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Schweb's Lounge Forum for general conversation, chit chat, or most topics that don't fit in another forum.

Why Do Mac users have chips on their shoulders?


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Stevejac
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I suppose I'm going to get flamed for this, but...

I've been a windows user starting w/ Windows 1.0. I've just bought an iBook. I like it. It's a good machine.

My XP box and XP notebook are good too. Most of the bad mouthing of Windows you read in this and other MAC forums is not relevant to Windows 2000 and XP. As far as I can see, the only clear advantage that MACs have is their lack of targeting by hackers. The time and effort I spend maintaining security on my MS machines is non-trivial.

Beyond that, neither OS has any particular advantage that I can see.

So, if you've bought a MAC, you've bought a wonderful machine. That, however, does not say anything about Windows, nor should it.

My question is this: why all the anti-ms comments? What do they accomplish? Do they make you feel better about the MAC? Given that the MAC is great, why bother?

Check out this article about people's behavior regarding digital cameras:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/choice.shtml

I think it applies here. In the mean time, I'd love to find a website for information for 'switchers' that dispensed with all the propganda.

Enjoy what you've got; ignore what you don't.

<<removing flame retardant clothing>>
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witeshark

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevejac
I suppose I'm going to get flamed for this, but...
<snip>
My question is this: why all the anti-ms comments? What do they accomplish? Do they make you feel better about the MAC? Given that the MAC is great, why bother? </snip>
<<removing flame retardant clothing>>
There are the obvious thoughts about the recent wormapalooza. But more importantly I think the Unix kernel based OS with permissions controls makes Mac/Linux more favorable to me. Windows market share is the single biggest reason it's targeted by those scum bag script kiddies and worm writers. But I just refuse to run at least 3 apps just for security -- and I find it alarming (well not me being no longer a user) that the new xp replacement has to be delayed to fix a vulnerability that should never have been in the present xp. I think windows was made by a guy who saw a neat idea and winged and look at the result! Yeah windows power users can keep things reined in but I choose 'Nix myself. BTW your new Mac needs a different kind of maintenance:
repair permissions. After every software update, and about every 2 weeks: close all apps and log totally off. Log on, go in Finder, Applications. Utilities, Disk Utility. After the message -getting disk information- select volume (below the hard drive name -upper left corner). Just highlight it. Now look to the lower two things are there near the middle, verify permissions, repair permissions. Click repair permissions. Also make sure you run cron tasks Finder, Applications. Utilities Terminal type (switching to root - superuser) sudo sh /etc/daily > this needs to be done /weekly (instead of daily) and monthly. again with all apps closed. Enjoy.
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Stevejac
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I think you're right about windows in that I agree, it seems that it was designed by folks who couldn't imagine some of the evil that goes on. But, if UNIX or Linux gains enough market share, won't it be vulnerable as well? I know that the open source process may make it more secure, but it also may not. If enough folks take aim at it, we'll see.

I had an old Win95 box last year that I used to play with Linux. Even though I'm pretty nerdy, it seemed more trouble that it was worth. It just was not user friendly enough. Perhaps I should view OS X as user friendly UNIX, because that's what it is.
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witeshark

 
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Yup, that's how I see it. As to a huge market share or such opening Linux to security problems, well that has happened and in the Linux questions forums (security) they have been addressed as they appeared. Since in Unix/Mac/Linux it's all about users and permissions the big problem was what are called rootkits - outsiders finding nasty tricks to access root privileges
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TylerMoney
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I ran 2000 prof for a long while, and I have been running xp prof for about 1.5 years...there aren't as many problems as 95, 98, or ME, but I find there are still many more problems than I've had with my mac. I like the feel, look, design, and opportunities the mac os gives me over the windows os. Like I've said before, I don't hate window, I still use windows, I just like mac better....I'm using both as we speak, so I think it says something that I still like my mac better.

I was specificly a pc user up until I started school 1.5 years ago...aside from elementary when we use macs. So if I ever bash windows, I have a right to, cause it probably coincides with problems I am having with my pc at that specific time. Once again, I don't hate windows or pc's, just think they could be better...and that better is my mac.
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Brown Study

 
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I dislike Microsoft because the parallels with the Romans are legion. The term evil empire was not coined for nothing, and Windows is nothing if not Byzantine.

Little that the Romans did was original; they stole their art, their archetecture, their laws, their philosophy and nearly everything else from others, and trampled on everyone and everything to carve out their world dominion. But because they didn't have an original thought in their heads, most on that list was second and third rate -- and they knew it.

But this knowledge of their failings only fed their rapaciousness so they displayed their so-called accomplishments by grinding down the populations with their annual tributes to the emperor, first with the denarius, then with MasterCard.

You can look it up.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevejac
Check out this article about people's behavior regarding digital cameras:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/choice.shtml

I think it applies here. In the mean time, I'd love to find a website for information for 'switchers' that dispensed with all the propganda.

Enjoy what you've got; ignore what you don't.
I totally agree. Around the end of the last decade I got frustrated with the windows crashes (win 98 and win me), but then I switched to the NT platform and then XP. It has been pretty good. Then, last month, I saw the powerbook. I liked the looks of it and the screen as well. I researched it and found that I can run Virtual PC on it so I went ahead with it. I guess I am that sort of a person who likes to try new things. I hadn't touched a Mac before this, and I went ahead and bought a 2000 laptop! But I like it. Both are good in their own ways.

ps- that article on behaviour and the included link was Gr8!
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Beatles4Life

 
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I don't like Windoze because every time I use a computer with 'Doze, it crashes on me or freezes up or does some other weird thing that is unexplainable.

Oddly enough, it never happens to anyone else in my family. I don't think Windoze likes me. :rolleyes:

After years of frustration, I switched to a Mac. Now I'm as happy as a clam, and I have an awesome computer. My only regret is that I wish I'd switched sooner.

"Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted" - John Lennon.
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witeshark

 
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I actually have times that it's hard to believe what we have with Mac. Unix, BSD and a powerful command line and even Perl to boot!
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Absolute Zero

 
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"My question is this: why all the anti-ms comments? What do they accomplish? Do they make you feel better about the MAC? Given that the MAC is great, why bother?"

I too would like this answer! I am a long time Mac user. What pisses me off is this fanboyism to the Mac. These Microsoft bashers give us Mac users a bad name. It's a computer! Mac OS X is an OS! Windows is an OS! There both fantastic! For some, Windows don't support their needs, and others Mac OS X don't support their. You can give me all this "doz sucks, I'm happy to be a Mac user, what the hell, theres nothing good about doz, your crazy AZ, yadayada repair permissions crap, and give me 50 reasons why doz sucks and why Mac OS X owns doz. You'll just be making a donkey of yourself.

4:20 in the morning. Gotta go to sleep now. Heh.
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TylerMoney
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Your always saying the zero, and everytime, I point out I never say anti things, just more positive things about mac...I am currently using both...so my say is pretty accurate, at least for me.
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witeshark

 
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I have not gone overboard with anti M$ comments - I firmly believe that. But most Mac users have been windows users and some still are. If ever I say anything against M$ it's because of the umpteen times I found myself on the verge of tears in frustration over a worthless, idiotic crash, a frozen screen where the mouse pointer won't even move and the keyboard is ignored (no CTRL - ALT - DLT) And a force power off, wait for reboot and that God awful windows has detected an improper shutdown Windows will now scan all disks for errors and WAIT AND WAIT.... If ever anyone bashes an os of such sorry quality - clearly released WAY before it was debugged and even now the latest greatest xp is being patched for some 20 stupid flaws Criticism for such performance combined with M$ business practice is very well deserved and in no way gives Mac users a bad name some of us had to bury the money we spent on pc/doz and spend again from scratch to get new to both cause Linux isn't quite up to speed to keep an i86 box! I don't wanna hear about it anymore! Maybe I am reacting a lot here, but just the thought of the times I had nightmare/torture problems in windows brought up some sad memories of frustration that I payed good money for! How many of us are using Mac because we got sick of problems? Now if you throw in the last worm fest and the well known spyware problem... I'd say that's enough...
PS: This is even the subject of a segment of tonights Screen Savers...
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Absolute Zero

 
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Jesus Christ whiteshark... stop acting like Mac OS X is so freaking perfect. Because it's not. Yes, OS X scans for disk errors when you shut it down improperly, it just doesn't show it.
Everything else you said, you were just really emo.
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witeshark

 
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Nothing is perfect and I have never said that. But I think it's pretty clear that Mac OS X is better then any windows flavor. Win 3.1 was better then 95/98... But yeah, I had many bad times in windows so I have strong feelings about it - - after all we payed good money only yo be repeatedly let down and I spent months fixing 95 and tweaking the registry... All stuff that should have been right in the first place. If you have a doz machine, tell me it's good points, one of my best friends still uses only windows and I respect that. But there is more then enough evidence that it's not always as good as a pricey closed source OS should be -- and always released before properly tested
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WilliS
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I am a mac user.

I have a chip on my shoulder.

Happy?

------------------------------------------------------

actually, most mac users, are former pc users. we took a stab in the dark and tried out mac, only to love it. we tell our friends to use mac, and they just laugh at us and make fun of mac... with no real reason behind it. so yes, i have a chip on my shoulder... i am a mac user... i was bold enough to give something a shot that wasnt mainstream... it wasnt "popular" with all the computer gamers in the school... but guess what? it works just as good.

so here i am.. getting laughed at by pc users for using a mac... but they are far ignorant on the subject, so i just stand proud... and when they try to say how god awful mac is, i just chuckle because if they really wanted to debate, i could talk circles around them in any aspect of computing they would like.

did i mention i had a chip on my shoulder?

hehe actually, its returning the favor really... many mac users are quite tired of hearing 95% of the population disagree with their choice in a computer. but we are quite happy with mac's progress, and frankly, for being such a small portion of the market, apple sure has a competitive
product.
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