12-19-2010, 03:42 AM

Sweden fights Assange bail as Michael Moore offers to host WikiLeaks
Sweden fights Assange bail as Michael Moore offers to host WikiLeaks

They should just ship him back to Australia. That is his home. The world is just mad that all their dirty little secrets were found out by him and they want to shut him up. Personally I think him and his wikileaks are amazing. I'm glad the little person is standing up and blowing the whistle on the corruption in the world.

12-19-2010, 12:51 PM

Releasing classified info and exposing corruption are two different things. I'd support him if all he was doing was exposing corruption, but releasing information that can get people killed is a bit over the top. That being said though, he didn't access the info personally it was given to him. The access point should have been cut off long ago but it was not. That's just dumb.

12-19-2010, 01:25 PM

If everybody didn't panic about this then it would have been less of a big deal.

Really, so far it has been some released diplomatic gossip, a few off the cuff remarks, but nothing earth shaking.

If they had revealed that the Isrealis were behind 9/11, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is a secret cross-dresser, or revealed the secret alien base underneath the Antarctic ice then that would have been major.

12-19-2010, 02:41 PM

You can't expect panic just yet when all they've released is just the tip of an iceberg's tip! I don't think anything as demeaning as the government thought was going to be released, has been released yet. If they released something about 9/11, it's going to be something that the government doesn't want the people to know.

I'm surprised that the us gov hasn't called any of these current releases fake.

12-19-2010, 03:19 PM

The guy is a jerk. I hope Michael Moore eats him.

12-19-2010, 03:30 PM

Who is releasing all these secret cables. Assange is only the vehicle surely the security breaches are within the Defense and/or State Departments?

12-19-2010, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by harryb2448

Who is releasing all these secret cables. Assange is only the vehicle surely the security breaches are within the Defense and/or State Departments?

Pfc. Bradley Manning is the person who has been charged thus far. He faces 52 years if convicted of the "leaking info" charges and death if the Treason charges are eventually filed. Wikileaks has not identified him as their source(s), but they have offered to contribute to his defense. Thus far they have contributed nothing.

12-19-2010, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by XJ-linux

The guy is a jerk. I hope Michael Moore eats him.

Well with what MM is into, i think these 2 jokers will get on like a house on fire...

@ Harry Mate i agree, i think the governments need to dig deeper to find where the real leaks are coming from

12-19-2010, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by baggss

Releasing classified info and exposing corruption are two different things. I'd support him if all he was doing was exposing corruption, but releasing information that can get people killed is a bit over the top. That being said though, he didn't access the info personally it was given to him. The access point should have been cut off long ago but it was not. That's just dumb.

It's all about spin. In one light releasing it can get people killed. And in another light not releasing it can get people killed. And I'm sure the lawyers on both sides are working out the best way to spin the facts.

And if the leaks are getting out then I blame the governments and other groups for letting the leaks happen. They need to as said in other posts here, forget these silly lawsuits and find the real whistle blowers.

But to me this whole thing is trying to make governments accountable for their actions. For so long any wrongdoings of the worlds governments are swept under the carpet like they can do no wrong. In business if you do wrong you feel the consequences of this by no sales. But in government if one corrupt party up against another just as corrupt. So there is no really good government to vote for. So you need to blow the whistle to keep the government accountable to it's actions.

12-19-2010, 07:56 PM

Originally Posted by the8thark

It's all about spin. In one light releasing it can get people killed. And in another light not releasing it can get people killed. And I'm sure the lawyers on both sides are working out the best way to spin the facts.

Spin has exactly ZERO to do with it. Spin only comes into play when those who would see others get hurt by the improper use of information have it in their hands. It's classified information not intended for general public dissemination. I'd really like to see an explanation on how NOT releasing classified information is getting people killed. Most of the stuff he has is classified for a reason (not all though). If it is released to the people who NEED to know it, I'm not sure how that is putting anyones life in danger except those who's lives are put in danger by the very nature of their jobs.

Sure, some of the info is embarrassing to the US government (all Governments have this) and some of it is far more damaging and dangerous than a few red faces. The embarrassment only hurts the administration, the other stuff hurts folks who are not politically involved but may be negatively impacted by by someone with a vendetta.

I do agree about finding the source of the leaks. If you understood how the classified info system works you might realize just how hard that can be. If the Pfc they have in custody was the source, then it's done. There are other safeguards that have been put in place but frankly they took far to long to implement once they knew their was a problem with the system.

I don't see this having anything to do with corruption and I'm not sure what supposed corruption has been exposed by this. Airing dirty laundry isn't exposing corruption.

12-19-2010, 08:07 PM

More power to the guy and everyone else supporting it. Why are there secrets and spies anyway? Probably because if the general public knew what all went on they wouldn't put up with it. Its all just meant to make some people feel more important than others and makes everything more complicated than it should be. People can't get along and its kind of sad where we're headed. Glad someone at least attempts to get some truth out there before we don't have a chance and we never will know anything except what they want us to. Years ago before the media outlets were purchased to feed us b/s this would have been called investigative reporting.

12-19-2010, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by Lbatson21

Why are there secrets and spies anyway?

Um, a little thing called human nature?

You are assuming that all "classified" information must somehow be bad or destructive in nature. Far from it.

12-19-2010, 08:21 PM

Um, a little thing called human nature?

Maybe some humans nature...

You are assuming that all "classified" information must somehow be bad or destructive in nature. Far from it.

And you're assuming that I was assuming anything. I never said anything you just came up with and this is what causes most of the problems out there.

12-19-2010, 08:29 PM

If they can prove that an American conspired with a foreign national to obtain the documents and then release them to said foreign national, they can charge the American for treason and the foreign national with espionage. Believe it or not, this is viewed as legally different than a government employee merely stealing documents and just dumping them on some journalist unsolicited. These are capital crimes according to US Code and because these people have no apparent State sponsors, there would appear to be little of trade value in deferring prosecution. No, I don't mean trading a spy for a spy. I mean intelligence about an enemy or insight into their methods, motivations, trade-craft and structural coherence. He's a man without a haven right now.

Anyhow, I have to believe that since the cat is out of the bag as far as the leaks go, there is less motivation to show restraint as far as going full out on snagging these creeps, their employees and those who contributed safe haven, money and materiel to their efforts. I'm sure there is also every motivation to use the confusion, suspicion and paranoia to clean house relating to enemies foreign and domestic. Were it me, I'd probably spin it all and toss out some info I was dying to leak on an enemy, but couldn't leak due to a lack of deniability. Mr. Assange has presented himself as a great target to pin whatever on and let some unsavory types, other than my team, take the risk of sanctioning him. Maybe I could even put something out there with Mr. Assange's name attached, that would manipulate two of my enemies to start fighting each other and thus weaken them both in relation to myself. Al Qaeda -vs- Los Zetas anyone? Maybe leak something (true or false) to allow a weak leader to overcome a stronger leader within an organization of interest to make an easier to manage objective? When something like this drags you down, you can bring your enemies down to keep the relative advantage in your favor. Mr. Assange would make an excellent Lee Harvey.

12-19-2010, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by Lbatson21

Maybe some humans nature....

I'm sorry. I didn't realize that you were somehow superior to the rest of the human race.

Originally Posted by Lbatson21

And you're assuming that I was assuming anything. I never said anything you just came up with and this is what causes most of the problems out there.

Am I, or are you just trying to play it off like I'm the one who's misunderstanding here?

So you were not making assumptions? Ok. I had had hoped you were not as naive as you sound. Guess I was wrong.

Originally Posted by XJ-linux

If they can prove that an American conspired with a foreign national to obtain the documents and then release them to said foreign national, they can charge the American for treason and the foreign national with espionage. Believe it or not, this is viewed as legally different than a government employee merely stealing documents and just dumping them on some journalist unsolicited. These are capital crimes according to US Code and because these people have no apparent State sponsors, there would appear to be little of trade value in deferring prosecution. No, I don't mean trading a spy for a spy. I mean intelligence about an enemy or insight into their methods, motivations, trade-craft and structural coherence. He's a man without a haven right now.

Anyhow, I have to believe that since the cat is out of the bag as far as the leaks go, there is less motivation to show restraint as far as going full out on snagging these creeps, their employees and those who contributed safe haven, money and materiel to their efforts. I'm sure there is also every motivation to use the confusion, suspicion and paranoia to clean house relating to enemies foreign and domestic. Were it me, I'd probably spin it all and toss out some info I was dying to leak on an enemy, but couldn't leak due to a lack of deniability. Mr. Assange has presented himself as a great target to pin whatever on and let some unsavory types, other than my team, take the risk of sanctioning him. Maybe I could even put something out there with Mr. Assange's name attached, that would manipulate two of my enemies to start fighting each other and thus weaken them both in relation to myself. Al Qaeda -vs- Los Zetas anyone? Maybe leak something (true or false) to allow a weak leader to overcome a stronger leader within an organization of interest to make an easier to manage objective? When something like this drags you down, you can bring your enemies down to keep the relative advantage in your favor. Mr. Assange would make an excellent Lee Harvey.

That.