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Two kinds of morality


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kowalskil

 
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TWO KINDS OF MORALITIES, MARXIST VERSUS THEOLOGICAL


I am reading interesting comments about communist morality, in a book devoted to Judaism, published in 1975. The authors are two rabbis, D. Prager and J. Telushkin. A Christian theologian would probably make similar observations.

Marxists and theologians, they write, "are both motivated by the desire to perfect the world and establish a utopia on earth. ... Both promote all-encompassing worldviews. But they diametrically oppose one another in almost every other way." The authors remind us that communists rejected "all morality derived from nonhuman [i.e. God] and nonclass concepts," as stated in 1920 by Lenin. ... "Marxist morality sanctions any act so long as that act was committed in the interest of [economic and political] class struggle." Nothing that Stalin, and Mao did was immoral, according to such ideology.

Theologians, on the other hand, hold "that morality transcends economic, national, and individual interests." God's commandments are objective rather than subjective. Evil human acts are condemned, no matter what economic or political gains are derived from them. That is the essential difference. Greed in human nature, they emphasize, "may have helped create capitalism, but capitalism did not create greed in human nature."

Theologians also deplore social injustice. But they reject brutal proletarian revolutions because "the roots of evil and injustice lie not in economics or society but in man himself." This has to do with the concept of freedom. "For Marxism, which conceives of the world in materialist terms, bondage is defined solely as servitude to external sources such as slave owners, capitalist bosses, or other forms of material inequality. Freedom is liberation from such servitude." People, as stated in the Communist Manifesto, written by Marx and Engels, must get rid of economic chains binding them. Then they will automatically cease to be evil.

Theologians, on the other hand, see two kinds of liberation, from external and from internal bonds. "Once liberation from external servitude takes place, one must then liberate oneself from internal domination, the domination of one's life by passions, needs, irrationality and wants." The conflict between theologians and Marxists "is not economic, it is moral." Proletarian dictatorship was practiced in several countries; the results show that "when Marxist revolutionaries attain power they are at least as crual as their predecessors."

Philosophical differences about morality, among different kinds of theologians, are minimal, as far as I know. But attempts to impose morality are not very successful. Why is it so? What can be done to improve the situation, to bring our reality a little closer to "utopia" dreams?

Ludwik

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Sadly, evil will always inhabit the heart of man, or of some. If the simple Golden Rule was applied universally, there would be no evil.
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Why?

Human beings are human beings period. Hence all the pedophile problems in many major religions. There are good Communists same as good Christians and Muslims. Same with bad.

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Why are you trolling so many forums by posting/pasting the same EXACT thing?? You posted on many debate forums, war forums, us boards, and more, but somehow felt the need to post this on a computer/tech-related forum? Weird.

“If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the thing itself but to your own estimate of it; and this you have the power to revoke at any moment.” Marcus Aurelius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iggibar View Post
Why are you trolling so many forums by posting/pasting the same EXACT thing??
Because I want to learn from people who know more than I know. Fortunately, Internet makes this possible.

Ludwik

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@kowalskil

Please limit your signature line in accordance with our forum guidelines. No free advertising of your works or other accomplishments are allowed. Thanks.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chscag View Post
@kowalskil

Please limit your signature line in accordance with our forum guidelines. No free advertising of your works or other accomplishments are allowed. Thanks.
The signature has just been changed, as requested.

Ludwik

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Noted. Thanks.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harryb2448 View Post
Why?
What?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kowalskil View Post
What can be done to improve the situation, to bring our reality a little closer to "utopia" dreams?
There. Edited out the fluff. Now I'm a bit closer to Utopia. I don't like people setting me up to play games built around custom goal posts they themselves erected.

Hey, maybe there's something to be gotten (towards reaching Utopia) from that?


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What a false dichotomy... It's infantile the way that some hardcore religious types selectively cherry-pick data to support an impression of Theist = Good, Atheist = Bad.

The problem with humans is not God (whether or not such a being exists), it's humans themselves!

For my purposes as an engineering undergraduate; Windows is respectable (& generally necessary), Linux is admirable (& often useful), OS X is enjoyable (& requires no further justification, although plenty could be given)!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ctrl-Opt-Del View Post
What a false dichotomy... It's infantile the way that some hardcore religious types selectively cherry-pick data to support an impression of Theist = Good, Atheist = Bad.

The problem with humans is not God (whether or not such a being exists), it's humans themselves!
Theologist and atheists would agree that God exists, if God was defined as a spiritual (not material) entity. No one is suggesting that God's existence can be proven or disproved through laboratory experiments. Such agreement, if formally acknowledged, could be a very useful step toward ending dangerous confrontations.

Ludwik

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kowalskil View Post
Theologist and atheists would agree that God exists, if God was defined as a spiritual (not material) entity. No one is suggesting that God's existence can be proven or disproved through laboratory experiments. Such agreement, if formally acknowledged, could be a very useful step toward ending dangerous confrontations.
That's a deeply problematic statement on two fronts. First, a theologist and an atheist would absolutely disagree on the existence of a god. In fact, the defining characteristic you use to dichotomize the two groups is based purely on a (dis)belief in a higher being. And knowing many atheists myself, I can tell you that disbelief in any god is absolute, spiritual or otherwise. Second, why should the groups have to agree on anything with regards to religion? Is it not possible for both groups to co-exist and find common ground including, but not limited to, the betterment of humanity and the conditions in which we exist?

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