07-28-2010, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by vansmith

The Japanese kills thousands of dolphins - how is this different than the killing of presumably millions of cattle, chickens and pigs every year to feed people? What about hunting ducks, deer and other animals (not a hunter so I can't name more)? I'm also no lawyer but I've also been told that international law has absolutely no force. I've been told stories by a political science prof wherein companies and individuals have brought the Canadian government (or a provincial government) to the international court, won and had the government simply ignore the ruling (or vice versa).

I'm not necessarily pro-dolphin hunt but I have a hard time differentiating this from other hunting practices. If the hunt is cruel (something I don't believe in), it's the fault of the hunters and not the government.

The Japanese are targeting Tuna and the Dolphins are typically caught as a bi-catch as they swim within Tuna schools...so it's not intentional. The Dolphins are undesirable to them and simply discarded ( usually dead ). So really..ethics aside...it's a complete waste.

07-28-2010, 08:25 AM

I've been waiting to watch this for a while, I'm gonna pick it up when I get some time. Have you seen Sharkwater?...

07-29-2010, 01:21 PM

Isn't hunting a little different as in they don't sell the meat (for the most part, they eat most of the animal for food/themselves)?

07-29-2010, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by codda

The Japanese are targeting Tuna and the Dolphins are typically caught as a bi-catch as they swim within Tuna schools...so it's not intentional. The Dolphins are undesirable to them and simply discarded ( usually dead ). So really..ethics aside...it's a complete waste.

Actually they hunt dolphins and pilot whales for the meat.... so it isn't a waste, its just another food source.

Is it really any different from the way the US catches shrimp or lobsters? Aside from the fact that shrimp and lobsters look like bugs, they are both free roaming sea creatures being harvested for food.

07-29-2010, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by Doug b

It's actually a LOT different. Perhaps not on a moral level, but the difference lies in reproduction of the species. Dolphins and whales could be at risk for extinction and they're both extremely important for the sea's ecosystem in general.

On land, man breeds and raises cattle for food and the supply of such animals is nowhere near being extinct and find it hard to believe that they would ever be. When it is deer season, they are only (supposed to be) hunted then, and it's because there is an over population of such animals. And in case you weren't aware of this, these beautiful creatures can wreak havoc in terms of disease and other such things, and all in our very own back yards. It's not all about being a redneck and getting kicks from shooting an beautiful animal, so I'd suggest doing a bit of research on said topic, as you'd be surprised with what you'd learn.

I'm not saying I like the thought of animals being slaughtered, I actually hate it. I'm an animal lover, actually and wanted very badly to be a vet, but went the human route instead. There are many great documentaries one can watch which would heighten one's awareness about what goes on in the food industry, and would also likely turn ones stomach to the point of them never wanting to eat a chicken or red meat again. But when practiced correctly, "slaughter" for consumption doesn't have to mean blind cruelty. Though I'm sure that can be debated as well.

Point though... Dolphins and whales are a heck of a lot closer to the human food chain than a cow or chicken in that they ARE mammals for one, and two it has been proven that dolphins are able to understand and communicate with humans. They are very intelligent creatures. Not that it makes killing them any worse than another creature... But again, it's about the proliferation of the species. Think about how difficult to impossible it might be to reinvigorate the whale species! Whale breeding ? Dolphin breeding ?

We already have a tough enough time trying to repopulate some of the other endangered species on the earth which aren't in the ocean.. Heck, if it were possible, we'd be doing this with bees, which seem to be appearing less and less in the places we need them to be during certain seasons, but that's another long story.

But yeah... totally different, and that's more fact based, than it is opinion.

Doug

What he said ^

08-06-2010, 02:20 PM

IMHO it seems that this is a part of their culture. How long have they been doing this? I really don't see any reason to change the way they do things. I like eating meat, anything ranging from fish to deer to pig to whatever else I think tastes great. I personally have never eaten dolphin but if I had the chance to try it I would, along with any other tasty beast. Not trying to sound like a GA redneck, although I am, but if it tastes good, chow down! Just because we find something strange about this doesn't mean we should label it as bad. I didn't grow up as a part of a sea faring culture, most of the meat I consume comes from a farm of some sort. I'm sure that if Dolphins went extinct the ocean's ecosystem would promote something to take it's place in the food chain. Something goes extinct every second of every day yet the balance seems to stay preserved. As humans, at the top of the food chain of the entire planet, it's our privilege to consume whatever we want. Just my .02, and I know it won't make me any friends, but it's just what I think.

08-06-2010, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by willmeahl4

IMHO it seems that this is a part of their culture. How long have they been doing this? I really don't see any reason to change the way they do things. I like eating meat, anything ranging from fish to deer to pig to whatever else I think tastes great. I personally have never eaten dolphin but if I had the chance to try it I would, along with any other tasty beast. Not trying to sound like a GA redneck, although I am, but if it tastes good, chow down! Just because we find something strange about this doesn't mean we should label it as bad. I didn't grow up as a part of a sea faring culture, most of the meat I consume comes from a farm of some sort. I'm sure that if Dolphins went extinct the ocean's ecosystem would promote something to take it's place in the food chain. Something goes extinct every second of every day yet the balance seems to stay preserved. As humans, at the top of the food chain of the entire planet, it's our privilege to consume whatever we want. Just my .02, and I know it won't make me any friends, but it's just what I think.

Um.. I don't think you get it, at all. And thinking such as yours is a big reason as to why the health of our current overall ecosystem has been deteriorating as fast as it has been. But going along with your line of reasoning, you should also be aware that because of your attitude and lack of care on said topic, your kids-kids may not have the same "privilege" as you feel so entitled to.

There's nothing wrong with being a GA redneck, so long as you're an educated one. And no one is telling you what you should and shouldn't eat, only to be aware of the consequences of irresponsible and ILLEGAL poaching.
As far as the whole "it's part of their culture" thing goes, it also used to be in our culture to keep slaves. Heck, back to the beginning of time, pretty much every cast and creed has seen the likes of segregation and slavery in their "culture". Wanna tell me why it might be important to gain an new perspective and maybe even change certain things about one's culture ?

Or maybe you should move to somewhere in Africa, so that you can take in their cultural tradition of adult circumcision ? Hope you're at least attempting to see my point. Believe me, I'm not trying to sound like a "tree huggin' hippie" or anything. Some of those people totally creep me out. All I'm talking about is the connection there is between our existence and the rest of the ecosystem. Oh, and can you please give me an example of "species which go extinct every second of every day" ? Just curious.

Doug

08-06-2010, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by Doug b

I'm not trying to sound like a "tree huggin' hippie" or anything.

You failed, but at least it was an entertaining read.

08-06-2010, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by Doug b

Um.. I don't think you get it, at all. And thinking such as yours is a big reason as to why the health of our current overall ecosystem has been deteriorating as fast as it has been. But going along with your line of reasoning, you should also be aware that because of your attitude and lack of care on said topic, your kids-kids may not have the same "privilege" as you feel so entitled to.

There's nothing wrong with being a GA redneck, so long as you're an educated one. And no one is telling you what you should and shouldn't eat, only to be aware of the consequences of irresponsible and ILLEGAL poaching.
As far as the whole "it's part of their culture" thing goes, it also used to be in our culture to keep slaves. Heck, back to the beginning of time, pretty much every cast and creed has seen the likes of segregation and slavery in their "culture". Wanna tell me why it might be important to gain an new perspective and maybe even change certain things about one's culture ?

Or maybe you should move to somewhere in Africa, so that you can take in their cultural tradition of adult circumcision ? Hope you're at least attempting to see my point. Believe me, I'm not trying to sound like a "tree huggin' hippie" or anything. Some of those people totally creep me out. All I'm talking about is the connection there is between our existence and the rest of the ecosystem. Oh, and can you please give me an example of "species which go extinct every second of every day" ? Just curious.

Doug

If my children's children don't get to see dolphins I'll show 'em some photos, and I'm sure there will be plenty of meat around for them to eat.
It's too late I'm already circumcised. (TMI?) But if that's the way they do it then let them do it.
It's quite a big leap comparing slavery to eating dolphins. We as a species should treat each other in a way that will ensure our proliferation for eons to come.
I don't take part in any illegal poaching.
As far as extinction goes, I don't really know that to the extreme I stated is anything true, but I would think that it happens a lot more than most know, just not to some cute, cuddly animal.
I do get it, and I do see your point, but to think that we should be so worried about one or two species of dolphin living off the coast of Kaiji (spelling) is silly. There are plenty of other species of the animal in all sorts of places, all over the world, and I'm pretty sure the Japanese aren't on a "kill every dolphin, everywhere" kind of mission. Guess I should've said, If I can kill it, I can eat it. No one tries to stop the actions of any predator in earth's entire ecosystem, aside from man stopping man. Think about it, no one would make a stink if it was sharks wiping out dolphins, we'd just let it happen. If these folks are harvesting the animal, and using it in a responsible manner, why take issue with it?

08-07-2010, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by willmeahl4

Think about it, no one would make a stink if it was sharks wiping out dolphins, we'd just let it happen.

Actually, we'd find a way to trace it back to a man made cause that drove the sharks to eat the dolphins in the first place. Then we'd protest and scream and make heart felt pleas that no one really cared about. Then we'd get the lawyers involved.

In the end though, the Sharks would still eat the Dolphins.

08-08-2010, 06:03 AM

I felt very anguished when i was watching The Cove, My good opinion of someone (Japanese) once lost is lost for ever.

08-08-2010, 06:26 AM

Originally Posted by willmeahl4

I do get it, and I do see your point, but to think that we should be so worried about one or two species of dolphin living off the coast of Kaiji (spelling) is silly. There are plenty of other species of the animal in all sorts of places, all over the world, and I'm pretty sure the Japanese aren't on a "kill every dolphin, everywhere" kind of mission. Guess I should've said, If I can kill it, I can eat it. No one tries to stop the actions of any predator in earth's entire ecosystem, aside from man stopping man. Think about it, no one would make a stink if it was sharks wiping out dolphins, we'd just let it happen. If these folks are harvesting the animal, and using it in a responsible manner, why take issue with it?

Not sure that you do. There's a BIG difference between why humans kill whales/dolphins and why their NATURAL predatory stalkers kill them. We do not belong in the ocean's natural ecological food chain as such. Sharks killing dolphins, or dolphins killing other smaller fish for food, is part of the natural process which takes place in the ocean and balances things out.

Eating Mahi-Mahi or whale meat isn't a necessity, but more of a luxury. There are tons and tons of schools of tuna and smaller fish which over crowd the ocean, and their [very temporary-because they hatch new schools constantly] disappearance from there isn't impacting anything in a negative way. On the other hand, the same may not be said for the loss of whales or dolphins in the ocean. Larger mammals or fish such as these, play their part so as to maintain ecological order. Which in turn, does actually play a part in man kinds survival as well.

I'm not going to get into the how's or why's because you're a grown person whom is capable of reading and finding these things out on your own. If you choose to not do so, then that's your choice. Again, be all the redneck you'd like to be. Just don't use that as an excuse to be an ignorant one.

Doug

08-08-2010, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by willmeahl4

Something goes extinct every second of every day yet the balance seems to stay preserved. As humans, at the top of the food chain of the entire planet, it's our privilege to consume whatever we want.

Humans are also the smart enough to know when they are doing something bad to another species such as making them go extinct, when we have the option to preserve them for as long as humans live. But, with Japan, and other countries, money is too large of trade off.

Also, which species goes extinct every second? Where did you hear that?

08-08-2010, 09:05 AM

Oh yeah, and one more thing that I find very amusing about

As humans, at the top of the food chain of the entire planet, it's our privilege to consume whatever we want.

Try saying that to a hungry savage animal that lives in a jungle or forrest when it's just you and that beast one on one. No weapon in hand. Haha ! Food chain indeed.

Doug

08-08-2010, 03:48 PM

I may be a dumb redneck, but not dumb enough to go walking around the woods without a firearm.
We decimated the smallpox virus because we could even though as a species, it had the upper hand. The only meat I'd never eat is human, otherwise game on.