06-08-2011, 08:44 PM

Yesterday, myself and a friend - who is one of the Tech Support guys at a London university - got onto the topic of Macs while chatting on IM. He waxed somewhat lyrical on exactly why he has so little love for them, and - while I made a fair few points in their favour - there was still much that he stood-by.

Just to make it clear, I'm not posting this to troll or offend, I'm just genuinely curious to hear your responses & opinions on what I should say to him the next time the topic comes up...

Here, in a suitably edited & consolidated form, is what he had to say:

I hate Macs...

As to why...

I don't think much of the OS; it's just a UNIX-derivative like FreeBSD with a restrictive GUI dumped on top of it (if I want a UNIX-like kernel with a custom shell I’ll go with Linux). The hardware is all blow and no go; last year's technology for triple the price it's worth. Restrictive upgrade potential, locked into using (expensive) Apple components for EVERYTHING - even HDDs and RAM. Instant incompatibility with 99% of other computers on the planet; Macs prefer their own file system - in PC country you just plug and go. Plus blind faith in the benevolence of Apple, against any common sense appraisal of the company, on the part of the majority of the users...

Mac Users: Desperate to set themselves apart from the mainstream because to be a part of the mainstream is to be a mass-market sheep... But not realising that they’re simply aligning themselves with a different flock...

I have little time for devotees. Particularly devotees who claim they are because they're “smarter”. No. Jumping on the anti-bandwagon PURELY to not be on the bandwagon itself is being led all the same; except that instead of going with the better platform, or the most versatile platform, or the platform which suits your needs best, you're going with the *other* platform just to be a part of a "cool" minority.

I guess it's reassuring for some people to think that it's been made impossible to do anything wrong... But, they fail to realise that anything that's designed to be idiot-proof is, by definition, designed for use by idiots!

"It's for your own good!" That's the Apple motto. You're not using the Mac, Steve Jobs is. You ask him if he'll let you do the things you want to do, and he says "no, but tell me what you want and I'll do it for you, unless it's something I don't like in which case you can't do that", which some people like; if you don't know how to do it and what you want to do is simple OS X does it for you, but if you want to do anything else? No chance...

It's sad really...

But, still, I can't really fault Steve Jobs for taking advantage of those people... I'd sell people £300 of hardware & an essentially free OS just with a proprietary GUI for £2000 if I could! I'll admit, form a purely aesthetic point of view, that Macs look nice; and in their favour the hardware is immaculately built; but that's not the reason to choose a computer! Even given the comparison of set-up procedures:

Mac: Take out of box, plug keyboard into monitor, plug into wall socket, turn on. Done.

PC: Take base unit out of box, take monitor out of box, take mouse and keyboard out of box, take sixteen power bricks out of box, connect everything to everything else, plug in seventeen 4-way outlets, turn on, wait four hours. Done.

I just honestly cannot see the long-term appeal. It's about recognising when X platform is more appropriate than Y. Genuinely evaluating something, based on its merits, rather than saying "WAH!!! MAC RULEZ PC IS FOR L00Z3R$!!!1!” I think of myself as somebody who knows what he's talking about to a certain extent; and even with intimate familiarity with the problems that Windows and PCs have in general... I'll ALWAYS pick Windows and x86 architecture.

So, I'm sure there'll be plenty of dissenting points of view; let's hear 'em!

06-08-2011, 09:01 PM

Just say to him, "don't you have better things to do like scan for viruses, or are you just waiting for your system to boot?"

06-08-2011, 09:11 PM

locked into using (expensive) Apple components for EVERYTHING - even HDDs and RAM.

wrong

Instant incompatibility with 99% of other computers on the planet

wrong

That is stupid and narrow minded. ask him to explain how this works. I havent had a single incompatibility with a PC, or any other computer system for that matter. In fact, I have had more problems with windows.

I think of myself as somebody who knows what he's talking about to a certain extent;

obviously not, if he thinks Apple use "proprietary" hard drives, and that they are "incompatible" with "99.99%" of computers (bearing in mind that Macs actually make up a fair proportion of that base anyway, and of course, all Macs are made incompatible with eachother.)

I guess it's reassuring for some people to think that it's been made impossible to do anything wrong... But, they fail to realise that anything that's designed to be idiot-proof is, by definition, designed for use by idiots!

You mean to say He hates it because it's easy to use? if theres anything more idiotic than that i'd like to hear it.

I'll ALWAYS pick Windows and x86 architecture.

Again, misinformed. OSX is also x86/x64.

Your friend who "knows what he is talking about" needs to wake up and smell the coffee. And maybe read a few more books/articles/magazines about what a Mac actually is before he judges the people who use them as "idiots", when it seems perfectly clear that the only idiot in this argument is himself.

/RANT
/SARCASM
/THREAD

06-08-2011, 09:20 PM

As much as I approach these types of debate with apathy, I can't let some of the ignorance here go without comment.

The hardware is all blow and no go; last year's technology for triple the price it's worth.

That's just not true. Show him some price comparisons or better yet, get him to prove this since the burden is on the individual making the claim.

Restrictive upgrade potential, locked into using (expensive) Apple components for EVERYTHING - even HDDs and RAM.

That must be why I had Corsair RAM (old RAM - forget what I have now) and a WD HD. Also, you could get him to show you a link with Apple branded HDs and RAM and watch him come up empty.

Instant incompatibility with 99% of other computers on the planet

You have to love ambiguous statements.

Macs prefer their own file system - in PC country you just plug and go.

Windows prefers its own filesystem too. And how are Macs not plug and play?

Plus blind faith in the benevolence of Apple, against any common sense appraisal of the company, on the part of the majority of the users...

There are plenty of Windows fanboys and plenty of Apple users who are critical when they make announcements (the IRC channel during the WWDC keynote is evidence of this).

Mac Users: Desperate to set themselves apart from the mainstream because to be a part of the mainstream is to be a mass-market sheep... But not realising that they’re simply aligning themselves with a different flock...

What? He's making the assumption that all Mac users are "hipsters." This is also coming from the guy who implied that he would use Linux which is more obscure.

I have little time for devotees. Particularly devotees who claim they are because they're “smarter”.

Isn't that what he's doing right now? Isn't he implying that he's "smarter" because he made the right choice in dedicating himself to the Windows platform?

No. Jumping on the anti-bandwagon PURELY to not be on the bandwagon itself is being led all the same; except that instead of going with the better platform, or the most versatile platform, or the platform which suits your needs best, you're going with the *other* platform just to be a part of a "cool" minority.

He again assumes that people use Macs because they're "hip" or "cool". He also assumes that Macs are less versatile (whatever this might mean in this context) and an inferior platform in every single instance.

I guess it's reassuring for some people to think that it's been made impossible to do anything wrong... But, they fail to realise that anything that's designed to be idiot-proof is, by definition, designed for use by idiots!

This one is too easy. I'll let you be creative with this one.

"It's for your own good!" That's the Apple motto.

Source?

You're not using the Mac, Steve Jobs is. You ask him if he'll let you do the things you want to do, and he says "no, but tell me what you want and I'll do it for you, unless it's something I don't like in which case you can't do that", which some people like; if you don't know how to do it and what you want to do is simple OS X does it for you, but if you want to do anything else? No chance...

Ask him how OS X does this precisely. See if he has any actual examples to see if he knows what he's saying. I bet he has no actual examples.

It's sad really...

So is his anger in the unsubstantiated argument he's making. It's also sad that he has to demean your choice for absolutely no productive reason.

But, still, I can't really fault Steve Jobs for taking advantage of those people...

Now he's just calling you an idiot (as he implied above with the "designed for idiots" comment).

I'll admit, form a purely aesthetic point of view, that Macs look nice; and in their favour the hardware is immaculately built; but that's not the reason to choose a computer!

I agree that aesthetics are not a reason to buy a computer. That said, I'd love to know what his reason for buying a specific brand is.

I just honestly cannot see the long-term appeal.

You can't see the appeal in using a Windows machine. What makes him anymore right than you?

It's about recognising when X platform is more appropriate than Y.

He is once again assuming that the Windows platform is somehow inherently better than the Mac in every context for every person.

I'll ALWAYS pick Windows and x86 architecture.

Good for you. (If you want to be really picky, note that the Mac is built on the x86 architecture).

I've been really pedantic with his argument as you can tell. You probably don't have to respond that way.

As with every argument such as this, if you somehow get sucked in, don't spend time trying to justify why you chose the Mac especially if people approach the argument in such a (what appears to be) hostile manner. Make him prove, with evidence (this is what gets people), why his argument should persuade you that you're wrong/he's right.

06-08-2011, 09:47 PM

Here's the most suitable response to people like this: IGNORE IT

06-08-2011, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by Kash

Here's the most suitable response to people like this: IGNORE IT

Exactly what I was thinking...great answer!

- Nick

06-08-2011, 09:51 PM

Hypocrite.

That is all.

06-08-2011, 09:59 PM

I agree arguments like this are basically pointless. I am (I believe) a relatively intelligent consumer and I have decided Macs are worth the money. It's my money, my use criteria and my call.
Who is anyone else to judge.

But, on a somewhat related note. What percentage of IT professionals do we have on this forum? I ask because I saw a brief article a couple of years ago that stated substantial numbers of IT were switching to Macs for their personal machines.

06-08-2011, 10:11 PM

excuse me while I use vmware to book windows 7 on my apple.

Also when Im tired of this MBP laptop in 2-3 years I will enjoy selling it for 70% of its value.

I have some Dell Precision laptops I am reselling, those cost $1200-$1500 new I think. They sell on ebay and craigslist (if im lucky) for about $250-$350. quite a price drop after a few years.....

who is the idiot now? my new Apple will cost me an extra few hundred, unless he buys the garbage entry level windows laptop running ultra celerons hes going to be looking at several hundred.

stick an extra few years on there and watch the price comparisons again. The original MBPs are worth at least $500 I think.....

06-08-2011, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by Kash

Here's the most suitable response to people like this: IGNORE IT

Normally I'd agree but once someone says, "I think of myself as somebody who knows what he's talking about" after demonstrating utter lack of knowledge, it's hard not to point out the flaws (admittedly, this could be the academic in me). That and the OP is already engaged in the debate.

06-08-2011, 10:16 PM

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I just don't see that this thread adds any value to the forum. It might even be someone useful if the writer of the diatribe posted it, but he (she?) is not even here to contribute to the discussion. Regardless, the Mac vs. PC thing has been done to death both here and elsewhere and at the end of the day, doesn't serve any purpose whatsoever. This is roughly akin to a Ford fan bringing his Chevy fan friend's concerns into a Ford forum. What does it accomplish?

Don't like Macs? Good for you. Different strokes for different folks - no one is making you buy one. I can certainly understand feeling compelled to correct ignorance, but even that's not being accomplished with this second-hand story.

06-08-2011, 10:34 PM

I got the same negativity from some friends when I started driving VWs over 12 years ago

Just ignore it!

I find that most apple hate comes from ignorance or jealousy just like everything else in life

06-08-2011, 11:13 PM

I find something along the lines of "u mad bro?" tends to get the response I most enjoy out of these types.

06-08-2011, 11:21 PM

Just tell him he is a wanker and look for better 'friends'.

06-08-2011, 11:59 PM

lol. As usual Harry gets right to the heart of the matter. Nice job mate.