaming field and the business field. I mean, there are not only have thousands of games written for Windows, but Microsoft itself made the X-Box in addition to Halo, which I've heard is an unbelievable game. As for business? Well, does Apple COME with Office? No, you have to buy it. And even when you do, you don't get Frontpage (a great web-designing program that comes with Office XP), Access (my favourite database-designing software that seems to be even better than Filemaker Pro. Even if someone says Filemaker Pro is better, don't forget that it's written for Windows too.), and other cool business softare. I've also heard about a program called Visio, which makes business diagrams (and yes, it's made by Microsoft). And what about Microsoft Money? From what I've heard, it's a better program than Quicken (which, by the way, is also available for Windows).

Look, I'm not trying to bash Apple or Macs in general. I'm just saying that you can't truly hate everything that's come out of Microsoft. No one can. They've made many fine products, and I'd like everyone to acknowledge that. And remember, I'm saying this as a natural-born Mac user.

And I'm really sorry if I offended anyone.
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witeshark

 
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Member Since: Mar 09, 2004
Location: Miami FL
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My main gripes are:
Every OS released way before debugging paying customers are debugging staff
Registry that is virtually indefensible - new worm almost, if not daily now. I know, I watch Norton and Cnet just to see if they can keep up, and my bro and I are maintaining my mom's xp. Longhorn must become a behemoth to begin security that I believe will fail without a Unix like rebuilding, and we call that Linux or BSD.
Sorry business/competition practise, all well documented
A list of error spash screens that would bring me to the verge of despair if I was a M$ coder
:rolleyes:
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Graphite

 
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wow.. someone feels they are the self proclaimed expert of making sure people agree the way they do.

To be honest i didn't read your entire post.. not really what i enjoy reading and what not.. though most of it seems milding possible to cut down or counter.. just like i am sure you could do or try to do the same. Though the one thing that caught my eye was the Halo microsoft creation... all I can say is.. M$ DID NOT CREATE HALO. Bungie did, if you followed either M$ or bungie you would know that around 00-01ish bungie was bought out by M$... halo was already in production by 97-98, though it was not ready to be released, it never was ready to be released, halo in 2001 was a horrible idea. M$ should be kicked in the face for it. So many exploits and bugs in it.. sigh* can't say I don't mind finding holes in the game, i just wish they weren't so abundant.

anyways.. m$ does not create games worth playing, bungie was the best before M$ and somehow they rnt that bad now. Halo 2, pure M$ involvement will i guess be the test.

anyways.. again.. people feel how they do for a reason, if it can be backed up by fact, then your wrong. if it can't well who knows.
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Nightblade
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Bungie created Halo? Well, I've never heard of Bungie, but yeah, I could see that. I'm sure I heard somewhere that Microsoft created Halo....Well, w/e. I've never used an X-Box before (or even a Gamecube for that matter) but from what I've heard, the X-Box is not an ugly creation. For people who like action and shooting games, it seems to be the best system.

As for security issues, yes, I've heard that Apple does tend to be ahead of Microsoft on that one. I wouldn't know first-hand, but most people tell me that security-wise OS X has the upper hand.

And the sneaky business techniques? Hey, I'm not saying Microsoft is an ethically good company or even that they haven't done evil. They have. They have done bad things, that are injust, wrong, and stealing. All I am saying is that their products aren't half-bad, regardless of what business practices made them. I now it sounds like a heartless moral on my part, but there's nothing anyone really can do. I mean, there's nothing particularly harmful about their products, so why not enjoy them, even if they used sneaky tactics to make 'em. Microsoft is one of the largest corporations in the world, and although good business tactics, low product prices, and thievery and mercilessness did help a lot to make them where they are today, product quality MUST have something to do with it. I mean, you really think 95% of the computer market would buy a Microsoft product only because it's cheaper? Just try to see both sides of every issue, alright? Sorry, it's just that I've gotten a bit tired of seeing Mac fanatics everywhere flat-out bashing the competition without solid, true evidence. I actually take offense to that. Just like the way I take offense to people bashing Macs.
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witeshark

 
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No solid evidence? I'm not sure where you're looking, I look at the Norton and Cnet sites, evidence by the truckload there alone :rolleyes:
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Graphite

 
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Were not arguing that Microsoft is an evil company, they still do alot of good for the community, just the products they create, are well.. junk. Though, I think they should stick with the console, i own the xbox, and i have to say... its beautiful for Halo.

www.bungie.net for information on Halo (Myth, Myth2, Oni, halo2)

I cannot stand M$ office, or any of their office apps... they all expect me to do things I don't want. Sigh* ide rather have just a regular text application but AppleWorks seems to be fairly good at not doing anything for me.

95% of the market WOULD NOT buy M$ because its cheaper. But 92% would. Think of it like this, someone buys a computer because its cheap. They find out its kinda crappy, but they already spent this much money in it. So they justify it buy buying more. Its called the buyers regret fallacy, people are dumb as bricks they think that if they buy something poor or invest in a down hill product it would be better, cheaper, or farther ahead to just stay in it, rather than just starting over.

I do not really think its mac fanatics bashing the competition with out a solid evidence. It really is the PC world bashing the Mac world and we defend ourselves. Hell we have 95% of the world against us. Only with Linux as an ally who actually understand our UNIX core. To be honest I know that Mac would be nothing with out M$. I mean really... they are why mac is so great... (im talking about mac having to create a perfect machine to even get a little money) If M$ wasnt so crappy and didnt have 95% of the market mac would never even dream of creating a machine better, and that would be the end of that chapter.
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jamin

 
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Just a few notes on the above posters comments on Halo and Office on Windows.
Halo was originally developed by Bungie to be a Mac only game. Microsoft Bought them out and made Halo Xbox Exclusive then brought out the XP version much later.
Windows XP does not come with Office. You have to purchase it seperate at something like $450.00.
FrontPage is not a good Web tool. It is for beginners who do not know how to make web pages. It riddles web pages with all sorts of IE specific Headers.
Outlook Although I must use it for Work Is very unstable. Constant crashes and bloated.
I really only like Word and Excel out of the whole suite.
I don't even use Office on my home PC. I use Open Office.org.

I do not have a Mac yet. I can't wait to dump Windows. Although XP is the most stable version Microsoft has ever had. I still have issues and reformat at least 2 times a year to clean out all the crap that gets put in the registry.
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Avalon

 
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Not only is Office sold apart from Windows, but also none of the Windows built-in texteditors (Notepad and Wordpad) can open a MS Word document.
Intersting enough, Mac OS X's built-in TextEdit can read, edit and save in MS Word format...without the need of MS Word or MS Office.
Outlook and Internet Explorer should simply not be used, neither on Windows nor on a Mac. Why? Well, simply for security reasons...
At work, I have to use Windows because of software compatibilities (AutoCAD, to name just one). And we use Mozilla as Browser and Emailclient. IE and Outlook are strictly forbidden.
If a webpage can't be viewed with Mozilla, it is not WWW-compliant (like lots of Frontpage-created sites), and for that is not worth visiting.
OpenOffice is fine on Windows (except incompatibilities with Excel macros) and Linux, but I tried in on my Mac, and it just simply sucks. It's running under X11, not Aqua-native, that means too slow and too instable. I hope that this will improve soon.
I was (and still am) working a lot on Windows, knowing all of the MS OSes (starting from DOS to XP) I can tell WinXP is the best Windows. But still way too far away from the best OS. It still carries some old luggage (just one word: registry!!) that keeps it from being really stable and still needs reinstalling every now and then. I personnally prefer Mac OS X, for the way it looks, the way it works, it's stability. And I don't blame or bash any Windows user, as I was one myself, and still partly am. But I like and prefer my Mac over any Windows machine, no matter what hardware's inside. And to be honest of all the Windows user I know, there is not a single one that doesn't complain about it...

And to the Xbox: I use it for gaming and for that, it is just geat.
Isn't it funny though that the Developper hardware for the future Xbox 2 is a PowerMac G5? Running a special NT-kernel (Windows NT existed also for PowerPC processors)...a top-of-the-line Apple running a 10 year old MS OS to develop games for a soon-to-come game console...
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hype.it

 
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Boots Redhat...
PSU Dies!

WTF!
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Matt
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Office is a must for every user of Windows and Mac OS. If Microsoft stopped supplying their software for Mac all of a sudden one day, Apples computer market would wither and die.
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hype.it

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt
Office is a must for every user of Windows and Mac OS. If Microsoft stopped supplying their software for Mac all of a sudden one day, Apples computer market would wither and die.
Not entirely true Matt. There is a percentage of users who refuse to use M$ products, others have no need for it. :p
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