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Schweb's Lounge Forum for general conversation, chit chat, or most topics that don't fit in another forum.

Europe vs. Oz


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Checco

 
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Hey there guys,

I'd like to get an opinion. I'm considering a relocation to either Europe (likely Italy) or Australia some time in the future. Permits are taken care of, so no issue there, nor is language...but the choice is.

Lots of factors to take into account, such as culture, economy, lifestyle, cost, etc. Without actually living there for a good while, it's difficult to really know where you're going. And within each, life will be different from place to place.

Can you guys give opinions on these two options? For those living there, what are the good and bad parts?

I somehow can't keep from thinking that the States would be the 'ideal' option, if it was one, as it seems almost infinite - something for everyone somewhere! Europe is great because it's central in a sense and there is such cultural diversity virtually on your doorstep. Australia on the other hand seems to be doing well and appears to be kind of a mini-USA, although I think it relies quite heavily on natural resources. A decent future looks almost certain in both and although Europe is battling now, I believe its depth will pull it though.

Thoughts and opinions?
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vansmith

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Checco View Post
I somehow can't keep from thinking that the States would be the 'ideal' option, if it was one, as it seems almost infinite - something for everyone somewhere!
There's something for everyone everywhere. Every country/area is infinite in the things to explore and experience. Culture is much too complex and dispersed in much of the world for one person to absorb all of it in any given period of time. So, I'm sure that doesn't help answer your question but it should help in reassuring you that no matter the place, it won't be boring if you seek things out.

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Originally Posted by Checco View Post
Australia on the other hand seems to be doing well and appears to be kind of a mini-USA, although I think it relies quite heavily on natural resources.
If the Aussies are anything like Canadians, they're not going to like being called mini versions of someone else. Good luck with that.

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Checco

 
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Originally Posted by vansmith View Post
So, I'm sure that doesn't help answer your question but it should help in reassuring you that no matter the place, it won't be boring if you seek things out.
Thanks for the reply. True, although I think overall it needs to be 'compatible' with a person's culture though - holiday is one thing, but permanent is a bit more...permanent! That's what makes it so hard, especially when there's a choice involved. Also, it's very easy for the choice to become emotional to a degree, but then again, is that necessarily a bad thing?

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If the Aussies are anything like Canadians, they're not going to like being called mini versions of someone else. Good luck with that.
I think they are and I probably haven't been bombarded with responses because it's the middle of the night there! I mean it only in a positive sense though - the US has done well, pretty much the benchmark in terms of success, well, traditionally at least.
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harryb2448

 
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Nah go to the States.

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pigoo3

 
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Originally Posted by harryb2448 View Post
Nah go to the States.
Nah...we have enough troublemakers here! Australia was "made" for troublemakers!

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Have family in Italy. It's nice to visit as a tourist, but not to live. If I were to relocate, I would move to a place that has a great economy...yes, it does exist, and Italy is the last place on my list.

Here's a cool/informative list of many various rankings: Country Rankings 2013 - Country comparisons, Economy, Geography, Climate, Natural Resources, Current Issues, International Agreements, Population, Social Statistics, Flags, Maps, Political System

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jdsheepdog

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vansmith View Post
If the Aussies are anything like Canadians, they're not going to like being called mini versions of someone else. Good luck with that.
You certainly have that right, cobber! Americans coming here should realise that:

Australia had, until recently, elected an unmarried female atheist as Prime Minister.
She and her boyfriend (the "First Bloke") lived together in the official PM's residence.
Australia had (until recently) a brilliant gay woman minister of finance.
Australia has extremely restrictive gun laws.
Australia now has a misogynistic Prime Minister who delights in parading around in budgie smugglers, and does not believe in global warming.
Australia does not play Baseball (isolated exceptions exist) but instead plays Cricket, a game beyond the capacity of Americans to comprehend.
Australians do not wear padding when playing football, and play a generally rougher game, that does not permit half the team to run away when the whistle is blown, so a whole new bunch can come on.

And a few other things that typically make Americans shiver in fear or embarrassment.

On the good side, the food's great, but expensive, the beer is cold, and the surf's up. What else matters?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsheepdog View Post
On the good side, the food's great, but expensive, the beer is cold, and the surf's up. What else matters?
What else matters??...something VERY VERY important...the women (Sheila's)!!!

I pretty much know there's no problem there...you just didn't mention it!

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jdsheepdog

 
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Yeah, you are right of course,silly of me. I also forgot to mention some other things that Americans don't seem to understand or want either, like universal education, and universal health care, and while I think it is a pretty conservative country, to most Americans it seems like a wild eyed socialist haven.
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jdsheepdog

 
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I do apologise for the broad brush, I will admit to indulging the Australian penchant for hyperbola. I lived in Canada for many years, very close to you, actually, in the Gulf Islands and one of our favourite occupations when really bored was telling tall stories to Americans. It was not particularly praiseworthy, and not really very much fun, a bit like shooting ducks in a barrel.

It did show however the remarkable insularity of many Americans, even down to amazement that the coins in Canada were different.

Also, I do not for a moment pretend that Australia is without it's faults as a society. For a start, the beer swilling, fat bellied, utterly ignorant and xenophobic Australian is all too real. The economic divide, while not as extreme as the US is heading that way, and from the same reactionary greed driven pressures.

And, every time there is a decent wave, it is decided that some idiot might drown, so they close the beaches, just in case.
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Checco

 
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Some very interesting and funny responses, thanks guys!

Quote:
Originally Posted by iggibar View Post
Have family in Italy. It's nice to visit as a tourist, but not to live. If I were to relocate, I would move to a place that has a great economy...yes, it does exist, and Italy is the last place on my list.

Here's a cool/informative list of many various rankings: Country Rankings 2013 - Country comparisons, Economy, Geography, Climate, Natural Resources, Current Issues, International Agreements, Population, Social Statistics, Flags, Maps, Political System
Thanks for the link. That's the issue with Italy, not a great economy at the moment and doing business isn't the easiest - Italians in business can be as complicated as they come. Culture away from business is great though (I'm the son of an Italian immigrant and my wife is a native Italian), not to mention great for a Catholic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsheepdog View Post
On the good side, the food's great, but expensive, the beer is cold, and the surf's up. What else matters?
LOL!

Quote:
Originally Posted by chas_m View Post
To (finally) answer the OP's question, of the two I'd personally be inclined to pick Australia for living, though I love Italy and would visit there again in a heartbeat.
Thanks for the opinion. Possibly Australia is better for building a life, raising a family, etc. and Italy remains for holidays and retirement. Thirty-eight and thinking about retirement already?!? Now I sound like a true Italian!

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Originally Posted by jdsheepdog View Post
And, every time there is a decent wave, it is decided that some idiot might drown, so they close the beaches, just in case.
That's one of the difficult aspects. Quite a bit, or sometimes too, controlling. Coming from a country where you are largely free to live your life (not lawlessly), being expected not to think can be quite a challenge.

Thanks again everyone for your input. Emigration isn't an easy decision and having options is fortunate, although it makes the choice a lot more difficult. If the choice could be made purely on logic alone, it would be quite simple. But, since we're emotional beings, that side of us also needs to be taken care of - and the logical and emotional sides don't necessarily agree. Honestly, how often do they? It seems that younger people tend to be more logical/clinical, whereas those that are older seem to be less clinical and consider the emotional side a little more (just look at grandparents with their grandchildren). Maybe therein lies the answer. Nothing in life is permanent, nor absolute and there is a time (and possibly a related place) for everything.
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Originally Posted by Checco View Post
It seems that younger people tend to be more logical/clinical, whereas those that are older seem to be less clinical and consider the emotional side a little more (just look at grandparents with their grandchildren).
I think that's the first time I've ever heard someone say that young people are more clinical/rational.

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Checco

 
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Quote:
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I think that's the first time I've ever heard someone say that young people are more clinical/rational.
Sorry, let me put that into context. Now this is just my personal experience so if anyone is offended by the following, I apologise.

I'm referring to young professionals (college/university degree typically) or business-owners that are usually passionate about what they do and have huge drive to succeed. These people will tend to look at things logically before emotionally, it comes with the territory. I classify myself within this group.
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jdsheepdog

 
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Checco, if you come to Australia with an Italian attitude you will get along fine. Come with an American attitude, not so easy.

The post WW II wave of migrants from mostly Italy and Greece (Melbourne is the second largest Greek city in the world) came with nothing, hunkered down, worked hard and built lives and families that are now an integral part of the Australian mosaic, as did, a little later, the Spanish, central European, and Maltese.

The country would simply not be the place it is now, the good parts that is, without them.

If you can bring enthusiasm, an ability to cope with cultural differences that can be at times surprising, despite the veneer of a (nearly) common language, and yes, a little money, you will do fine.
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Checco

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsheepdog View Post
If you can bring enthusiasm, an ability to cope with cultural differences that can be at times surprising, despite the veneer of a (nearly) common language, and yes, a little money, you will do fine.
Thanks for the encouragement! Certainly lots of enthusiasm and desire to play our part, we were brought up that way. I've spent most of my life within a community of immigrants - the first generation tended to stick together, so growing up you'd be right in the thick of it. Our generation is a little different, softer if you will, but still some hard workers around.

But I hear the Aussies can be a little anti-immigrant, how widespread is it?
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