Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. #1

    kowalskil's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 30, 2012
    Posts
    7
    Two kinds of morality
    TWO KINDS OF MORALITIES, MARXIST VERSUS THEOLOGICAL


    I am reading interesting comments about communist morality, in a book devoted to Judaism, published in 1975. The authors are two rabbis, D. Prager and J. Telushkin. A Christian theologian would probably make similar observations.

    Marxists and theologians, they write, "are both motivated by the desire to perfect the world and establish a utopia on earth. ... Both promote all-encompassing worldviews. But they diametrically oppose one another in almost every other way." The authors remind us that communists rejected "all morality derived from nonhuman [i.e. God] and nonclass concepts," as stated in 1920 by Lenin. ... "Marxist morality sanctions any act so long as that act was committed in the interest of [economic and political] class struggle." Nothing that Stalin, and Mao did was immoral, according to such ideology.

    Theologians, on the other hand, hold "that morality transcends economic, national, and individual interests." God's commandments are objective rather than subjective. Evil human acts are condemned, no matter what economic or political gains are derived from them. That is the essential difference. Greed in human nature, they emphasize, "may have helped create capitalism, but capitalism did not create greed in human nature."

    Theologians also deplore social injustice. But they reject brutal proletarian revolutions because "the roots of evil and injustice lie not in economics or society but in man himself." This has to do with the concept of freedom. "For Marxism, which conceives of the world in materialist terms, bondage is defined solely as servitude to external sources such as slave owners, capitalist bosses, or other forms of material inequality. Freedom is liberation from such servitude." People, as stated in the Communist Manifesto, written by Marx and Engels, must get rid of economic chains binding them. Then they will automatically cease to be evil.

    Theologians, on the other hand, see two kinds of liberation, from external and from internal bonds. "Once liberation from external servitude takes place, one must then liberate oneself from internal domination, the domination of one's life by passions, needs, irrationality and wants." The conflict between theologians and Marxists "is not economic, it is moral." Proletarian dictatorship was practiced in several countries; the results show that "when Marxist revolutionaries attain power they are at least as crual as their predecessors."

    Philosophical differences about morality, among different kinds of theologians, are minimal, as far as I know. But attempts to impose morality are not very successful. Why is it so? What can be done to improve the situation, to bring our reality a little closer to "utopia" dreams?

    Ludwik
    Ludwik Kowalski, Ph.D.
    Professor Emeritus
    Montclair State University, NJ

  2. #2

    toMACsh's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jul 30, 2009
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    5,992
    Specs:
    Mac Mini (Late 2014) 2.6GHz Intel Core i5 Memory: 8GB 1600MHz DDR3
    Sadly, evil will always inhabit the heart of man, or of some. If the simple Golden Rule was applied universally, there would be no evil.

  3. #3

    harryb2448's Avatar
    Member Since
    Nov 28, 2007
    Location
    Nambucca Heads Australia
    Posts
    21,199
    Specs:
    27" 5K iMac, 3.3GHz, 256GB Flash Storge, 16GB memory and OS X.11.3.
    Why?

    Human beings are human beings period. Hence all the pedophile problems in many major religions. There are good Communists same as good Christians and Muslims. Same with bad.
    Hang on to those original install discs like grim death! Using OS X.7 or later make a bootable USB thumb drive before running Installer!

  4. #4

    iggibar's Avatar
    Member Since
    Apr 20, 2009
    Location
    Cleveland
    Posts
    4,079
    Specs:
    4.1 Mac Pro. 15" MBP. 13" MBP. 17" PB. PM G5. iPhone 6S+ 64gb Gold. Apple Watch 42mm.
    Why are you trolling so many forums by posting/pasting the same EXACT thing?? You posted on many debate forums, war forums, us boards, and more, but somehow felt the need to post this on a computer/tech-related forum? Weird.
    “If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the thing itself but to your own estimate of it; and this you have the power to revoke at any moment.” Marcus Aurelius

  5. #5

    kowalskil's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 30, 2012
    Posts
    7
    Learning from replies
    Quote Originally Posted by iggibar View Post
    Why are you trolling so many forums by posting/pasting the same EXACT thing??
    Because I want to learn from people who know more than I know. Fortunately, Internet makes this possible.

    Ludwik
    Ludwik Kowalski, Ph.D.
    Professor Emeritus
    Montclair State University, NJ

  6. #6

    chscag's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 23, 2008
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas
    Posts
    47,121
    Specs:
    27" iMac i5, 3.2 GHz, iPad 3, iPhone 5c, iPhone 6+, 3 iPods, El Capitan
    @kowalskil

    Please limit your signature line in accordance with our forum guidelines. No free advertising of your works or other accomplishments are allowed. Thanks.

  7. #7

    kowalskil's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 30, 2012
    Posts
    7
    changing signature
    Quote Originally Posted by chscag View Post
    @kowalskil

    Please limit your signature line in accordance with our forum guidelines. No free advertising of your works or other accomplishments are allowed. Thanks.
    The signature has just been changed, as requested.

    Ludwik
    Ludwik Kowalski, Ph.D.
    Professor Emeritus
    Montclair State University, NJ

  8. #8

    chscag's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 23, 2008
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas
    Posts
    47,121
    Specs:
    27" iMac i5, 3.2 GHz, iPad 3, iPhone 5c, iPhone 6+, 3 iPods, El Capitan
    Noted. Thanks.

  9. #9

    toMACsh's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jul 30, 2009
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    5,992
    Specs:
    Mac Mini (Late 2014) 2.6GHz Intel Core i5 Memory: 8GB 1600MHz DDR3
    Quote Originally Posted by harryb2448 View Post
    Why?
    What?

  10. #10

    XJ-linux's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jul 02, 2007
    Location
    Going Galt...
    Posts
    3,440
    Specs:
    MacBookAir5,2:10.9.5-MacMini3,1:10.9.5-iPhone6,1:8.4.1
    Quote Originally Posted by kowalskil View Post
    What can be done to improve the situation, to bring our reality a little closer to "utopia" dreams?
    There. Edited out the fluff. Now I'm a bit closer to Utopia. I don't like people setting me up to play games built around custom goal posts they themselves erected.

    Hey, maybe there's something to be gotten (towards reaching Utopia) from that?

    Never judge a man, untill you have walked a mile in his shoes...
    That way you'll be a mile away from him, and you'll have his shoes.

  11. #11

    Ctrl-Opt-Del's Avatar
    Member Since
    Sep 14, 2011
    Location
    Romford, Essex, England, GB
    Posts
    313
    Specs:
    iPad Air, WiFi & 4G, 16GB
    What a false dichotomy... It's infantile the way that some hardcore religious types selectively cherry-pick data to support an impression of Theist = Good, Atheist = Bad.

    The problem with humans is not God (whether or not such a being exists), it's humans themselves!
    For my purposes as an engineering undergraduate; Windows is respectable (& generally necessary), Linux is admirable (& often useful), OS X is enjoyable (& requires no further justification, although plenty could be given)!

  12. #12

    kowalskil's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 30, 2012
    Posts
    7
    God ? (was "Two kinds of morality")
    Quote Originally Posted by Ctrl-Opt-Del View Post
    What a false dichotomy... It's infantile the way that some hardcore religious types selectively cherry-pick data to support an impression of Theist = Good, Atheist = Bad.

    The problem with humans is not God (whether or not such a being exists), it's humans themselves!
    Theologist and atheists would agree that God exists, if God was defined as a spiritual (not material) entity. No one is suggesting that God's existence can be proven or disproved through laboratory experiments. Such agreement, if formally acknowledged, could be a very useful step toward ending dangerous confrontations.

    Ludwik
    Ludwik Kowalski, Ph.D.
    Professor Emeritus
    Montclair State University, NJ

  13. #13

    vansmith's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 19, 2008
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    19,742
    Specs:
    2012 13" MBP (2.5 i5, 8GB)
    Quote Originally Posted by kowalskil View Post
    Theologist and atheists would agree that God exists, if God was defined as a spiritual (not material) entity. No one is suggesting that God's existence can be proven or disproved through laboratory experiments. Such agreement, if formally acknowledged, could be a very useful step toward ending dangerous confrontations.
    That's a deeply problematic statement on two fronts. First, a theologist and an atheist would absolutely disagree on the existence of a god. In fact, the defining characteristic you use to dichotomize the two groups is based purely on a (dis)belief in a higher being. And knowing many atheists myself, I can tell you that disbelief in any god is absolute, spiritual or otherwise. Second, why should the groups have to agree on anything with regards to religion? Is it not possible for both groups to co-exist and find common ground including, but not limited to, the betterment of humanity and the conditions in which we exist?
    Important Links: Community Guidelines : Use the reputation system if you've been helped.
    M-F Blog :: Write for the blog
    Writing a Quality Post

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. All kinds of problems
    By RobW in forum OS X - Operating System
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 01-19-2009, 09:04 PM
  2. The Morality of Downloading...
    By ApeironDecay in forum Schweb's Lounge
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 04-09-2008, 04:35 AM
  3. Ibook that has all kinds of problems
    By RBWare83 in forum Apple Notebooks
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-25-2004, 01:14 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •