03-31-2011, 11:11 AM

I really dislike reading on Kindles and other similar products, even though it wastes so few resources and is much more practical compared to the real thing. I feel like a grumpy old luddite who can't accept the progress of civilization and the change of his universe. Anyone else faced with the same dilemma?

03-31-2011, 11:25 AM

No..this is the direction that we are headed in..the Kindle, Nook, Sony Reader are just the beginning of where this is going to take us.

Most students are already using iPads as a note taking device in universities, and with progress being made in foldable LCD's and so on..the things we've seen in various futuristic Sci-Fi films will be a matter of reality in the not so far future..

"Resistance is futile"..

03-31-2011, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by Virgeist

...even though it wastes so few resources and is much more practical compared to the real thing.

Don't forget...the manufacturing of devices like the Kindle, iPad, etc...are not exactly as environmentally friendly or "green" as you may think.

You have to consider:

1. The resources that go into the manufacturing of the parts (metal, plastics, glass, etc.)...remembering that plastics come from oil (or recycled plastic), iPads use aluminum...which is a VERY energy intensive metal to produce (recycling) helps.

2. Of course the factories that manufacture eBook devices need to use energy (electricity, coal, hydro, oil, etc.)

3. The energy needed to ship the products from China & elsewhere...where they are sold.

4. What about all the energy used & paper shuffled about during the 9-12 month design, development, prototype, and manufacturing stages of a new device?

5. What about the electricity needed to run these devices???...it takes zero energy to read a good old-fashioned book in the sunlight! Imagine how much electricity it takes to run 10's of millions of iPads throughout the world...year after year!!!

6. Lastly...one VERY big factor that sometimes folks forget about is...many consumers that buy these devices like to have the latest & greatest. So where do the old iPad 1's or iPad 2's go when the iPad 3 comes out?...hopefully into the hands of new owners. But...what about the resources that go into the iPad 1, iPad 2, and eventually the iPad 3? It's not like Apple makes the iPad 1...and then 10 years later comes out with the iPad 2 (which would require much fewer resources). If Apple & others keep making new models of each of these devices each year...that's a lot of resources. And eventually when the iPad 12 comes out...a lot of those iPad 1's & iPad's are going to end up in landfills.

I'm not saying that the paper & printing industries don't use a heck of a lot of natural resources. And I'm also not saying that I'm some sort of "green freak" or "super environmentalist". What I am saying is...these electronic devices that in part are supposed to help us eliminate the need for paper & other resources are NOT as "green" as one would like to think.

- Nick

03-31-2011, 12:59 PM

Nope, not disgusted in the least.

03-31-2011, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by pigoo3

Don't forget...the manufacturing of devices like the Kindle, iPad, etc...are not exactly as environmentally friendly or "green" as you may think.

But making all the dead tree books are not exactly green either.
Pollution, loss of trees, destruction of native habitat, the ink making process is pretty toxic too. As is the air pollution from transporting the finished books all over the world.

So you buy a dead tree book or a e-reader and both are not so environmentally friendly. But at least with the e-reader you're not cutting down forests. So that's a plus I guess.

03-31-2011, 01:12 PM

Not disgusted in the least. I'm not interested in a Kindle myself, and don't think the pixel density is high enough to enjoy reading on the iPad. If/when the iPad goes the Retina Display route, I will probably dive in then.

03-31-2011, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by Virgeist

I feel like a grumpy old luddite who can't accept the progress of civilization and the change of his universe.

You don't have to be old to be a grumpy luddite.

My youngest, who is a librarian, is also disturbed by the potential impact of ebooks on paper publishing.

On the otherhand, her dad (yours truly) has not willingly read a hard copy book since buying the iPad. I will be delighted to see my paper disappear to be replaced by electronic versions.

03-31-2011, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by the8thark

But making all the dead tree books are not exactly green either.
Pollution, loss of trees, destruction of native habitat, the ink making process is pretty toxic too. As is the air pollution from transporting the finished books all over the world.

Exactly what I mentioned in the last paragraph of my post.

Originally Posted by the8thark

So you buy a dead tree book or a e-reader and both are not so environmentally friendly. But at least with the e-reader you're not cutting down forests. So that's a plus I guess.

This (of course) is a very BIG plus. Here in the United States there's a lot more "managed forests/managed logging" than there used to be...where fast growing species of trees are planted & harvested just like corn, wheat, rice, etc. So hopefully much less logging of "old growth" forests. Add to this the recycling of paper...and hopefully this has had a big impact on existing forests.

- Nick

03-31-2011, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Razormac

You don't have to be old to be a grumpy luddite.

My youngest, who is a librarian, is also disturbed by the potential impact of ebooks on paper publishing.

On the otherhand, her dad (yours truly) has not willingly read a hard copy book since buying the iPad. I will be delighted to see my paper disappear to be replaced by electronic versions.

My wife is a library branch manager and she feels the same way. She prefers real ink on real paper, but for me, I have been reading more than ever in electronic format. I started out reading on my iPod Touch and "upgraded" to an iPad because my arms were getting too short!

At least I don't have to worry about her stealing my iPad!

03-31-2011, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by pigoo3

So hopefully much less logging of "old growth" forests.

And for this we can only cross our fingers.
But it will never stop unfortunately, as long as there are the rich who want those big beautiful pieces of furniture and interiors of some cars like the Bently has.
Even here in Australia then down to the stunning Tasmania they cant stop the Old Growth Logging and the whole state is one big 'Greenie'. Im not a greenie by a long measure but i try to support the greenies on this one.
So so sad

03-31-2011, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by 1991-C4

I started out reading on my iPod Touch and "upgraded" to an iPad because my arms were getting too short!

Ha ha...I know that feeling!

My arms are "too short" for the iPad, my 17" MacBook Pro, and my Mac Pro's 24" display!!

- Nick

03-31-2011, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by TattooedMac

And for this we can only cross our fingers.
But it will never stop unfortunately, as long as there are the rich who want those big beautiful pieces of furniture and interiors of some cars like the Bently has.
Even here in Australia then down to the stunning Tasmania they cant stop the Old Growth Logging and the whole state is one big 'Greenie'. Im not a greenie buy a long measure but i try to support the greenies on this one.
So so sad

I'm not a greenie either. But most of the people (not all obviously) I see pushing back against environmental laws can afford to have their own private green spaces. I'm all for jobs and growth, but not at the cost of having a decent world to live in.

03-31-2011, 02:39 PM

I agree in general, i would much rather have a full powered laptop that can do anything, but you have to face the fact that most people use computers for different reasons, that dont require the resources that my uses do.

i think the iPad and kindle are still very useful and have their uses, in the same way an ipod does.

03-31-2011, 05:55 PM

All manufacturing processes create some form of pollution.

The answer is to move back into caves, have no fires eating raw meat, fruit and vegetables, and wearing uncured animal skins as clothing. Not very exciting is it?

03-31-2011, 06:33 PM

I don't normally find eBooks to be particularly compelling, but to each their own...

I don't travel a whole lot, but just got back from a business trip a few weeks ago and definitely noticed a fair amount of folks enjoying their various eReaders. I can definitely see the appeal of being able to take a few books easily in a carry-on without the bulk of actually carrying paper copies.