01-30-2007, 03:34 AM

He has been using a B&W Mac and gets on very well with it. He has learning difficulties, but finds the Mac easier to use than Windows. There where no associated problems with it either, like viruses, spyware so I got an easier time.

He is on the look out for a laptop and has £500.00 to spend. He said he would be interested in a Mac laptop but looking at the prices its way too much.

Its such a shame Apple cannot bring their prices inline with regular laptops. I am sure Apple would sell double the amount.

I think the price puts a lot of people off that first purchase becuase if you dont like it, its a costly mistake.

With Vista now being splattered all over the web its an ideal time for Apple to be promoting themselfs and what better time than to bring out an Apple inline with regular pricing.

What are your thoughts on this?

01-30-2007, 06:15 AM

Perhaps visiting a discount Mac retailer available through the majesty of the interweb would be beneficial? You can pick up a used ibook or powerbook for a phenominal savings, and it'll still likely operate much better than your standard 'Windows' PC. If Apple dropped the price of their newer machines, that would mean they might have to sacrifice something along the way. I'd rather pay a bit of a premium to ensure that what I'm purchasing is a quality product. But that's just my opinion.

01-30-2007, 06:47 AM

Thank you for the reply.

01-30-2007, 06:50 AM

I guess a lot of people have read various news reports on the iPhone; from those news stories I found one point that causes me the biggest problem and that would be that Apple like to see large profit margins on their products, with the iPhone offering as much as 50% profit on each unit. Perhaps Apple are happy to do the same on their computer products?

I haven't read what the profit margin of a macbook is for Apple and perhaps someone can provide that info if they have it.

I certainly hope that the premium we pay for Apple hardware is because they spend so much ensuring that Mac buyers get the very best - as well as funding work on the OS.

ANYWAY - its always worth checking out the refurb pages on the Apple web site - you can make some decent savings through this avenue - and it's still got a 12 month warranty and you can buy Apple care at any point in the first 12 months just as you can with a New [read not refurbished] Apple product.

01-30-2007, 07:15 AM

50% does seem fairly steep. The only reasonable argument one could make is that perhaps they reward their employees with that profit. Because happy engineers make great products, just as well paid tech support folks don't seem to mind so much when you ask them the same inane questions over and over. But 50%? Wow.

01-30-2007, 07:25 AM

I suggest you look around different forums, looking at the classified section. That is where you will get the best deal, I bought my 1.83Ghz Macbook for £550 and it came with the 3 year extended warranty. Plus it was only ~6 weeks old so I got a bargain.

I too wish they would drop the prices a bit, that way I can buy another and keep my current one. Yes, I am hooked.

01-30-2007, 07:36 AM

Well the price comparisons I've seen, matching features in both hardware and software, have placed the prices either very similar between PC's and Macs or sometimes with macs on the cheaper side. If they were to lower the prices they'd have to lower the spec - And, therefore, the interest in their products.

01-30-2007, 09:18 AM

Apple will charge what they choose to charge for their products.. If we choose to pay it or not. You get what you pay for.

01-30-2007, 11:02 AM

adrian29uk,

Has he considered a reconditioned machine? I just bought a reconditioned MacBook through Apple. The price was lower than that for a new machine. It's my first Mac and I'm keeping it. ^_^

Plusses and minuses on a reconditioned machine?

PLUSSES

* It cost less than if it was new, about US$400 less or about £200 less (current exchange rate from American Express). This made the difference between trying a Mac and getting another Windows machine.

MINUSES

* The machine is actually just a slight bit behind the new line. This one has a 2.0GHz "Core Duo" processor chip. Currently Apple uses the newer "Core 2 Duo" processor chip. Does it matter? I don't think it really does, at least for me.

* There are two blemishes or imperfections with my machine, but they're minor. The track pad on my MacBook was sticking up on one corner, to the point where it took a bit of the non-reflective coating off of the screen when the machine was closed. A bit of super glue and the track pad was back down, working just fine. The screen has a shiny spot from where the coating was removed, not noticed while actually working with the machine. For a brand new machine I would be unhappy. At $400 less, the blemishes are nothing.

I'd recommend a reconditioned machine directly through Apple. You get a fine machine at a very good price. If there's something wrong with it, return it (check the return policy for the UK). At worst if it isn't what he wants, he can always sell it and get a good price for it.

Good luck!

01-30-2007, 11:26 AM

Be careful making judgments based on margins. A $1,000 computer with a 50% margin costs $500 to build. That doesn't take into account all the non-manufacturing costs associated with it, like sales, overhead, marketing, R&D, etc. Apple is a publicly traded company, it shouldn't be too hard to find their net margin, which is what percentage of their income actually was left over at the end of a fiscal year.

When I decided to buy my MBP, I was comparing it to Dell, HP, Toshiba, and Lenovo notebooks. Feature for feature, the Apple didn't seem particularly expensive. The difference is that the other companies tend to make very low-end machines to advertise cheap prices, while Apple doesn't have anything like that.

But as long as we're wishing, I wish Porche would lower their prices. I really want a 911 Turbo 4.

01-30-2007, 11:43 AM

ToddG is right on track with his post. Apple, Dell, HP, even Porche... pretty much any manufacturer of anything we buy puts a gigantic retail markup on their goods. That $1000 computer probably only costs the company $150-$200 to make. That $50,000 car only costs the company maybe $4000 to produce. Retail markups can easily be 10 times as much or more than what the actual production cost is.
This however, doesn't mean that the company always pockets this "extra" cash. The money goes to fund all sorts of operating costs, R&D, marketing, and basically a multitude of other 'non-operational' costs before the company even sees a dime of profit.
Items that cost more generally do because there is much more time, effort, research, planning, etc. that goes into the production of it. The price doesn't come down until the market becomes saturated with that item, or the demand disappears. The market is far from being saturated with Macs, nor is the demand for them decreasing in any way. Therefore, don't expect any drastic drop in price from Apple. Just remember that you are paying for proven, time-tested quality and solid support from a company that does stand behind its products.
It all comes back to the old proverb, "you get what you pay for".

01-30-2007, 12:41 PM

DB your proverb was stated 3 posts ago.

01-30-2007, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by moss918

Well the price comparisons I've seen, matching features in both hardware and software, have placed the prices either very similar between PC's and Macs or sometimes with macs on the cheaper side. If they were to lower the prices they'd have to lower the spec - And, therefore, the interest in their products.

Yup fair point, I thought this read had some 'foundation' to it Windows 5x More Expensive than Mac OS X. Although it doesn't really compare initial cost of the hardware. However the costs do take into consideration things like Anti-Virus costs - which do add up over a couple of years.

Originally Posted by kodorsean

...
You get what you pay for.

Originally Posted by D3v1L80Y

...
It all comes back to the old proverb, "you get what you pay for".

I guess you can't really argue with that. This older article which compares PC pricing to Apple Pricing initially says the same thing:

"Clearly, the price tags for PCs are lower -- at least at the low end," says Macworld editor-in-chief Jason Snell.

"However, we recently tested the speed of high-end Macs and PCs, and they're comparable -- for comparable prices -- in many areas. So, it's probably most realistic to say that while the cheapest PCs cost less than the cheapest Macs, the cheapest Macs are probably comparable with PCs that cost a similar amount," he told NewsFactor.

"In other words, as usual, you get what you pay for."

However the article is from 2003 and is referring to PPC architecture and I think the prices of Apple hardware has fallen since it's adoption of Intel CPUs and related hardware, so the results may be even better now.

Interestingly and probably quite honestly the article pretty much ends by saying that the total cost of ownership is pretty much the same on either side of the fence over a 5 year period. (After taking into account things like support costs)

Originally Posted by ToddG

Be careful making judgments based on margins. A $1,000 computer with a 50% margin costs $500 to build. That doesn't take into account all the non-manufacturing costs associated with it, like sales, overhead, marketing, R&D, etc. Apple is a publicly traded company, it shouldn't be too hard to find their net margin, which is what percentage of their income actually was left over at the end of a fiscal year.

When I decided to buy my MBP, I was comparing it to Dell, HP, Toshiba, and Lenovo notebooks. Feature for feature, the Apple didn't seem particularly expensive. The difference is that the other companies tend to make very low-end machines to advertise cheap prices, while Apple doesn't have anything like that.
...

After reading a couple of the responses and looking at a couple of web pages; I take back my initial connotation that 'Apple may just be out for your money', which I didn't really say but perhaps I sub-consciously implied it. I guess the end result is that you do indeed get what you pay for, but perhaps more importantly; you should get what you need - if you need a Mac - then that's what you should get. Or if you want a Mac because you just like them - then get it anyway

01-30-2007, 07:17 PM

Did much research prior to buying my MBP. The primary issue with Apple pricing I found from a consumer standpoint, is they have no low end machines. Especially in regard to the processor in their notebooks.

Look at the $1299 Mac Book - has a Core 2 Duo 2.0 Ghz processor. Now, my personal opinion is that the processor is the primary importance in assuring that your computer will have a lifetime comensurate with the money paid. All the other items from RAM to HD are easily upgradeable.

When you look at the other manufacturers to check their price point to get this same processor, you will find some amazing numbers. Here are some I found only looking for the least expensive laptop with the same processor.
Toshiba.........$2,399
Sony............$1,559
HP...............$1,009 - won't find this one in the stores though, special order of their $629 notebook with the upgrade to the processor and I added built in camera
ACER...........No online pricing at their website, only checked a couple of retailers, found the 1.83 Ghz for $1,899
Dell.............$1,039
Gateway.......$1,106, with current $150 discount, Regular $1,256

If you go comparing in the retail stores, keep in mind the 2.0 averages about a $200 upgrade from the 1.6 for most of the manufacturers.
None of the cheaper laptops noted above can be found through retail outlets, they must be ordered online.

01-30-2007, 07:24 PM

As bad as it may sound, I think Apple's prices keep the "elite Mac users" in the Mac family and the closed-minded PC users out. Not that they don't want new users, but when everyone and their sister has a Mac, they won't be so intriguing anymore.