03-15-2012, 04:19 PM

Ok, so I am a comp sci student and was looking at applying for a job at an Apple store because nobody in the store I just visited had any idea about anything and could not help answer simple questions for me. However, I am a developer and one of the guys working at the store told me that anything that he would program is the property of Apple for up to two years after he quit. How is it that this is possible? Anything for up to two years? If this is true, no wonder they cannot find people that are knowledgeable to work at these stores...

03-15-2012, 04:21 PM

Thread moved to more appropriate forum. Please read before posting in Rumors & Reports.

03-15-2012, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by footballdude2k3

...I am a developer and one of the guys working at the store told me that anything that he would program is the property of Apple for up to two years after he quit. How is it that this is possible? Anything for up to two years? If this is true, no wonder they cannot find people that are knowledgeable to work at these stores...

This is actually a common practice in many industries (not just the computer software industry). But a further detail is...you cannot go to work for a "competitor company". So this 2-year rule may not always apply...depending what company you are leaving...and which company you're going to work for next.

All companies may not do this...but then many do. If this is a concern...then you need to be very careful who you work for (read the fine print).

Many times if someone is graduating from college...and the choice is ZERO income or $75,000+/year...sometimes this "2 year rule" is not so important!

- Nick

03-15-2012, 04:36 PM

It isn't true. There you have been told.

But it is true ~ normal commercial business practice to protect copyright etc.

03-15-2012, 04:36 PM

That I completely understand about most companies having this, but the difference is, if I was working in an Apple store, that is essentially retail, whereas if I was a developer for Apple I have access to a lot of coding. IMHO, it is ridiculous that if I stopped working somewhere and was in no way introduced to anything that I was doing that 18 months later if I made a game for the iPad that Apple would get all of the profits.

03-15-2012, 04:48 PM

That's pretty standard in the industry.

03-15-2012, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by footballdude2k3

That I completely understand about most companies having this, but the difference is, if I was working in an Apple store, that is essentially retail, whereas if I was a developer for Apple I have access to a lot of coding.

Yes...this should make a big difference (a retail role vs. a developer role with Apple)...and probably does in many companies.

But remember...Apple is a VERY VERY VERY secretive company...and so they may expand this 2 year policy to all roles (or more roles than is normal with other companies).

I've read stories about folks at Apple how they could be fired for leaking ANY sort of info (Steve Jobs was VERY strict about this). This is Apple's right as a company...they can do what they want.

- Nick

03-15-2012, 07:04 PM

And if you want to know why they are secretive look at the copied iPhones and iPads on the market.

03-15-2012, 11:41 PM

I'd have a hard time believing that was true at the retail level. You're not coding on Apple time or using Apple resources.

03-16-2012, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by BrianLachoreVPI

I'd have a hard time believing that was true at the retail level. You're not coding on Apple time or using Apple resources.

I'm just thinking employees, even in retail, would receive more information on products and new releases than others outside of Apple. People could use that to their advantage. So I'm thinking it's legit to have this rule.

03-16-2012, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by dekan

I'm just thinking employees, even in retail, would receive more information on products and new releases than others outside of Apple. People could use that to their advantage. So I'm thinking it's legit to have this rule.

..or, it could simply be that it's easier to implement a single policy. I don't know.

03-16-2012, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by footballdude2k3

That I completely understand about most companies having this, but the difference is, if I was working in an Apple store, that is essentially retail, whereas if I was a developer for Apple I have access to a lot of coding. IMHO, it is ridiculous that if I stopped working somewhere and was in no way introduced to anything that I was doing that 18 months later if I made a game for the iPad that Apple would get all of the profits.

I have a good mind to neg-rep everyone who's telling you this is 'standard practice'... it's not.

If you work at an Apple Store, selling iPhones and doing warehouse duties, but your spare time you're coding games for the iPad and want to sell them on the App store, they not would take that from you or own it.

If, however, you're working at Apple HQ in R&D, and then after you left using your inside knowledge to create APIs or technologies that benefited from your time there, that would be something they'd prevent.

Whoever is telling you this stuff is clueless, and the people on the thread saying it's normal are perhaps misunderstanding what you're actually saying.

03-16-2012, 04:59 PM

By the way, I was joking about the neg rep... thanks to whoever beat me to it!

03-16-2012, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by Zoolook

I have a good mind to neg-rep everyone who's telling you this is 'standard practice'... it's not.

If you work at an Apple Store, selling iPhones and doing warehouse duties, but your spare time you're coding games for the iPad and want to sell them on the App store, they not would take that from you or own it.

If, however, you're working at Apple HQ in R&D, and then after you left using your inside knowledge to create APIs or technologies that benefited from your time there, that would be something they'd prevent.

Whoever is telling you this stuff is clueless, and the people on the thread saying it's normal are perhaps misunderstanding what you're actually saying.

Hey buddy...remember what I mentioned previously & below:

Originally Posted by pigoo3

Yes...this should make a big difference (a retail role vs. a developer role with Apple)...and probably does in many companies.

But remember...Apple is a VERY VERY VERY secretive company...and so they may expand this 2 year policy to all roles (or more roles than is normal with other companies).

I've read stories about folks at Apple how they could be fired for leaking ANY sort of info (Steve Jobs was VERY strict about this). This is Apple's right as a company...they can do what they want.

When I was saying that this 2 year confidentiality agreement thing was fairly common...I was talking about many medium to large corporations...and primarily talking about folks who are working in roles where they are in product development, engineering, marketing, or some other "sensitive" position...where they may have access to sensitive/competitive/secret information.

The OP asked a simple question...and so I think most folks were responding with a quick simple answer...that this sort of policy does commonly exist in many companies & in many different industries. It's just the roles in a company where this policy usually applies is what's in question.

I agree with you that "normally" folks working in a warehouse, on the production floor of a manufacturing assembly line, or in this case a retail sales position would normally not be included in this 2 year policy.

But with Apple being such a secretive company...maybe they have extended this 2 year policy to actual retail store employees (which would not be normal in other companies)...like Walmart, Target, Best Buy, etc.

Also...many times this policy states that you cannot work for a "competitor company" for two years. So it's the "competitor companies" that would have to be identified specifically. Since we are talking about computers...this could extend to any sort of computer hardware or software development companies.

Also...this policy may be different for different Apple employees at the Apple Stores. For example...it may be different for the retail sales folks versus the "Genius" or tech-support folks (who may have access to more proprietary info).

Lastly...we are relying on what the OP mentioned that they heard from one Apple Store employee. Who even knows if this Apple Store employee even 100% understands how (and if) this policy affects them.

I can guarantee...MANY folks who are included in this sort of policy DON'T KNOW IT...until the day that they are leaving the company...and are meeting with the company HR folks. Who then remind them about the policy...and then the "separating" employee is SHOCKED!!! Especially if they already landed & accepted a new position WITH a competitor company!!! OHH BOY...TROUBLE here!!!

Many folks...experienced & inexperienced (but especially folks graduating from college, new to the workforce, and getting their first "real job")...don't always read all the fine print on all the documents that are signed on the first day (or first week of employment)...and may miss the details regarding this 2 year non-competitive agreement.

They're just excited to have a job after college...with hopefully a big fat paycheck!

- Nick

03-19-2012, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by footballdude2k3

Ok, so I am a comp sci student and was looking at applying for a job at an Apple store because nobody in the store I just visited had any idea about anything and could not help answer simple questions for me. However, I am a developer and one of the guys working at the store told me that anything that he would program is the property of Apple for up to two years after he quit. How is it that this is possible? Anything for up to two years? If this is true, no wonder they cannot find people that are knowledgeable to work at these stores...

Standard practice.

A similar example would be where I'm a university student studying Aeronautical Engineering, but if I - say - invent a new computer chip while I'm here I would have to give my university some credit, include them on the patent, and share some of the profits with them; even though it had nothing to do with my degree or anything they'd actually taught me.

Similarly, if I won a Nobel prize for astrophysics I'd still have to give them credit even though they don't even have an astrophysics department!

(Ok, I know those are grandiose examples, but I was just trying to make a point )

Basically, a minority stake (about 10%) in all my intellectual property - whether relevant to my studies or not - for the duration of my degree was one of the terms of the contract I signed to study here. A contract of employment with Apple would include similar terms.