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Schweb's Lounge Forum for general conversation, chit chat, or most topics that don't fit in another forum.

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fak119

 
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...does the Apple community think about PRISM, etc.?

See http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...sm-slide-8.jpg
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harryb2448

 
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Simple.

Don't think about it at all.

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iggibar

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harryb2448 View Post
Simple.

Don't think about it at all.
Ditto.

“If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the thing itself but to your own estimate of it; and this you have the power to revoke at any moment.” Marcus Aurelius
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Raz0rEdge

 
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Thread moved - please read the forum descriptions before posting..

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fak119

 
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Thread moved - please read the forum descriptions before posting..
Is there a forum for complaints against being spied on by Computer companies?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fak119 View Post
Is there a forum for complaints against being spied on by Computer companies?
There is a forum to post general topics of discussion that aren't directly related to an Apple product..and that's the Schweb's Lounge, where I moved this post..

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Slydude

 
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Originally Posted by fak119 View Post
Is there a forum for complaints against being spied on by Computer companies?
You could complain in the forums but if you have a goal of changing that situation you're going to have to complain to the political leaders charged with making those kinds of decisions.

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fak119

 
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I do not want to complain here, I sked for the opinion of others !
It seems that it leaves the majority cool...
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I certainly don't fit in that category. I've heard too many people in interviews recently who don't mind simply because they disagree with certain groups and think those are the only targets. The reality is though that the kind of change you're talking about is not going to come because people complain in Internet forums. It will come because people complain peacefully to the decision makers.

I also think that any complaints are going to have to include reasonable suffusions for collecting legitimate data needed to defend against folks who are legitimate threats wherever they may come from.

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An interesting read on how harmless "it's just metadata" is.

Using Metadata to find Paul Revere - Kieran Healy

Personally, I'm not big a Stasi like surveillance. However, most people are more worried about healthcare, gay marriage, the Kardashians and taxes to give it much thought. If you voted Republican or Democrat in the last 13 years, you've more or less supported those who support this. Getting butt-hurt over it doesn't help if it doesn't lead to any real action. Things generally get really ugly before people with power we have given them give it back - see Syria, Egypt, etc... I don't believe the public cares enough to take back responsibility on this, so it likely won't change and I likely won't give it much thought for now. Wake me up when a million American souls surround the capitol and demand answers "or else". Short of that, it's not worth the energy to worry about.

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Let's make something clear first: we are not "the" Apple community. We are "a" community of mostly Apple users. Just a bunch of mostly-great folks.

Your question is much more complex than you probably realised in posting it, and there's not a simple answer to it, as we have to address the balance of security and liberty and these are topics near and dear to Americans' hearts (but not always consistently applied ... lots of cognitive dissonance on these topics to put it mildly).

My general feeling is that most people are uncomfortable with the level of surveillance revealed in the reports, but understand that some level of this sort of stuff is needed to prevent attacks and threats from being carried out. The question is in the amount, the balance, the protection of civil liberties and the safeguards from abuse. Alas, as both the program itself and the authorities overseeing it are secret, there's no way for citizens to even *influence* these factors, which is where a lot of the discomfort comes from. In short it's not a black/white sort of issue.

I do find, as a former US resident who now lives outside the US, that there's a bit of a disconnect with America pushing American-style democracy all over the world while simultaneously undermining the concept with more secrecy and less accountability. These things seem to me to be contrary to the country's founding values.

I would bet that if (not every technique, but generally) the PRISM program had been offered and explained up front, with an honest discussion of the pros and cons, and even put up for a vote, the US public would have approved most of it. The need for the secret courts and secret body of law, in particular, seems fundamentally un-American to me -- particularly now.

I accept that I don't know all the facts on this matter but here's the rub: I can't know all the facts apparently. Given what America means to me (and I think most people), this is a troubling situation.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chas_m View Post
I do find, as a former US resident who now lives outside the US, that there's a bit of a disconnect with America pushing American-style democracy all over the world while simultaneously undermining the concept with more secrecy and less accountability.
I would say that most governments are structured like this. Our own government for instance balances the same disconnect - it espouses freedom and democracy for all but is tightly regulated and operates within a mandate that focuses on certain things that might be considered undemocratic. After all, I'm not sure Harper is known for openness.

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